Jeremy Corbyn (Vol. 4)

[vaud]

kuro68k said:

It works well in other countries, there is no reason why it can't work well here... Except for the Tories who periodically get in and try to destroy it.

Depends on what you mean by "work"

The French intercity (TGV) system is pretty good, as is the French side of Eurostar. However, the rural services are rubbish.

The German system was good but has decayed rapidly in recent years (technically a private joint-stock company)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/20/trai...

The Swiss system is good but has also been plagued with problems (technically a special stock corporation whose shares are held by the Swiss Confederation and the Swiss cantons)
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/rolling-stock_swiss-t...


Which nationalised railway are you holding up as the model? (genuinely interested)

[AJL308]

Digga said:

pingu393 said:

R Mutt said:

V10leptoquark said:

R Mutt said:

I had a conversation with someone otherwise appearing of fair intellect who asked why I was concerned about corporation tax, as 'only large corporations pay it'

Typical of most Labour voters in their limited understanding of business..

Also had similar conversations.

The majority of the UK economy is made up from SMEs (small/medium enterprises) - such as the typical corner shop, the start ups, the self employed etc. etc. What some would call "real people" doing a "hard days work". Not the typical left wing notion that businesses must all be of the type that have the tax payer sitting in an ivory office throwing paper airplanes in to the bin whilst they laugh at the 'oppressed' salary level of the factory floor.

They sound like very typical 'working class' jobs, such as builders who are also self employed under the exact same company structure but we all know what Labour thinks of them (unless they're Polish)

Is it worth being a ltd company if you have <£20k profits? I'm a sole trader as it is a better option.

Depends what you sole trade in. If there is potential for any liability, the limited liability status affords you personal protection from having your own assets roped into any claim or dispute. If not then probably little to no advantage really.

I'd be extremely reluctant to run any sort of business these days without the protection of Limited Liability.There's just too much that can come back and bite you financially.

[Sway]

kuro68k said:

Remember that BR was actually decent at one time. The 70s brought problems, and the 80s killed it.

It works well in other countries, there is no reason why it can't work well here... Except for the Tories who periodically get in and try to destroy it.

Where has a politically controlled state railway that "works well"?

[P5BNij]

Sway said:

kuro68k said:

Remember that BR was actually decent at one time. The 70s brought problems, and the 80s killed it.

It works well in other countries, there is no reason why it can't work well here... Except for the Tories who periodically get in and try to destroy it.

Where has a politically controlled state railway that "works well"?

I worked for BR in the '80s, it was crap, as was the pay. The workload at the company I work for now has gone through the roof with all the investment taking place, in fact it's been getting better year on year since about 2012, we've taken on more staff too with several intakes each year.

[Flumpo]

Sway said:

kuro68k said:

Remember that BR was actually decent at one time. The 70s brought problems, and the 80s killed it.

It works well in other countries, there is no reason why it can't work well here... Except for the Tories who periodically get in and try to destroy it.

Where has a politically controlled state railway that "works well"?

What are the trains like in Hong Kong? I got on a bus and a ferry there once and they were fantastic. The bus had more TVs than an aeroplane!

I would warmly welcome their tax rates too.

[Munter]

Why are Jeremy's/Putin's twitter army so upset that Laura Kuenssberg has just inadvertently encouraged Labour supporters to go and vote tomorrow to make up for the postal vote shortfall...

[andymadmak]

kuro68k said:

Remember that BR was actually decent at one time. The 70s brought problems, and the 80s killed it.

It works well in other countries, there is no reason why it can't work well here... Except for the Tories who periodically get in and try to destroy it.

The reason why it will never work here is because it's at best a marginal profit exercise, and at worst it's a subsidy junkie. Remember another Labour policy is to slash rail fares by 30%. That will effectively make the whole network massively loss making. Being state owned will mean that, just as last time, when the time comes for investment it will be fudged in favour of spending the limited amount of cash available on vote grabbing stuff like more beds for the NHS or more free benefits for the people you want to bribe. The railways will be starved of cash and the rolling stock will fall even further into disrepair. That's what happened last time, it will happen again.
Nobody wins an election by promising to invest in the railways, so no Government is going to invest in them when times are hard and there are pressures elsewhere.

Also, when was it exactly that BR was decent? I've been travelling by rail since the 60s and it was crap then - ( it is much better now! ) The possible exception might have been the inter city 125s.. but even here BR decided to build two different loco types to do the same job - HST and 125. The infamous HST tilting train had millions poured into it before it was quietly parked up and largely forgotten.
You can assert all you like, but the reality is that Government is crap at running big businesses and large organisations as a whole. The NHS is another example - apparently so fantastic that not a single other developed nation on the planet has copied it.

[P5BNij]

Well put Andy, but the tilting train project was the APT, a few years earlier we also had the gas turbine powered APT-E

[andymadmak]

P5BNij said:

Well put Andy, but the other project was the APT

Doh!

[AJL308]

jakesmith said:

Burwood said:

What is tragic or perhaps eye opening. People we considered friends for 20 years have let their political bent spill over into hate. How can I ignore AS denier comments. Tory scum comments when they know i’m a Tory and a Jew. It’s at best ignorant and thoughtless or worse, a real affront intended to make a point. All of this crap is now acceptable under Corbyn.

Here is a Whatsapp from pretty much my best friend who is an imbecile.

"I would rather a racist in power that looks after the majority of people than some government that only cares about the wealthy, power and corporations - not that the labour party are racist in anyway, more than normal society - the problem you have is that most people don't agree with you - labour are not inherently racist - the conservatives are inherently corrupt"

That's one of the most scary things I've read in a long while. We are wandering blindly into something which is going to be unbelievably awful if we allow the current Labour front bench into power.

[AJL308]

2xChevrons said:

FrenchCarFan said:

Big if here but...

If Corbyn loses or even still loses badly, will it also be the end of momentum?

Of course not. Momentum isn't Corbyn's personal bodyguard or anything like that. It's a Labour-affiliated political organisation to promote and campaign for socialist politics within the Labour Party, just as Progess does the same for 'Blairite' politics, the Fabians campaign for parliamentary social democracy, Labour CND brings together people focussed on nuclear disarmament, the JLM is a group of pro-Israel left-wingers and the SERA campaigns and informs on environmental matters and so on.

When Corbyn stands down (whether it's due to a thumping electoral defeat or not)is sent hill-walking, Momentum will encourage a leadership candidate with what they deem suitable views to stand for election - possibly one with harder-left views than Corbyn - and then campaign for their election. They will also continue to exist as a forum and group for supporting their political views throughout the Labour Party. Simple as that.

The idea that Momentum is some sort of elite Red Guard unit that pulls strings in the Labour Party at the whims of Corbyn and McDonnell is one of the more hilarious bits of hysteria that this thread is prone to.

FTFY

[crofty1984]

kev1974 said:

Nobody should be caring about Corbyn, he is just the friendly grandpa puppet, it's the McDonnells, Abbots and Rayners we need to worry about.They are the ones that will devastate the nation's finances, security, and education prospects, while they just push Corbyn in front of the media to tilt his head and smile about it.

This. This thing that he said. Indeed.

[Dont like rolls]

AJL308 said:

2xChevrons said:

FrenchCarFan said:

Big if here but...

If Corbyn loses or even still loses badly, will it also be the end of momentum?

Of course not. Momentum isn't Corbyn's personal bodyguard or anything like that. It's a Labour-affiliated political organisation to promote and campaign for socialist politics within the Labour Party, just as Progess does the same for 'Blairite' politics, the Fabians campaign for parliamentary social democracy, Labour CND brings together people focussed on nuclear disarmament, the JLM is a group of pro-Israel left-wingers and the SERA campaigns and informs on environmental matters and so on.

When Corbyn stands down (whether it's due to a thumping electoral defeat or not)is sent hill-walking, Momentum will encourage a leadership candidate with what they deem suitable views to stand for election - possibly one with harder-left views than Corbyn - and then campaign for their election. They will also continue to exist as a forum and group for supporting their political views throughout the Labour Party. Simple as that.

The idea that Momentum is some sort of elite Red Guard unit that pulls strings in the Labour Party at the whims of Corbyn and McDonnell is one of the more hilarious bits of hysteria that this thread is prone to.

FTFY

Vanguardism: is a strategy whereby the most class-conscious and politically advanced sections of the proletariat or working class, described as the revolutionary vanguard, form organisations in order to draw larger sections of the working class towards revolutionary politics and serve as manifestations of proletarian political power against its class enemies.

[AJL308]

Dont like rolls said:

Digga said:

It amazes me, therefore, how well Labour are doing in the opinion polls so far...

My gut still tells me the polls are wrong and Labour will suffer badly, much more so than the polls are predicting.

I'll probably jinx it but I think you are correct. I'm getting the distinct feeling that they are going to be absolutely eviscerated. Lots of people I know who have been vocal Labour supporters for years and years are openly saying that they cannot vote for a Labour candidate and risk getting Corbyn as PM.

The usual very vocal, shouty suspects have been remarkably quiet on social media of late whereas the numbers of traditional usually quiet Tory types are being far more vocal about how utterly horrendous a Labour government would be. Virtually the sole comments from the left of late seem to consist of such things as vile Tory scum or similar with little actual promoting of Labour policies. They know they have lost.

I (cautiously) predict an absolute blood-bath for Labour.

[Hereward]

vaud said:

Legalities aside, I don't think they would fail overnight. ECML was govt owned for a while and it was fine at first, it then lacked investment, refurbishment and the staff seemed get very apathetic.

So it might look okay for half a term or even a full term by which point we would be at the ballot box again. Any major strikes and they would just blame "years of Tory inaction" whilst being held to ransom for massive wage increases and reduced hours.

Indeed. Socialism is always fine until other people's money runs out. There is plenty of money to be stolen by the communist state in this wealthy nation so things will look great for a while under McDonnell.

[turbobloke]

AJL308 said:

Dont like rolls said:

Digga said:

It amazes me, therefore, how well Labour are doing in the opinion polls so far...

My gut still tells me the polls are wrong and Labour will suffer badly, much more so than the polls are predicting.

I'll probably jinx it but I think you are correct. I'm getting the distinct feeling that they are going to be absolutely eviscerated. Lots of people I know who have been vocal Labour supporters for years and years are openly saying that they cannot vote for a Labour candidate and risk getting Corbyn as PM.

It's also worth remembering that the most noise doesn't necessarily indicate the most votes. Particularly far-Left white noise.

We'll all be wiser on Friday.

[Dont like rolls]

turbobloke said:

It's also worth remembering that the most noise doesn't necessarily indicate the most votes. Particularly far-Left white noise.

We'll all be wiser on Friday.

I fear many will not be >

[turbobloke]

Dont like rolls said:

turbobloke said:

It's also worth remembering that the most noise doesn't necessarily indicate the most votes. Particularly far-Left white noise.

We'll all be wiser on Friday.

I fear many will not be >

OK, we'll all be older on Friday

[AJL308]

andymadmak said:

kuro68k said:

There is a lot of bks said about Corbyn.

What strikes me is that he genuinely cares about people. You might disagree with his policies but he wants to make things better for people, that's his ideology and the motivation behind everything he does.

Boris is only looking out for himself and always trying to find ways to screw you. He isn't there to serve you, he's there to serve himself and his mates.

Corbyn does not care. He says anything that will get him elected. It's easy to give "Miss World contestant" type answers to difficult questions when you don't have a clue how you're actually going to deliver the goods.

We all want world peace, an end to environmental destruction, to ensure that the poor get a decent chance in life, that kids all get the chance of a decent education, that the elderly have dignity in their old age, that employers and employees are both treated with respect, an end to slavery, an end to absolute poverty (its noticeable that Labour now uses the utterly disingenuous 'relative poverty' mantra), a decent public healthcare system etc etc. Saying you want those things most certainly is not the preserve of Labour or Corbyn. Any decent human being of whatever political viewpoint wants those things.

BUT, the issue is how to achieve them. By encouraging enterprise, operating a lower tax economy, encouraging people into work and to have a stake in society? Or by punishing those that succeed, taking huge parts of the economy into public ownership (where it will be run as badly as the NHS is now) ?

In my view, Labours plan represents economic armageddon for this country. The wealthy will flee, the middle and working classes will be left to pay for Labour profligacy and electoral bribery. Heathrow moves 200k people per day (I think). It's a sobering thought that the top 12% of tax payers, who pay 50%+ plus of ALL income tax could be out of the country within a few hours of a Labour victory.
If you're in that 12% , why on earth would you stay to be financially raped? To celebrate the 'social justice' that your rape represents? Delusional.
And if you think that last point is harsh, just watch the Neil interview with Corbyn...

You read my comment from last week

In the Andrew Neil interview it was mentioned that 0.06% of tax payers pay 12% of all the income tax paid. That amounts to 31,000 people paying a staggering amount of tax individually. At the rate at which Heathrow moves people if they all turned up when the polls closed at 10pm tomorrow every single one of them could have left the Country by 5am on Friday. Twelve percent of all the UK's income tax take would have evaporated before 99% of the tax paying workforce were out of bed! The same tax paying workforce who would have to be taxed even more to make up the shortfall.

[williamp]

Lotobear said:

He always came over as slippery and insincere and now he's gone and proved it beyond doubt.

Corbyn has more integrity, even though I hate his politics.

But he doesnt even have that. Lied about the anti semitism cases (not fact checked by the bbc of course), eve lied about watching the queens speach(why?? Its not even that important). He will say anything to get into power.

Once in, you will never get him out.