Jeremy Corbyn (Vol. 4)
Discussion
ORD said:
turbobloke said:
FWIW he won a scholarship to Eton. Can't find A-level grades but his performance - excelling in English and Classics - won him the prestigious Newcastle Prize (at Eton). His academic success at Eton resulted in a place at Balliol College, Oxford, where he studied Classics (Literae Humaniores?) in which he obtained a 2:1 degree. Some other politicians follow, though Blair isn't listed as apparently he keeps his A-level grades secret, which is his prerogative.
JC managed EE at A-level
CMD got AAA
Gordon Brown allegedly got AAAA
David Miliband BBBD
Ed Miliband AABB
John Major has 6 O-levels, 3 obtained at school
Unless someone did extremely badly (showing they are below even average intelligence), I don’t see the relevance of A-levels when the person is in their 50s!JC managed EE at A-level
CMD got AAA
Gordon Brown allegedly got AAAA
David Miliband BBBD
Ed Miliband AABB
John Major has 6 O-levels, 3 obtained at school
turbobloke said:
That wasn't the basis of my post, and fwiw I agree. The fact that somebody didn't get this or that 30 years ago may say more about school policies and wider opportunities of the day; the context has changed considerably over time. The lack of educational criteria for MPs is part of a wider lack of criteria relating to experience and expertise. As others - notably civil servants - do a lot of grunting and wonking, it's not fatal to have a lowly educated PM, but superficially it doesn't look so good when many professions have long been, are moving to, or have already moved to, all-graduate status.
Neil Kinnock had a degree, John Major didn't. Neither did Winston Churchill. Excluding people without degrees, in effect saying we aren't allowed to vote for them even if we want to, would certainly not be a good look.pingu393 said:
Fundoreen said:
went to eton. acted like the class clown.never did any work.
Now thats a résumé . Do labour have someone of this mighty ilk?
To act the clown, not do any work, yet get into Oxford University takes some serious brains.Now thats a résumé . Do labour have someone of this mighty ilk?
Do we know what his A Level grades were, or even his Uni grading?
With all the Eton education and special prep, our pm couldn't even get a first class honours. But then, he is prime minister which shows how smart he really is. Or how stupid we are?
Dr Jekyll said:
turbobloke said:
That wasn't the basis of my post, and fwiw I agree. The fact that somebody didn't get this or that 30 years ago may say more about school policies and wider opportunities of the day; the context has changed considerably over time. The lack of educational criteria for MPs is part of a wider lack of criteria relating to experience and expertise. As others - notably civil servants - do a lot of grunting and wonking, it's not fatal to have a lowly educated PM, but superficially it doesn't look so good when many professions have long been, are moving to, or have already moved to, all-graduate status.
Neil Kinnock had a degree, John Major didn't. Neither did Winston Churchill. Excluding people without degrees, in effect saying we aren't allowed to vote for them even if we want to, would certainly not be a good look.biggbn said:
I know he got a second class degree, all that's required academically to be hailed as smart. Like really smart. Like 24/7. May had a second class degree also. In geography. And still couldn't find her way out of Europe. Says it all really.
With all the Eton education and special prep, our pm couldn't even get a first class honours. But then, he is prime minister which shows how smart he really is. Or how stupid we are?
I take it you got a First from Oxford? Sounds as though you are speaking from personal experience.With all the Eton education and special prep, our pm couldn't even get a first class honours. But then, he is prime minister which shows how smart he really is. Or how stupid we are?
biggbn said:
I know he got a second class degree, all that's required academically to be hailed as smart. Like really smart. Like 24/7. May had a second class degree also. In geography. And still couldn't find her way out of Europe. Says it all really.
With all the Eton education and special prep, our pm couldn't even get a first class honours. But then, he is prime minister which shows how smart he really is. Or how stupid we are?
He probably got a 2.1 because he was spending crucial parts of his degree course running for, and then being, President of the Union. But I suspect the fact of the latter has helped his career a lot more than the former. With all the Eton education and special prep, our pm couldn't even get a first class honours. But then, he is prime minister which shows how smart he really is. Or how stupid we are?
230TE said:
I take it you got a First from Oxford? Sounds as though you are speaking from personal experience.
You miss the point of my post? He is universally lauded as a smart guy by his supporters. Yet he did not get a great degree. But he is PM, so what does it all mean? Academic results count for little when you are from the right background. I would argue they count for little in reality. Dianne Abbot got a second from Cambridge, she is not portrayed as a great thinker now, is she? My first was not from Oxford, or Cambridge, but it was a first nonetheless. I know how much work it takes, work Boris clearly never put in. Surprisingly.
Edited by biggbn on Sunday 15th December 17:04
His academic record is no longer relevant other than as a gauge to his natural intelligence compared to his work ethic.
I've been at school with the following who obtained good grades...
1. Gifted, but hard working. All As
2. Gifted, but lazy. Still obtained many As and some Bs
3. Not as gifted, but hard working. As and Bs.
I suspected that Boris is in the second category. It could be that he is in the first, but hides it well. He is definitely not in the third.
Most of those I know who attained a 2:1 were just short of a First, rather than just above a 2:2.
2:2s tended to be solid 2s and a 2:1 was more like a Lower First than an Upper Second.
Just for the record, I have a Desmond
. As one of my teachers once wrote "In his exams, as in life, he will get what he deserves, no more, no less."
I've been at school with the following who obtained good grades...
1. Gifted, but hard working. All As
2. Gifted, but lazy. Still obtained many As and some Bs
3. Not as gifted, but hard working. As and Bs.
I suspected that Boris is in the second category. It could be that he is in the first, but hides it well. He is definitely not in the third.
Most of those I know who attained a 2:1 were just short of a First, rather than just above a 2:2.
2:2s tended to be solid 2s and a 2:1 was more like a Lower First than an Upper Second.
Just for the record, I have a Desmond
. As one of my teachers once wrote "In his exams, as in life, he will get what he deserves, no more, no less." biggbn said:
pingu393 said:
Fundoreen said:
went to eton. acted like the class clown.never did any work.
Now thats a résumé . Do labour have someone of this mighty ilk?
To act the clown, not do any work, yet get into Oxford University takes some serious brains.Now thats a résumé . Do labour have someone of this mighty ilk?
Do we know what his A Level grades were, or even his Uni grading?
With all the Eton education and special prep, our pm couldn't even get a first class honours. But then, he is prime minister which shows how smart he really is. Or how stupid we are?
Today, after grade inflation (and students genuinely working harder than we did in our day, as they are paying for their courses), Firsts and 2.1s are the vast majority of degrees handed out. If you look at the Norrington Table today, it is about 40% getting Firsts and about the same getting 2.1s. The Tompkins Table at Cambridge shows a similar level of Firsts (lowest percentage is 18% - way above what I remember. Thirds are almost non-existent.
biggbn said:
You miss the point of my post? He is universally lauded as a smart guy by his supporters. Yet he did not get a great degree. Dianne Abbot got a second from Cambridge, she is not portrayed as a great thinker now, is she?
My first was not from Oxford, or Cambridge, but it was a first nonetheless. I know how much work it takes, work Boris clearly never put in. Surprisingly.
If the point of your post is that Boris didn't spend his three years at Oxford buried in books then you're probably right. Unless you are a true genius, the amount of work required for a first is about ten times that needed to scrape a 2.1. What matters is what you do instead with the time thus saved. I spent mine arsing around with old cars, going hunting, getting drunk and partying. My contemporary is now running the country: I repair classic cars for a living. I suspect Boris may have put his three years to better use than me, but je ne regrette rien.My first was not from Oxford, or Cambridge, but it was a first nonetheless. I know how much work it takes, work Boris clearly never put in. Surprisingly.
pingu393 said:
His academic record is no longer relevant other than as a gauge to his natural intelligence compared to his work ethic.
I've been at school with the following who obtained good grades...
1. Gifted, but hard working. All As
2. Gifted, but lazy. Still obtained many As and some Bs
3. Not as gifted, but hard working. As and Bs.
I suspected that Boris is in the second category. It could be that he is in the first, but hides it well. He is definitely not in the third.
Most of those I know who attained a 2:1 were just short of a First, rather than just above a 2:2.
2:2s tended to be solid 2s and a 2:1 was more like a Lower First than an Upper Second.
Just for the record, I have a Desmond . As one of my teachers once wrote "In his exams, as in life, he will get what he deserves, no more, no less."
Kind of the point I was trying to make. Everyone harps on about his intelligence when the paperwork doesn't back it up. However, he is pm. That suggests a native intelligence and predatory nature that is somewhat beyond what is taught at oxbridge. Academia is a gauge for potentiality, a tool we use to ascertain where someome might go. That said, some of the smartest people I have met have left school with nothing and never been to university. I've been at school with the following who obtained good grades...
1. Gifted, but hard working. All As
2. Gifted, but lazy. Still obtained many As and some Bs
3. Not as gifted, but hard working. As and Bs.
I suspected that Boris is in the second category. It could be that he is in the first, but hides it well. He is definitely not in the third.
Most of those I know who attained a 2:1 were just short of a First, rather than just above a 2:2.
2:2s tended to be solid 2s and a 2:1 was more like a Lower First than an Upper Second.
Just for the record, I have a Desmond
. As one of my teachers once wrote "In his exams, as in life, he will get what he deserves, no more, no less." 230TE said:
biggbn said:
You miss the point of my post? He is universally lauded as a smart guy by his supporters. Yet he did not get a great degree. Dianne Abbot got a second from Cambridge, she is not portrayed as a great thinker now, is she?
My first was not from Oxford, or Cambridge, but it was a first nonetheless. I know how much work it takes, work Boris clearly never put in. Surprisingly.
If the point of your post is that Boris didn't spend his three years at Oxford buried in books then you're probably right. Unless you are a true genius, the amount of work required for a first is about ten times that needed to scrape a 2.1. What matters is what you do instead with the time thus saved. I spent mine arsing around with old cars, going hunting, getting drunk and partying. My contemporary is now running the country: I repair classic cars for a living. I suspect Boris may have put his three years to better use than me, but je ne regrette rien.My first was not from Oxford, or Cambridge, but it was a first nonetheless. I know how much work it takes, work Boris clearly never put in. Surprisingly.
Burwood said:
Jeremy Corbyn has called on like-minded followers to join the Labour party in an apparent bid to ensure the election of another hard-left leader.
Reported in the Telegraph 14 mins ago
Awesome news
Doubt they can net many that way, all the SWP cranks are already onboard.Reported in the Telegraph 14 mins ago
Awesome news
No doubt motivated more by impending financial crisis for the party which spent £46.3m and raised £45.6m last year and which is staring at much more significant losses this year along with legal claims when the EHRC report lands.
https://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2019/08/labou...
Maybe Jez could use some of his £3.1m personal wealth to cover the shortfall?
230TE said:
If the point of your post is that Boris didn't spend his three years at Oxford buried in books then you're probably right. Unless you are a true genius, the amount of work required for a first is about ten times that needed to scrape a 2.1. What matters is what you do instead with the time thus saved. I spent mine arsing around with old cars, going hunting, getting drunk and partying. My contemporary is now running the country: I repair classic cars for a living. I suspect Boris may have put his three years to better use than me, but je ne regrette rien.
I know which I'd prefer to do. And it doesn't involve politics.AJL308 said:
We were just saying this very thing at work yesterday. Although it was still very significant when Blyth Valley (just up the road from me) went blue, the fact is that the South East centered political parties are totally oblivious to the fact that that the traditional industrial north working classes simply don't exist any more for all practical purposes. The whole of the North past Watford is no longer blanketed with a think industrial smog, the buildings are not blackened from the soot in the air and people don't spend their entire lives with a Woodbine hanging from the side of their lips. It's gone and has been largely so for at least 40 years.
People in this part of the world are not paid 2 and 6 a month and pay a half pence for a pint. I run a business and spend six or seven days a week working. I take home a moderate amount each month and have a perfectly pleasant life and more than sufficient disposable income. No way could I have anywhere near the life I do living anywhere near the M25. The Tyne and Wear Metro system is currently experiencing problems due to industrial action - the drivers want more money. I was amazed to find out that are already on £46K and want a 16% increase! Leaving aside any discussion of the increase, no one inside the M25 has the slightest conception of what sort of lifestyle you can have on an almost £50K wage up here. You'd need to earn at least £200K in London to get something remotely approaching what you could have here on their money. A Metro driver is about as far as you can get from what people think of as the traditional "working class".
On a related note; we keep hearing that if you earn less than 60% of median income you are officially living on poverty. Ok, I know that's an average of all wages but if I compare what I earn to that of a Metro driver then I'm living in poverty. Yet I have a house with £200K equity, three cars all paid for and around £1K a month disposable income after my necessities. The "relative poverty" bulls
t is something else which Labour needs to address because people simply do not buy it.
Sounds like my dad. He, along with a lot of other people who were definitely working class in the 70s to those standards (few/no qualifications, employed as a fitter, retired from being a fitter after 40 years) and would be JC's idea of "Northern working class" today are actually by the same standards middle class now. In his own words "I own my own house that I want to pass onto my kids, we've got 2 cars paid for (albeit cheap old ones), we have a holiday every year, usually abroad, I pay all my bills without worrying about it". People in this part of the world are not paid 2 and 6 a month and pay a half pence for a pint. I run a business and spend six or seven days a week working. I take home a moderate amount each month and have a perfectly pleasant life and more than sufficient disposable income. No way could I have anywhere near the life I do living anywhere near the M25. The Tyne and Wear Metro system is currently experiencing problems due to industrial action - the drivers want more money. I was amazed to find out that are already on £46K and want a 16% increase! Leaving aside any discussion of the increase, no one inside the M25 has the slightest conception of what sort of lifestyle you can have on an almost £50K wage up here. You'd need to earn at least £200K in London to get something remotely approaching what you could have here on their money. A Metro driver is about as far as you can get from what people think of as the traditional "working class".
On a related note; we keep hearing that if you earn less than 60% of median income you are officially living on poverty. Ok, I know that's an average of all wages but if I compare what I earn to that of a Metro driver then I'm living in poverty. Yet I have a house with £200K equity, three cars all paid for and around £1K a month disposable income after my necessities. The "relative poverty" bulls
t is something else which Labour needs to address because people simply do not buy it. Labour saying to him, tell you what, let's punish those rich exploitative managers by going after the b
ds with their two cars and fancy holidays. Bloomin' keeping houses in the family and away from the proud woodbine smoking working guys like you, eh? Is not going to cut it.HD Adam said:
I'm all for what Labour should be.
Defence of the country, a well funded NHS properly managed, benefits for those really needing help or a safety net, not lifestyle choices, a fair taxation system, reasonble rights for workers and employers, controlled immigration but I don't think it could ever be that.
Me too. If they can offer and have a decent chance of realistically delivering that I'd be down the polling booth so fast all you'd see would be a red blur.Defence of the country, a well funded NHS properly managed, benefits for those really needing help or a safety net, not lifestyle choices, a fair taxation system, reasonble rights for workers and employers, controlled immigration but I don't think it could ever be that.
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