Jeremy Corbyn (Vol. 4)

[psi310398]

Kent Border Kenny said:

It’s pretty safe to say that a 2:1 from Oxford will tend to indicate someone being more academic than many who got a first elsewhere.
Oxbridge does still tend to get the pick of the best students at age 18.

I'm (genuinely) so sorry to have to point out to you that the post immediately below yours rather destroys the argument in your second sentence in one hit .

[CoolHands]

On a point of fact, Can that cow thornbery sue someone (flint) for saying what she said ie attributing a statement to thornbery which (might be) untrue. What I mean is even it is actually untrue, what can she sue her for? If I say my friend said the prime ministers a wker, and he didn’t, can he sue me?

If so surely we’d all be suing each other left right and centre

[surveyor]

It's actually very simple. Tony (Tory) Blair got it. Even Gordon Brown got it. Since then no-one has got it.

Labour policy is left wing, and their voters have left wing tendencies, whether middle, working or workshy class.

Labour will only win a election by either attracting more left wing groups who have not voted previously (hence students), but there are not enough of them. They will not attract right wing voters, so they are left with the middle ground.

They will only win those middle ground voters with a centre to left wing manifesto. The far left Momentum policies will leave them out in the cold for ever.

I've deliberately left out Corbyn, whose leadership caused such a lack of confidence, and the left wing policy that according to Caroline Flint ... even their voters did not believe was deliverable.

[98elise]

jonby said:

ORD said:

I don't think that is the message from this election.

Remove Corbyn and Brexit and Labour would have done fine. The manifesto was not anything like as big a problem as people are now saying.

I don't think many individual policies were a big problem, but the sheer scale of the spending, coupled with the message that these were not a wish list to bring in over 10-15 years but policies they would bring through in their first term, then added to with more spending promises in addition to those in the manifesto just a few days later, was IMO seen by many as an indication of just how little grasp of the real world Corbynites have. Add to that the idea that this can all be done by taxing just the top 5% ,,,,,,,,,,, people just aren't that stupid

It wasn't just a tax on the top 5%. The numbers simply don't stack up.

For a start there was the expropriation of 10% of every large and medium company in the country. It was dressed up as a worker's benefit but it was actually an asset grab by the state. the evil capitalist "shareholders" are in fact you and I with our pension, ISA's etc.

[psi310398]

CoolHands said:

On a point of fact, Can that cow thornbery sue someone (flint) for saying what she said ie attributing a statement to thornbery which (might be) untrue. What I mean is even it is actually untrue, what can she sue her for? If I say my friend said the prime ministers a wker, and he didn’t, can he sue me?

If so surely we’d all be suing each other left right and centre

Isn't an added problem that any alleged defamation needs to be shown to cause loss, or cause a reasonable person to think worse of her?

The problem is that for most of the country she'd have to be pitchforking and then eating live babies for people to think worse of her than they currently do.

[surveyor]

psi310398 said:

CoolHands said:

On a point of fact, Can that cow thornbery sue someone (flint) for saying what she said ie attributing a statement to thornbery which (might be) untrue. What I mean is even it is actually untrue, what can she sue her for? If I say my friend said the prime ministers a wker, and he didn’t, can he sue me?

If so surely we’d all be suing each other left right and centre

Isn't an added problem that any alleged defamation needs to be shown to cause loss, or cause a reasonable person to think worse of her?

The problem is that for most of the country she'd have to be pitchforking and then eating live babies for people to think worse of her than they currently do.

ssss for Slander. According to my old law lecturer John Greed.

Defences are it's true. or no loss.

Very expensive action to take, hence it rarely happens.

[gizlaroc]

Not sure if people have seen this tweet from 2015....



The new replies are just wonderful.


https://twitter.com/LordJohnMann/status/6104031647...

[vaud]

Flumpo said:

Wasn’t David Cameron an mp for 4 years before becoming leader?

Although he had worked in the party for decades.

"From 1988 to 1993 he worked at the Conservative Research Department, latterly assisting the Conservative Prime Minister John Major, before leaving politics to work for Carlton Communications in 1994. Becoming an MP in 2001, he served in the opposition shadow cabinet under Conservative leader Michael Howard, and succeeded Howard in 2005"

[A Winner Is You]

[Johnnytheboy]

ORD said:

I don't think that is the message from this election.

Remove Corbyn and Brexit and Labour would have done fine. The manifesto was not anything like as big a problem as people are now saying.

So, apart from their policy on the defining issue of the age and their candidate to be prime minister, everything was fine?

Have another

[The Hypno-Toad]

A Winner Is You said:

The very definition of as thick as mince.

[Burwood]

The Hypno-Toad said:

A Winner Is You said:

The very definition of as thick as mince.

Prison tattoo? It’s as realistic as their manifesto. Jezza looks 15 lol

[Burwood]

Thornberry suing. I absolutely believe it’s something she would say. She thinks she still has a chance at leadership. Lol

[Brave Fart]

98elise said:

It wasn't just a tax on the top 5%. The numbers simply don't stack up.

For a start there was the expropriation of 10% of every large and medium company in the country. It was dressed up as a worker's benefit but it was actually an asset grab by the state. the evil capitalist "shareholders" are in fact you and I with our pension, ISA's etc.

Correct. In addition the removal of the Marriage Allowance increasing tax for lots of low paid couples. And the increase in Corporation Tax for small companies, which many owner managed businesses are, to 21%. And taxing dividends, that many retired people rely on, at income tax rates. And capital gains in the same way. And reducing the Inheritance Tax threshold.

And that's before we get on to unfunded promises to pay £58 billion to WASPI women - a desperate, pathetic attempt to grab votes.

Or the ridiculous "30% off rail fares" promise - again unfunded - that would be totally irrelevant to Workington Man. Good for high earning City workers commuting into London though.............

Not to mention the crazy 4 day week - including NHS workers. Batst crazy.

So this suggestion that "only the top 5% will pay more tax" was factually incorrect. A lie, I would say. And those who say "simply remove Corbyn and Brexit; the policies are just fine"; OK, jolly good, you just crack on with your loony Marxist manifesto. Bring it back in 2024 and be prepared to lose again.

[Burwood]

Brave Fart said:

98elise said:

It wasn't just a tax on the top 5%. The numbers simply don't stack up.

For a start there was the expropriation of 10% of every large and medium company in the country. It was dressed up as a worker's benefit but it was actually an asset grab by the state. the evil capitalist "shareholders" are in fact you and I with our pension, ISA's etc.

Correct. In addition the removal of the Marriage Allowance increasing tax for lots of low paid couples. And the increase in Corporation Tax for small companies, which many owner managed businesses are, to 21%. And taxing dividends, that many retired people rely on, at income tax rates. And capital gains in the same way. And reducing the Inheritance Tax threshold.

And that's before we get on to unfunded promises to pay £58 billion to WASPI women - a desperate, pathetic attempt to grab votes.

Or the ridiculous "30% off rail fares" promise - again unfunded - that would be totally irrelevant to Workington Man. Good for high earning City workers commuting into London though.............

Not to mention the crazy 4 day week - including NHS workers. Batst crazy.

So this suggestion that "only the top 5% will pay more tax" was factually incorrect. A lie, I would say. And those who say "simply remove Corbyn and Brexit; the policies are just fine"; OK, jolly good, you just crack on with your loony Marxist manifesto. Bring it back in 2024 and be prepared to lose again.

[Andy Zarse]

Andy Zarse said:

EarlofDrift said:

Andy Zarse said:

Fundoreen said:

went to eton. acted like the class clown.never did any work.
Now thats a résumé . Do labour have someone of this mighty ilk?

Absolutely yes. Almost the entire Corbyn inner circle. From Jezza himself, Ronald McDonnell to Andrew Murray (Worth Abbey and Oxford) and Seamus Milne (Winchester College and Oxford).

All old fashioned upper class anti Semites only now wearing Coal Not Dole badges. Same schools, same lives, same aristocratic or upper middle class obsessive disdain for Jews. If they’d lived in the thirties you know they’d be wearing pseudo-military uniforms.

You can almost transplant that to any socialist government in waiting, they are almost always from an upper middle class background.

Take the Cuban revolutionaries from an educated middle class background, the exact same class they went on to alienate enough most of them left to go to the United States.

My favourite Seamus Milne story recall by a contemporary when they were boarding at Winchester College. Seamus was fulminating, complete with his Lenin hat and gloriously fake Cuban accent, about right wing bias at the BBC. Someone suggested he ought to take the matter up with his own father... Alastair Milne was the then Director General!

Entitled? Certainly!
Privileged? Undoubtedly!
Completely unself-aware of either? You bet.

I hate prats like Milne, upper class folk who engage in Marxism as a hobby.

[S1KRR]

ORD said:

I don't think that is the message from this election.



The manifesto was not anything like as big a problem as people are now saying.

[nikaiyo2]

A Winner Is You said:

Err why has she had Mahmoud Ahmadinejad tattooed on her?

[ORD]

Brave Fart said:

Correct. In addition the removal of the Marriage Allowance increasing tax for lots of low paid couples. And the increase in Corporation Tax for small companies, which many owner managed businesses are, to 21%. And taxing dividends, that many retired people rely on, at income tax rates. And capital gains in the same way. And reducing the Inheritance Tax threshold.

And that's before we get on to unfunded promises to pay £58 billion to WASPI women - a desperate, pathetic attempt to grab votes.

Or the ridiculous "30% off rail fares" promise - again unfunded - that would be totally irrelevant to Workington Man. Good for high earning City workers commuting into London though.............

Not to mention the crazy 4 day week - including NHS workers. Batst crazy.

So this suggestion that "only the top 5% will pay more tax" was factually incorrect. A lie, I would say. And those who say "simply remove Corbyn and Brexit; the policies are just fine"; OK, jolly good, you just crack on with your loony Marxist manifesto. Bring it back in 2024 and be prepared to lose again.

Don’t get me wrong - the manifesto was bat st crazy and would have destroyed this country. But I genuinely don’t think that was what did for Labour. It was Brexit and Corbyn.

Once Brexit is a done deal, and Corbyn is gone, Labour could win with those bat st policies.

[Brave Fart]

ORD said:

Don’t get me wrong - the manifesto was bat st crazy and would have destroyed this country. But I genuinely don’t think that was what did for Labour. It was Brexit as Corbyn.

Once Brexit is a done deal, and Corbyn is gone, Labour could win with those bat st policies.

Fair enough, we'll see I suppose, because I predict that the manifesto won't change that much. As you say, the two biggest reasons for Labour losing votes this time around will have vanished.
In addition, we'll have had four years or so of Brexit, possibly even with a hard "no deal" exit which could still happen. Who knows what the economy will look like five years from now.............