Jeremy Corbyn (Vol. 4)

[Blackpuddin]

Agammemnon said:

Blackpuddin said:

Agammemnon said:

Blackpuddin said:

Like Corbyn or not it's hard to argue against the general points he's making on the Vine show about protecting the NHS from cuts.

What cuts have happened, what cuts are anticipated, how will any additional funding be paid for?

Or did JC not cover any of this?

Hey, I'm not his PR man, ask him or listen to the interview on iPlayer.

I think health, education, foreign aid, defence, scientific research & industrial support should all have better funding, as should social services, childcare, pre- & ane-natal support, fisheries protection & the potato marketing board.

Am I doing this right? Is any of it difficult to argue with?

No interest in arguing with you or anybody else about any of this other stuff you've brought into it for whatever reason. Would only add on the original point of the NHS that I would always use the word 'must' rather than 'should' when discussing the receipt of better funding. That's the key difference for me.

[Agammemnon]

Blackpuddin said:

on the original point of the NHS that I would always use the word 'must' rather than 'should' when discussing the receipt of better funding. That's the key difference for me.

It's a bottomless pit for money. I've never known a time when it hasn't claimed crisis & a need for more funding.

It should be nearer to its original theme than the current monster into which it has developed. Corbyn et al saying it needs more money is just an emotive soundbite.

[ORD]

We get the NHS cost we deserve. Everybody wants to live to 100 and have operations and other hugely expensive healthcare in their 80s. And a huge proportion of people knowingly give themselves life limiting diseases like obesity and type 2 diabetes. We do all that and then complain when the NHS is crushingly expensive.

[over_the_hill]

RichB said:

Burwood said:

Good piece in the Guardian. Sums it up nicely

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar...

Very good, "a sour, embitterment yesterday's man."

He was never even yesterday's man.

To be a "has been" you first need to be a "once were".

He also went on to say the self employed need more help.
When have labour ever been fans of the self employed - I mean the audacity of trying to get on in life.

When he started banging on about Bangladesh I just zoned out - doesn't he think we have enough to contend with here.

Edited by over_the_hill on Tuesday 31st March 16:36

[Blackpuddin]

ORD said:

We get the NHS cost we deserve. Everybody wants to live to 100 and have operations and other hugely expensive healthcare in their 80s. And a huge proportion of people knowingly give themselves life limiting diseases like obesity and type 2 diabetes. We do all that and then complain when the NHS is crushingly expensive.

I agree with your facts but the one that overrides all others IMO is that, whoever we are, we all want to be looked after when the chips are down (insert chip joke here) without having to sell all our possessions to afford it.
Obesity seems to be endemic in Western society. I don't have any stats I'm afraid but I suspect it's more of a problem (%age of the population-wise) in the US than it is in the UK, and they don't even have the fallback of free healthcare like we do. In all honesty I don't know anyone who complains about the cost of the NHS.

[Slaav]

Agammemnon said:

Blackpuddin said:

on the original point of the NHS that I would always use the word 'must' rather than 'should' when discussing the receipt of better funding. That's the key difference for me.

It's a bottomless pit for money. I've never known a time when it hasn't claimed crisis & a need for more funding.

It should be nearer to its original theme than the current monster into which it has developed. Corbyn et al saying it needs more money is just an emotive soundbite.

Can anybody else remember when Labour went early and went big with their manifesto promising (figs are wrong but the point is accurate) an EXTRA £3bn or whatever in real terms. The nasty Tories then announced their own manifesto, promising something like £5bn extra..... so Labour promised even more and then threw out the ‘bribe’ to women who had their pensions ‘stolen’ by the nasty Toiries!

Whatever the government promises, Labour will deride it!!! And promise more.

The NHS is really getting out of control and won’t be ‘cured’ by throwing eleventy billion £ at it!!

[Sway]

Agammemnon said:

It's a bottomless pit for money. I've never known a time when it hasn't claimed crisis & a need for more funding.

It should be nearer to its original theme than the current monster into which it has developed. Corbyn et al saying it needs more money is just an emotive soundbite.

Yep - until there is a viable method for immortality, there will always be demands for more cash when there's no defined service level...

[ellroy]

Anyone read the rather splendid claptrap that is his letter to Boris earlier on?

[Gogoplata]

ellroy said:

Anyone read the rather splendid claptrap that is his letter to Boris earlier on?

https://order-order.com/2020/03/31/jezzas-shamboli...

The poor fella can't even count to five!

[Vanden Saab]

Gogoplata said:

ellroy said:

Anyone read the rather splendid claptrap that is his letter to Boris earlier on?

https://order-order.com/2020/03/31/jezzas-shamboli...

The poor fella can't even count to five!

Must have used the Abbotacus...

[TriumphStag3.0V8]

He really is a grade A bell-end.

[Hereward]

TriumphStag3.0V8 said:

He really is a grade A bell-end.

I could write pages and pages but in the end it simply boils down to this.

[MKnight702]

Here's an interesting thought experiment. Is there any examples of Labour taking over an economy in crisis and leaving power with it in a better state?

Looking forward a few years when the Corona virus has wrecked the global economy and the great unwashed are unhappy with the continued austerity, will there be a swing towards Labour who no doubt will promise free unicorns and the moon on a stick? What would happen if they take power in that situation with no reserves to squander? Would we be looking at Venezuela with envy?

[Blackpuddin]

Sway said:

Agammemnon said:

It's a bottomless pit for money. I've never known a time when it hasn't claimed crisis & a need for more funding.

It should be nearer to its original theme than the current monster into which it has developed. Corbyn et al saying it needs more money is just an emotive soundbite.

Yep - until there is a viable method for immortality, there will always be demands for more cash when there's no defined service level...

Sure, but the bottom-line question is always this: would we rather have the NHS or not have it? If we want it, the next question is, what level of service do we want? I'd bet that the desired standard would be higher than the actual standard at present.

[Agammemnon]

Blackpuddin said:

Sure, but the bottom-line question is always this: would we rather have the NHS or not have it? If we want it, the next question is, what level of service do we want? I'd bet that the desired standard would be higher than the actual standard at present.

I want a better car than I currently have, and a nicer house, and nicer clothes, and better holidays. Affording it is a different thing.

[Slaav]

Well Kevin Maguire has tweeted that we MUST have a General Election when this virus crisis is over... I posted this elsewhere and maybe even on this thread but he seems to have gotten away with it!

Apparently when this is over, Boris will have no mandate as the world will be a different place.... if JC can find away of suspending the party leadership voting, he might even be able to ‘win’ a third GE?

[Blackpuddin]

Agammemnon said:

Blackpuddin said:

Sure, but the bottom-line question is always this: would we rather have the NHS or not have it? If we want it, the next question is, what level of service do we want? I'd bet that the desired standard would be higher than the actual standard at present.

I want a better car than I currently have, and a nicer house, and nicer clothes, and better holidays. Affording it is a different thing.

Yep, that sort of decision always boils down to personal priorities. The difference with the NHS is that the level at which it operates is chosen by the Govt. IMO there is a disconnect between that level and the level of service that a majority of the UK population would want if they were given a direct vote on it – which of course is unlikely to happen. Suspect that the disconnect between desired and actual levels of service is wider now in these virusy times than it was before them.

[TriumphStag3.0V8]

Slaav said:

Well Kevin Maguire has tweeted that we MUST have a General Election when this virus crisis is over... I posted this elsewhere and maybe even on this thread but he seems to have gotten away with it!

Apparently when this is over, Boris will have no mandate as the world will be a different place.... if JC can find away of suspending the party leadership voting, he might even be able to ‘win’ a third GE?

He wants Boris to have an even bigger majority? Wow. Good to know.


Now, who is Kevin Maguire?

[motco]

Slaav said:

Well Kevin Maguire has tweeted that we MUST have a General Election when this virus crisis is over... I posted this elsewhere and maybe even on this thread but he seems to have gotten away with it!

Apparently when this is over, Boris will have no mandate as the world will be a different place.... if JC can find away of suspending the party leadership voting, he might even be able to ‘win’ a third GE?

Isn't he the bloke that writes "NOW WASH YOUR HANDS PLEASE" on bog paper?

[T6 vanman]

Blackpuddin said:

Agammemnon said:

Blackpuddin said:

Sure, but the bottom-line question is always this: would we rather have the NHS or not have it? If we want it, the next question is, what level of service do we want? I'd bet that the desired standard would be higher than the actual standard at present.

I want a better car than I currently have, and a nicer house, and nicer clothes, and better holidays. Affording it is a different thing.

Yep, that sort of decision always boils down to personal priorities. The difference with the NHS is that the level at which it operates is chosen by the Govt. IMO there is a disconnect between that level and the level of service that a majority of the UK population would want if they were given a direct vote on it – which of course is unlikely to happen. Suspect that the disconnect between desired and actual levels of service is wider now in these virusy times than it was before them.

I know of several who having seen and done all they wanted just wanted palliative care but the system deamed hugely expensive invasive and complex surgery was the answer,
There is a disconnect and the correct answer is never easy