Jeremy Corbyn (Vol. 4)

[Burwood]

Johnnytheboy said:

jakesmith said:

Oilchange said:

jakesmith said:

It seems that antisemitism is the only racism where the victims are attempted to be gaslit

Well what is it then? Gaslighted?
Yes I suppose so, many thanks

I may be wrong, but I don't think that's what he was driving at.

You're wrong. Don't go there. Jews don't make those sort of jokes.

[Oilchange]

I was just a little surprised at the choice of words, that’s all.
Do carry on chaps...

[Ridgemont]

Reuters have had confirmed that the papers Corbyn was waving around during the election campaign claiming to be details of the U.K./US trade negotiations, were indeed that and had been hacked (as suspected) by state backed Russian hackers.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-russia-h...

The Russians accessed Liam Fox’s email account multiple times between July-Oct last year.

[vaud]

Ridgemont said:

Reuters have had confirmed that the papers Corbyn was waving around during the election campaign claiming to be details of the U.K./US trade negotiations, were indeed that and had been hacked (as suspected) by state backed Russian hackers.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-russia-h...

The Russians accessed Liam Fox’s email account multiple times between July-Oct last year.

Is there any crime in a politician passing on a document that they know must have come from a compromised source?

[Ridgemont]

vaud said:

Ridgemont said:

Reuters have had confirmed that the papers Corbyn was waving around during the election campaign claiming to be details of the U.K./US trade negotiations, were indeed that and had been hacked (as suspected) by state backed Russian hackers.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-russia-h...

The Russians accessed Liam Fox’s email account multiple times between July-Oct last year.

Is there any crime in a politician passing on a document that they know must have come from a compromised source?

Doubt it: the security services and GCHQ took a dim view of the Guardian’s local stash of snowden files and insisted they were destroyed (for show more than anything else https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/04/su... but no alleged criminal behaviour was ever pinned on them, unlike Snowden of course.

I suspect it speaks volumes about the characters of those in labour HQ at the time though.

[Zirconia]

Russians hacked a Tory minister (phishing?) and stole secret trade documents from the heart of UK government and gave some to the internetz? What else did they get.

But yeah, Corbyn.

[jakesmith]

Zirconia said:

Russians hacked a Tory minister (phishing?) and stole secret trade documents from the heart of UK government and gave some to the internetz? What else did they get.

But yeah, Corbyn.

Well, he didn’t have to cite it’s content that was gifted by his Russian pals, as part of his election bid- or was that someone else’s fault? It’s almost as if he’s a useful fool to the Russians

[Zirconia]

jakesmith said:

Zirconia said:

Russians hacked a Tory minister (phishing?) and stole secret trade documents from the heart of UK government and gave some to the internetz? What else did they get.

But yeah, Corbyn.

Well, he didn’t have to cite it’s content that was gifted by his Russian pals, as part of his election bid- or was that someone else’s fault? It’s almost as if he’s a useful fool to the Russians

I think he was played for the situation, NHS is in the US trade delegations sights and is divisive.

But if this was lifted from a ministers secure storage, let's not lose sight of that. Wonder how the enquiry is going, is this nugget coming out now for a reason?

[vaud]

Zirconia said:

I think he was played for the situation, NHS is in the US trade delegations sights and is divisive.

But if this was lifted from a ministers secure storage, let's not lose sight of that. Wonder how the enquiry is going, is this nugget coming out now for a reason?

BBC said "an email account belonging to Conservative MP Liam Fox" which leaves it open to him being silly and having forwarded/copied it to a personal email address...

[jakesmith]

vaud said:

BBC said "an email account belonging to Conservative MP Liam Fox" which leaves it open to him being silly and having forwarded/copied it to a personal email address...

I’m sure they’ve not been warned about doing that...

[Europa1]

jakesmith said:

vaud said:

BBC said "an email account belonging to Conservative MP Liam Fox" which leaves it open to him being silly and having forwarded/copied it to a personal email address...

I’m sure they’ve not been warned about doing that...

I'm sure they all were.

I suspect Hillary Clinton was similarly warned.

[Zirconia]

vaud said:

Zirconia said:

I think he was played for the situation, NHS is in the US trade delegations sights and is divisive.

But if this was lifted from a ministers secure storage, let's not lose sight of that. Wonder how the enquiry is going, is this nugget coming out now for a reason?

BBC said "an email account belonging to Conservative MP Liam Fox" which leaves it open to him being silly and having forwarded/copied it to a personal email address...

It also said accessed July through October. If he did this with one document, what else was in his emails. Silly is not a word I would use for a trade secretary who should be a bit more careful if this is the case.

We used to get endless check ups via training courses that no work work was ever to see a personal computer outside work. All work had to be carried out on a work laptop via work access VPN and all bitlockered and secured by company software for the purpose. They took it very seriously.

Edit. Timing is also curious, who let this out now. Raab finally relented and said "oh yes they did" some weeks ago? Was that when Fox said "erm, boss, I might have made a boo boo".

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-russia-h...

Edited by Zirconia on Monday 3rd August 20:30

[jakesmith]

Europa1 said:

jakesmith said:

vaud said:

BBC said "an email account belonging to Conservative MP Liam Fox" which leaves it open to him being silly and having forwarded/copied it to a personal email address...

I’m sure they’ve not been warned about doing that...

I'm sure they all were.

I suspect Hillary Clinton was similarly warned.

Yes I know!!

[HD Adam]

jakesmith said:

Zirconia said:

Russians hacked a Tory minister (phishing?) and stole secret trade documents from the heart of UK government and gave some to the internetz? What else did they get.

But yeah, Corbyn.

Well, he didn’t have to cite it’s content that was gifted by his Russian pals, as part of his election bid- or was that someone else’s fault? It’s almost as if he’s a useful fool to the Russians

But according to the Useful Idiots, the Russian Govt. fund the Tory party because they wanted the Tories to win the election.

However, it looks like the Russian Govt. hacked a Tory minister's email and passed the documents to Agent Cob Jeremy Corbyn to expose the Tory party as liars so they would lose the election.

Riiiiiiiiiight.

How does that work then?

[jakesmith]

Well, I’d say the idiots are wrong?

[Fastdruid]

HD Adam said:

jakesmith said:

Zirconia said:

Russians hacked a Tory minister (phishing?) and stole secret trade documents from the heart of UK government and gave some to the internetz? What else did they get.

But yeah, Corbyn.

Well, he didn’t have to cite it’s content that was gifted by his Russian pals, as part of his election bid- or was that someone else’s fault? It’s almost as if he’s a useful fool to the Russians

But according to the Useful Idiots, the Russian Govt. fund the Tory party because they wanted the Tories to win the election.

However, it looks like the Russian Govt. hacked a Tory minister's email and passed the documents to Agent Cob Jeremy Corbyn to expose the Tory party as liars so they would lose the election.

Riiiiiiiiiight.

How does that work then?

Reality is that the Russian state want to sow discord. They play both sides.

The ex-Russian British citizens are funding the Conservative party almost certainly for personal selfish reasons rather than being Russian state actors. Lets not forget that they are rich ex-Russians and the Labour party has publicly stated they want to take significant amounts of extra money from the "rich".

[Zirconia]

Fastdruid said:

HD Adam said:

jakesmith said:

Zirconia said:

Russians hacked a Tory minister (phishing?) and stole secret trade documents from the heart of UK government and gave some to the internetz? What else did they get.

But yeah, Corbyn.

Well, he didn’t have to cite it’s content that was gifted by his Russian pals, as part of his election bid- or was that someone else’s fault? It’s almost as if he’s a useful fool to the Russians

But according to the Useful Idiots, the Russian Govt. fund the Tory party because they wanted the Tories to win the election.

However, it looks like the Russian Govt. hacked a Tory minister's email and passed the documents to Agent Cob Jeremy Corbyn to expose the Tory party as liars so they would lose the election.

Riiiiiiiiiight.

How does that work then?

Reality is that the Russian state want to sow discord. They play both sides.

The ex-Russian British citizens are funding the Conservative party almost certainly for personal selfish reasons rather than being Russian state actors. Lets not forget that they are rich ex-Russians and the Labour party has publicly stated they want to take significant amounts of extra money from the "rich".

Pretty much I think but Tory party especially Brexit stuff is bought and paid for.

3.5 million+ from Russian pockets now in Tory coffers over the last decade, you don't stand a political party that much out of respect, I doubt very much that ex Russians are ex Russians but state players. I expect Corbyn was an insurance policy just to be sure. Corbyn would have been a disaster for the Russian investments in the UK I think, and the UK.

13 ministers have campaigns benefited so far? (recorded donations actual real donation in Parliament records).

Wonder what Corby is doing at his allotment today.

[Fastdruid]

Zirconia said:

I doubt very much that ex Russians are ex Russians but state players.

Well that really depends on how much you believe that the Russian state is prepared to go as well. Generally people who flee and _choose_ a nation to become citizens tend to be more "patriotic" to their chosen nation than one they're merely born to (this also goes the other way round, see all the "home-grown" Islamic terrorists etc).

So, did the Russian state engage in a ~30 year plan to make some people rich then fake them fleeing to become sleeper agents to then publicly fund the Conservative party from their "own" funds...or are they just acting in their selfish self interests?

Much is made of them being "Russian" but these are very rich people who have fled Russia and obtained British citizenship. Again from their utterly selfish perspective they have a highly vested interest in _NOT_ seeing Labour in power. So as a rich person to whom a few million is pocket change do you:

a) Hope for the best.
b) Cosy up to the ruling party and bung them some cash to keep them in power and get some influence.

I genuinely believe that this is incredibly unlikely to be Russian state and far more likely to just be selfish rich people doing rich things. It could even be that the Ex-Russians are more likely to do this for cultural reasons. The only question over if it's related to the Russian State is how much of a falling out they had with Putin, was it a "I'll let you live and flee the country as long as you do x,y,z for me" or do they hate him now?

Note how little is made of the other Foreign born donations to the various parties, or foreign born MP's...Mostly because that then comes off as incredibly racist while Russia (for some good reasons as well as some not so good) is the bogey man so it's acceptable...

EDIT: Just to add here, don't make the mistake in thinking that I think this is OK. I'm very much against it but not because they are Russian born and more because I believe that _any_ large donation from _any_ source to _any_ political party is bad. Be that Unions, Companies, Rich ex-Russians etc etc etc.

Edited by Fastdruid on Tuesday 4th August 10:25

[anonymous-user]

HD Adam said:

But according to the Useful Idiots, the Russian Govt. fund the Tory party because they wanted the Tories to win the election.

However, it looks like the Russian Govt. hacked a Tory minister's email and passed the documents to Agent Cob Jeremy Corbyn to expose the Tory party as liars so they would lose the election.

Riiiiiiiiiight.

How does that work then?

Trolling to cause unrest and make people unhappy. Why do you think they’re getting involved? That’s the whole point of the interference and Kremlibots etc. to promote putin and Russia’s interests and inflame both sides of whatever debate or election they’re involved in.

[biggbn]

Fastdruid said:

Well that really depends on how much you believe that the Russian state is prepared to go as well. Generally people who flee and _choose_ a nation to become citizens tend to be more "patriotic" to their chosen nation than one they're merely born to (this also goes the other way round, see all the "home-grown" Islamic terrorists etc).

So, did the Russian state engage in a ~30 year plan to make some people rich then fake them fleeing to become sleeper agents to then publicly fund the Conservative party from their "own" funds...or are they just acting in their selfish self interests?

Much is made of them being "Russian" but these are very rich people who have fled Russia and obtained British citizenship. Again from their utterly selfish perspective they have a highly vested interest in _NOT_ seeing Labour in power. So as a rich person to whom a few million is pocket change do you:

a) Hope for the best.
b) Cosy up to the ruling party and bung them some cash to keep them in power and get some influence.

I genuinely believe that this is incredibly unlikely to be Russian state and far more likely to just be selfish rich people doing rich things. It could even be that the Ex-Russians are more likely to do this for cultural reasons. The only question over if it's related to the Russian State is how much of a falling out they had with Putin, was it a "I'll let you live and flee the country as long as you do x,y,z for me" or do they hate him now?

Note how little is made of the other Foreign born donations to the various parties, or foreign born MP's...Mostly because that then comes off as incredibly racist while Russia (for some good reasons as well as some not so good) is the bogey man so it's acceptable...

EDIT: Just to add here, don't make the mistake in thinking that I think this is OK. I'm very much against it but not because they are Russian born and more because I believe that _any_ large donation from _any_ source to _any_ political party is bad. Be that Unions, Companies, Rich ex-Russians etc etc etc.

Edited by Fastdruid on Tuesday 4th August 10:25

This is one of the realities at play here, but i would not rule out state intervention from any of the superpowers in any lesser countries political dealings. Instability suits those seeking hegemony