Jeremy Corbyn (Vol. 4)

[amusingduck]

Oilchange said:

I was just a little surprised at the choice of words, that’s all.
Do carry on chaps...

Are you familiar with gaslighting?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/here-there...

[Vanden Saab]

Zirconia said:

Pretty much I think but Tory party especially Brexit stuff is bought and paid for.

3.5 million+ from Russian pockets now in Tory coffers over the last decade, you don't stand a political party that much out of respect, I doubt very much that ex Russians are ex Russians but state players. I expect Corbyn was an insurance policy just to be sure. Corbyn would have been a disaster for the Russian investments in the UK I think, and the UK.

13 ministers have campaigns benefited so far? (recorded donations actual real donation in Parliament records).

Wonder what Corby is doing at his allotment today.

3.5 million over 10 years... They probably spend more than that on fuel for their yachts...

[jakesmith]

biggbn said:

Fastdruid said:

Well that really depends on how much you believe that the Russian state is prepared to go as well. Generally people who flee and _choose_ a nation to become citizens tend to be more "patriotic" to their chosen nation than one they're merely born to (this also goes the other way round, see all the "home-grown" Islamic terrorists etc).

So, did the Russian state engage in a ~30 year plan to make some people rich then fake them fleeing to become sleeper agents to then publicly fund the Conservative party from their "own" funds...or are they just acting in their selfish self interests?

Much is made of them being "Russian" but these are very rich people who have fled Russia and obtained British citizenship. Again from their utterly selfish perspective they have a highly vested interest in _NOT_ seeing Labour in power. So as a rich person to whom a few million is pocket change do you:

a) Hope for the best.
b) Cosy up to the ruling party and bung them some cash to keep them in power and get some influence.

I genuinely believe that this is incredibly unlikely to be Russian state and far more likely to just be selfish rich people doing rich things. It could even be that the Ex-Russians are more likely to do this for cultural reasons. The only question over if it's related to the Russian State is how much of a falling out they had with Putin, was it a "I'll let you live and flee the country as long as you do x,y,z for me" or do they hate him now?

Note how little is made of the other Foreign born donations to the various parties, or foreign born MP's...Mostly because that then comes off as incredibly racist while Russia (for some good reasons as well as some not so good) is the bogey man so it's acceptable...

EDIT: Just to add here, don't make the mistake in thinking that I think this is OK. I'm very much against it but not because they are Russian born and more because I believe that _any_ large donation from _any_ source to _any_ political party is bad. Be that Unions, Companies, Rich ex-Russians etc etc etc.

Edited by Fastdruid on Tuesday 4th August 10:25

This is one of the realities at play here, but i would not rule out state intervention from any of the superpowers in any lesser countries political dealings. Instability suits those seeking hegemony

100% this, and I'd imagine the UK was the master of this in the olden days of empire, but we're too stupid / entitled / woke / divided to think about protecting our interests now maybe with this type of subterfuge.

Also I used to wonder whether individuals would really give millions to a political party that represents their interest. Seems like a bit of a gamble. I guess for scale it would be like saying, you have £100k savings. A donation of say £250 to a political party will have a fair chance of stopping a party coming to power that will take £50k off you.

[biggbn]

jakesmith said:

biggbn said:

Fastdruid said:

Well that really depends on how much you believe that the Russian state is prepared to go as well. Generally people who flee and _choose_ a nation to become citizens tend to be more "patriotic" to their chosen nation than one they're merely born to (this also goes the other way round, see all the "home-grown" Islamic terrorists etc).

So, did the Russian state engage in a ~30 year plan to make some people rich then fake them fleeing to become sleeper agents to then publicly fund the Conservative party from their "own" funds...or are they just acting in their selfish self interests?

Much is made of them being "Russian" but these are very rich people who have fled Russia and obtained British citizenship. Again from their utterly selfish perspective they have a highly vested interest in _NOT_ seeing Labour in power. So as a rich person to whom a few million is pocket change do you:

a) Hope for the best.
b) Cosy up to the ruling party and bung them some cash to keep them in power and get some influence.

I genuinely believe that this is incredibly unlikely to be Russian state and far more likely to just be selfish rich people doing rich things. It could even be that the Ex-Russians are more likely to do this for cultural reasons. The only question over if it's related to the Russian State is how much of a falling out they had with Putin, was it a "I'll let you live and flee the country as long as you do x,y,z for me" or do they hate him now?

Note how little is made of the other Foreign born donations to the various parties, or foreign born MP's...Mostly because that then comes off as incredibly racist while Russia (for some good reasons as well as some not so good) is the bogey man so it's acceptable...

EDIT: Just to add here, don't make the mistake in thinking that I think this is OK. I'm very much against it but not because they are Russian born and more because I believe that _any_ large donation from _any_ source to _any_ political party is bad. Be that Unions, Companies, Rich ex-Russians etc etc etc.

Edited by Fastdruid on Tuesday 4th August 10:25

This is one of the realities at play here, but i would not rule out state intervention from any of the superpowers in any lesser countries political dealings. Instability suits those seeking hegemony

100% this, and I'd imagine the UK was the master of this in the olden days of empire, but we're too stupid / entitled / woke / divided to think about protecting our interests now maybe with this type of subterfuge.

Also I used to wonder whether individuals would really give millions to a political party that represents their interest. Seems like a bit of a gamble. I guess for scale it would be like saying, you have £100k savings. A donation of say £250 to a political party will have a fair chance of stopping a party coming to power that will take £50k off you.

Jake, we really MUST stop agreeing with such regularity!!

[jakesmith]

[Fastdruid]

jakesmith said:

biggbn said:

This is one of the realities at play here, but i would not rule out state intervention from any of the superpowers in any lesser countries political dealings. Instability suits those seeking hegemony

100% this, and I'd imagine the UK was the master of this in the olden days of empire, but we're too stupid / entitled / woke / divided to think about protecting our interests now maybe with this type of subterfuge.

I certainly wouldn't put it past Putin (or rather his cronies, I don't expect him to do it personally!) to make a suggestion along the lines of "You remember Sergei Skripal? You wouldn't want me to send you a present of some perfume would you? So how about you make a large donation to a political party. Doesn't matter which one. Don't hide it".

Then with the other hand they ransack Liam Fox's email account and then share those docs as well.

It is classic playing both sides to cause discord. A nation fighting itself cannot concern itself with what is going on elsewhere.

[Zirconia]

Fastdruid said:

Zirconia said:

I doubt very much that ex Russians are ex Russians but state players.

Well that really depends on how much you believe that the Russian state is prepared to go as well. Generally people who flee and _choose_ a nation to become citizens tend to be more "patriotic" to their chosen nation than one they're merely born to (this also goes the other way round, see all the "home-grown" Islamic terrorists etc).

So, did the Russian state engage in a ~30 year plan to make some people rich then fake them fleeing to become sleeper agents to then publicly fund the Conservative party from their "own" funds...or are they just acting in their selfish self interests?

Much is made of them being "Russian" but these are very rich people who have fled Russia and obtained British citizenship. Again from their utterly selfish perspective they have a highly vested interest in _NOT_ seeing Labour in power. So as a rich person to whom a few million is pocket change do you:

a) Hope for the best.
b) Cosy up to the ruling party and bung them some cash to keep them in power and get some influence.

I genuinely believe that this is incredibly unlikely to be Russian state and far more likely to just be selfish rich people doing rich things. It could even be that the Ex-Russians are more likely to do this for cultural reasons. The only question over if it's related to the Russian State is how much of a falling out they had with Putin, was it a "I'll let you live and flee the country as long as you do x,y,z for me" or do they hate him now?

Note how little is made of the other Foreign born donations to the various parties, or foreign born MP's...Mostly because that then comes off as incredibly racist while Russia (for some good reasons as well as some not so good) is the bogey man so it's acceptable...

EDIT: Just to add here, don't make the mistake in thinking that I think this is OK. I'm very much against it but not because they are Russian born and more because I believe that _any_ large donation from _any_ source to _any_ political party is bad. Be that Unions, Companies, Rich ex-Russians etc etc etc.

Edited by Fastdruid on Tuesday 4th August 10:25

Did you read the Russian report or notice what is going on in the US? There is a long line of coincidences related to Boris as one aspect to this (foreign sec at the time 2016 and a remainer), and the Tory party, 13 ministers have had a benefit from donations, 3.5+ million to the coffers. Putin stands to gain a lot, I doubt very much he has lost influence. Chucking a newspaper editor to the Lords as well.

Remember the Scripols? Or perhaps a cup of tea? One overriding message there, he can reach you. The country you are in is no defence. And what we do in return is nothing. I wouldn't rule out he is not having any control. And I don't buy all the donations are from people who genuinely fled, there is a long game at work here and a lot of money made somewhere and still happening. The results are benefiting Russia.

For you options, if I may.

b. In cosying up, there is a Putin vector to influencing a nation.
c. A party with a bit of sense would have been very careful who they take loot off especially when it is from certain quarters and warned of the issue back some years ago.

Boris is not wanting to take this any further. He sat on the report for a reason, Steele was clear his report went so far and hit the buffers. Boris tried to get that ferry expert buffoon as chair to the new ISC.

At best it is incompetence, at worst collusion.

Corbyn is now a sideline in history but would be interesting to see how he did get to power and he is part of an investigation that is again turning the Tory party into the keystone cops.
Fox now looking like it was a personal email account that was breached? And some in the UK corridors of power want him as head of the WTO. Why did he have this on a private email account?

Remember Patel? She said the report is 2 years old and no longer valid and we now have better things in place, it is now a nothing burger, to borrow a phrase, exact wording is out there somewhere, 24 July was the report. Corbyn got the report last autumn. Far less than 2 years ago. What did they do, change passwords from 12345678 to abcdefgh? Not much use when they have your stuff on a private email and had been reading them for weeks, what else did they get?

Probably wrong but not looking too good at the moment if you step back a look at a lot of what is going on.

Ho hum. Better check for reds under the beds tonight. You never know. Though now it is rubles under the bed. Doesn't rhyme though.

Personally I think donations should go to a large pot and divvied out on the QT as to the source.

[amusingduck]

Zirconia said:

Did you read the Russian report or notice what is going on in the US? There is a long line of coincidences related to Boris as one aspect to this (foreign sec at the time 2016 and a remainer), and the Tory party, 13 ministers have had a benefit from donations, 3.5+ million to the coffers. Putin stands to gain a lot, I doubt very much he has lost influence. Chucking a newspaper editor to the Lords as well.

What does Putin stand to gain?

[Zirconia]

amusingduck said:

Zirconia said:

Did you read the Russian report or notice what is going on in the US? There is a long line of coincidences related to Boris as one aspect to this (foreign sec at the time 2016 and a remainer), and the Tory party, 13 ministers have had a benefit from donations, 3.5+ million to the coffers. Putin stands to gain a lot, I doubt very much he has lost influence. Chucking a newspaper editor to the Lords as well.

What does Putin stand to gain?

A signed copy of Jeffrey Archers next novel.

[bitchstewie]

Seems Jezza thinks it was his own party that cost him the 2017 election.

Jeremy Corbyn accuses Labour officials of sabotaging election campaign

Between that and the complaint about Starmer trying to draw a line under the anti-semitism whistleblower court case it does seem like he doesn't quite get it doesn't it?

[motco]

bhstewie said:

Seems Jezza thinks it was his own party that cost him the 2017 election.

Jeremy Corbyn accuses Labour officials of sabotaging election campaign

Between that and the complaint about Starmer trying to draw a line under the anti-semitism whistleblower court case it does seem like he doesn't quite get it doesn't it?

They almost didn't succeed in 2017 - unlike the December 2019 election.

[anonymous-user]

bhstewie said:

Seems Jezza thinks it was his own party that cost him the 2017 election.

Jeremy Corbyn accuses Labour officials of sabotaging election campaign

Did Boris have any of them on his peerage list?

[SpeckledJim]

Why weren't any of these after-the-fact obstructionists sacked or suspended during the campaign?

I thought he and John and Karie and Jennie and Seamus were in charge?

"send this money and those campaigners over there"

"no"

"you're suspended/sacked."



Not complicated?

[98elise]

bhstewie said:

Seems Jezza thinks it was his own party that cost him the 2017 election.

Jeremy Corbyn accuses Labour officials of sabotaging election campaign

Between that and the complaint about Starmer trying to draw a line under the anti-semitism whistleblower court case it does seem like he doesn't quite get it doesn't it?

He just doesn't get it. His own MP's didn't even have faith in him.

[jtremlett]

It is quite extraordinary that he never takes responsibility for anything.

[Johnnytheboy]

jtremlett said:

It is quite extraordinary that he never takes responsibility for anything.

He is of the hard Left, do they ever?

[BlackLabel]

5years ago today.....

“
Jeremy Corbyn has been elected leader of the British Labour party, in a stunning first-round victory that dwarfed even the mandate for Tony Blair in 1994”


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/12/j...

[nikaiyo2]

Who would think that electing a traitorous old communist would lead to election disaster.

[coolg]

Despite Owen writing a book about him he hasn’t mentioned this on twitter yet

[anonymous-user]

nikaiyo2 said:

Who would think that electing a traitorous old communist would lead to election disaster.

And damage the party for years.

Mind you they got a lot more support than I was expecting tbh.