Jeremy Corbyn (Vol. 4)
Discussion
El stovey said:
Hopefully the GE will go badly for them and he’ll be replaced by a credible alternative and we'll have a functional opposition again.
I agree. I fear it will be very difficult, if not impossible, for the moderates to wrestle the Labour party back from the Momentum crazies though.vaud said:
A Winner Is You said:
Has there ever been a leader of a major party who hates his own country as much as this man?
https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/119911874818937...
While I hate to say it, he has a point. At school "The Empire", when mentioned was painted in a very positive light "sun never set on the flag", etc and all the wonderful things the British did (railways, law, schools, etc) and hence only told half the story.https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/119911874818937...
History is written by the winners, but a more balanced narrative might be of value in education.
vaud said:
While I hate to say it, he has a point. At school "The Empire", when mentioned was painted in a very positive light "sun never set on the flag", etc and all the wonderful things the British did (railways, law, schools, etc) and hence only told half the story.
History is written by the winners, but a more balanced narrative might be of value in education.
I think many do have a balanced education of the British Empire.History is written by the winners, but a more balanced narrative might be of value in education.
Certainly when in school I was taught about events that occurred that are now seen as either "positive" or "negative", "good" or "bad" etc.
For example I think it was on the curriculum to be taught about the slave trade, the opium wars, the many battles fought by the british navy etc. etc.
The problem today is that history is being used for political gain.
The left wing of politics especially is using cherry picked events of british history to shame traditional conservative mind sets in to turning against traditional conservative values.
The slave trade especially is often cited, painting a picture that only the british were involved in trading slaves. In fact trading of slaves was around way before the roman and egyptian times. It was a well established trade in Africa, conducted by the peoples/tribes of Africa well before the europeans invaded Africa.
However it was the British that brought about the end of such global 'trade'.
The "empire" and "colonial" aspect is again something that is cherry picked and painted as a "shameful" thing ,but this is how the world simply was back in those days.
It was a choice in many cases of either to conquer or be conquered. It wasn't until WWI and WWII where the loss of life became such in number that any future conflicts had to be seriously thought about. the introduction of nuclear weapons and "MAD" saw to it that world wars are (hopefully) a thing of history. But this is how the world developed and its only for political gain when certain types will cheery pick events and twist morals and reason whilst looking back in a position of hindsight.
Burwood said:
It's not a vote winner though. It's as though he doesn't really want gain power
There was a character in a Joseph Heller novel who was described as a brilliant tactician in office politics whose fatal mistake was to overestimate the importance of office politics in getting to the top.Read internal Labour/trade union politics for office politics and that describes a lot of the Labour left. They have got where they are by pushing whatever will appeal other lefties activists and union officials rather than the world at large. Then find they can't take the next step because in doing so they have alienated anyone vaguely normal, and being able to exploit every obscure rule in the party rulebook is no substitute for knowing anything about the outside world.
Tony Benn was a classic example.
Burwood said:
vaud said:
A Winner Is You said:
Has there ever been a leader of a major party who hates his own country as much as this man?
https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/119911874818937...
While I hate to say it, he has a point. At school "The Empire", when mentioned was painted in a very positive light "sun never set on the flag", etc and all the wonderful things the British did (railways, law, schools, etc) and hence only told half the story.https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/119911874818937...
History is written by the winners, but a more balanced narrative might be of value in education.
A Winner Is You said:
Has there ever been a leader of a major party who hates his own country as much as this man?
https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/119911874818937...
Why is it that 'Britain' is forever held accountable for all the shttps://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/119911874818937...
t that was done in the past and you'll see people online talk about present day British as if we were directly responsible for all of that yet you never see the same people holding Germany or the Germans accountable for all their heinous st during WWII, the blame is always laid on "the Nazis". Dr Jekyll said:
Burwood said:
It's not a vote winner though. It's as though he doesn't really want gain power
There was a character in a Joseph Heller novel who was described as a brilliant tactician in office politics whose fatal mistake was to overestimate the importance of office politics in getting to the top.Read internal Labour/trade union politics for office politics and that describes a lot of the Labour left. They have got where they are by pushing whatever will appeal other lefties activists and union officials rather than the world at large. Then find they can't take the next step because in doing so they have alienated anyone vaguely normal, and being able to exploit every obscure rule in the party rulebook is no substitute for knowing anything about the outside world.
Tony Benn was a classic example.
The reality is that Corbyn and his close cronies are perpetual protestors and have actually been reasonably effective at same, but that's very different to being in power
Their ideas were never going to stand the scrutiny of actually becoming legislation - they simply aren't workable in the real world
Zirconia said:
Is teaching what happened worse than "when all the world was pink" halcyon days? I don't know what they teach now, not been in school for some years. I remember our class room with all the pink maps up. We won the war on our lonesome and all that.
Then you did not listen or read, don't blame the teaching because you could not be arsed to even read a book and take in a modicum of what was on the pages.Zirconia said:
Is teaching what happened worse than "when all the world was pink" halcyon days? I don't know what they teach now, not been in school for some years. I remember our class room with all the pink maps up. We won the war on our lonesome and all that.
The two history teachers I had the pleasure of listening to (that's what we did, mostly) were very up on Russia and down on the USA when discussing WW2. Around that time, I went on holiday to Hungary when it was still behind the iron curtain and the state-appointed tour guides sounded like my history teachers.jonby said:
I think that's a really good point
The reality is that Corbyn and his close cronies are perpetual protestors and have actually been reasonably effective at same, but that's very different to being in power
Their ideas were never going to stand the scrutiny of actually becoming legislation - they simply aren't workable in the real world
Well, quite. But they can do a lot of damage attempting to get these things to work before the obvious failure occurs - damage that potentially can’t be undone or will take a long, long time to work out of the system. I would rather they were not given the opportunity to try!The reality is that Corbyn and his close cronies are perpetual protestors and have actually been reasonably effective at same, but that's very different to being in power
Their ideas were never going to stand the scrutiny of actually becoming legislation - they simply aren't workable in the real world
Garvin said:
jonby said:
I think that's a really good point
The reality is that Corbyn and his close cronies are perpetual protestors and have actually been reasonably effective at same, but that's very different to being in power
Their ideas were never going to stand the scrutiny of actually becoming legislation - they simply aren't workable in the real world
Well, quite. But they can do a lot of damage attempting to get these things to work before the obvious failure occurs - damage that potentially can’t be undone or will take a long, long time to work out of the system. I would rather they were not given the opportunity to try!The reality is that Corbyn and his close cronies are perpetual protestors and have actually been reasonably effective at same, but that's very different to being in power
Their ideas were never going to stand the scrutiny of actually becoming legislation - they simply aren't workable in the real world
I'm talking about the scrutiny they come under when preparing a manifesto, not coming into actual power
It would appear that for many voters, they have gone so far in their ambitions in the manifesto that people just take one look at it and realize it's a fantasy world. On top of that, even if the costings are to be believed, in just a few days since the manifesto was launched, they have admitted the broadband plan is not costed correctly and they have added the WASPI compensation which they admit is not costed or even factored in to the manifesto
Dont like rolls said:
Zirconia said:
Is teaching what happened worse than "when all the world was pink" halcyon days? I don't know what they teach now, not been in school for some years. I remember our class room with all the pink maps up. We won the war on our lonesome and all that.
Then you did not listen or read, don't blame the teaching because you could not be arsed to even read a book and take in a modicum of what was on the pages.TheRealNoNeedy said:
Weird that he's only 9 years younger than Corbyn.turbobloke said:
The two history teachers I had the pleasure of listening to (that's what we did, mostly) were very up on Russia and down on the USA when discussing WW2. Around that time, I went on holiday to Hungary when it was still behind the iron curtain and the state-appointed tour guides sounded like my history teachers.
Said school with pink maps is now a housing estate.Some of our later year classes descended into who had the best tank and rifle for the whole session. Didn't feature on my horizon for O levels and dropped it when I had to choose. People fell asleep in those lessons.
Fortunately my family was big on reading and I picked up a lot there especially the background to many events. Always loads of books from the library doing the rounds at the house.
jonby said:
Well of course !
I'm talking about the scrutiny they come under when preparing a manifesto, not coming into actual power
It would appear that for many voters, they have gone so far in their ambitions in the manifesto that people just take one look at it and realize it's a fantasy world. On top of that, even if the costings are to be believed, in just a few days since the manifesto was launched, they have admitted the broadband plan is not costed correctly and they have added the WASPI compensation which they admit is not costed or even factored in to the manifesto
We should tweet the idiots and ask where we pick up our free Unicorns when they win?I'm talking about the scrutiny they come under when preparing a manifesto, not coming into actual power
It would appear that for many voters, they have gone so far in their ambitions in the manifesto that people just take one look at it and realize it's a fantasy world. On top of that, even if the costings are to be believed, in just a few days since the manifesto was launched, they have admitted the broadband plan is not costed correctly and they have added the WASPI compensation which they admit is not costed or even factored in to the manifesto
jonby said:
Garvin said:
jonby said:
I think that's a really good point
The reality is that Corbyn and his close cronies are perpetual protestors and have actually been reasonably effective at same, but that's very different to being in power
Their ideas were never going to stand the scrutiny of actually becoming legislation - they simply aren't workable in the real world
Well, quite. But they can do a lot of damage attempting to get these things to work before the obvious failure occurs - damage that potentially can’t be undone or will take a long, long time to work out of the system. I would rather they were not given the opportunity to try!The reality is that Corbyn and his close cronies are perpetual protestors and have actually been reasonably effective at same, but that's very different to being in power
Their ideas were never going to stand the scrutiny of actually becoming legislation - they simply aren't workable in the real world
I'm talking about the scrutiny they come under when preparing a manifesto, not coming into actual power
It would appear that for many voters, they have gone so far in their ambitions in the manifesto that people just take one look at it and realize it's a fantasy world. On top of that, even if the costings are to be believed, in just a few days since the manifesto was launched, they have admitted the broadband plan is not costed correctly and they have added the WASPI compensation which they admit is not costed or even factored in to the manifesto
The costings are, apparently, based on absolutely nothing changing i.e. nobody takes any action to mitigate the ‘onslaught’. I have news for Labour, this microcosm of one has already sorted out the mitigation action to minimise the effects of their promises so they can reduce their increased tax take by my small amount at least. I can’t imagine nobody else will do similar!
The WASPI is costed and it is funded from the emergency funding bucket, that bucket that they say all governments have to deal with such things. After all it’s only a mere £58Bn and can be waved away with one hand!
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