The Reform Party Vol No1
Discussion
ATG said:
catweasle said:
no comments on electoral reform or abolition of the HOL?
both good causes IMO
Both complex issues that Farage will reduce to a simplistic tosh that he can spoon-feed to his gullible supporters. He peddles outrage to people who like to feel outraged. People who like to feel outraged aren't really interested in thinking too much because at some level they know the problem isn't the rest of us. Farage's formula works to some extent; it finances Nige as a sole trader quite handsomely. But it never scales up to form a viable political party because when you get enough of his true believers in one room it becomes immediately obvious that you've got a room full of irrational, untrusting, disaffected loons who can't agree a damn thing. Far from reforming anything, Farage is a parasitic little charlatan who has done huge damage to democracy.both good causes IMO
Great summary.
ATG said:
Both complex issues that Farage will reduce to a simplistic tosh that he can spoon-feed to his gullible supporters. He peddles outrage to people who like to feel outraged. People who like to feel outraged aren't really interested in thinking too much because at some level they know the problem isn't the rest of us. Farage's formula works to some extent; it finances Nige as a sole trader quite handsomely. But it never scales up to form a viable political party because when you get enough of his true believers in one room it becomes immediately obvious that you've got a room full of irrational, untrusting, disaffected loons who can't agree a damn thing. Far from reforming anything, Farage is a parasitic little charlatan who has done huge damage to democracy.
current politicians are (predominantly) parasitic little charlatans who have done huge damage to democracyATG said:
Both complex issues that Farage will reduce to a simplistic tosh that he can spoon-feed to his gullible supporters. He peddles outrage to people who like to feel outraged. People who like to feel outraged aren't really interested in thinking too much because at some level they know the problem isn't the rest of us. Farage's formula works to some extent; it finances Nige as a sole trader quite handsomely. But it never scales up to form a viable political party because when you get enough of his true believers in one room it becomes immediately obvious that you've got a room full of irrational, untrusting, disaffected loons who can't agree a damn thing. Far from reforming anything, Farage is a parasitic little charlatan who has done huge damage to democracy.
Leaving it late for post of the year, but you’re a definite contender. catweasle said:
if that's you engaging then perhaps you should disengage
You’re getting sanctimonious ?
As you’ll know, because you’ve been around here a good deal longer than your current incarnation, create a deliberately trolling thread then don’t be surprised if people take the piss.
catweasle said:
current politicians are (predominantly) parasitic little charlatans who have done huge damage to democracy
Except they're not. If you really cared you could get involved and meet a few of them. That'd allow you to make an informed judgement.The level of political engagement in this country is so feeble that if you make any effort (e.g. helping shove some leaflets through the door) you'll rapidly start meeting MPs and the party machine, such as it is. My wife has done that this year and so far has been asked to consider standing for the district council and to stand in for the would-be MP at one of local hustings. She's bright and able, but she has no political experience, yet so few people make any contribution to politics that, having shown herself to be a little bit willing, people are desperate for her to contribute more and more. Political parties aren't great hierarchical structures headed by disconnected elites. They are wide, shallow organisations that run on shoe-string budgets and rely on people's sense of civic duty.
Brooking10 said:
catweasle said:
no comments on electoral reform or abolition of the HOL?
both good causes IMO
What does if I ally will change of the Lords is abolished !both good causes IMO
It’s classic Farage gammon and chav rousing class warfare
It’s massively ironic too that an unelectee, on account of being proven unelectable, “politician” is calling for abolition of members of an unelected chamber.
ATG said:
Except they're not. If you really cared you could get involved and meet a few of them. That'd allow you to make an informed judgement.
The level of political engagement in this country is so feeble that if you make any effort (e.g. helping shove some leaflets through the door) you'll rapidly start meeting MPs and the party machine, such as it is. My wife has done that this year and so far has been asked to consider standing for the district council and to stand in for the would-be MP at one of local hustings. She's bright and able, but she has no political experience, yet so few people make any contribution to politics that, having shown herself to be a little bit willing, people are desperate for her to contribute more and more. Political parties aren't great hierarchical structures headed by disconnected elites. They are wide, shallow organisations that run on shoe-string budgets and rely on people's sense of civic duty.
Tish, be off with you with your rational argument.The level of political engagement in this country is so feeble that if you make any effort (e.g. helping shove some leaflets through the door) you'll rapidly start meeting MPs and the party machine, such as it is. My wife has done that this year and so far has been asked to consider standing for the district council and to stand in for the would-be MP at one of local hustings. She's bright and able, but she has no political experience, yet so few people make any contribution to politics that, having shown herself to be a little bit willing, people are desperate for her to contribute more and more. Political parties aren't great hierarchical structures headed by disconnected elites. They are wide, shallow organisations that run on shoe-string budgets and rely on people's sense of civic duty.
Anything to do with Farage has to be all about Farage. Once the EU/Brexit gravy train has terminated, it's on to the next platform.
I don't think he gives two hoots about the EU or the HoL, he's just a chancer who realised there's brass and attention to be won by appealing to terminally-enraged pub bores, racists and criminals who like to have more opinions than thoughts.
I don't think he gives two hoots about the EU or the HoL, he's just a chancer who realised there's brass and attention to be won by appealing to terminally-enraged pub bores, racists and criminals who like to have more opinions than thoughts.
gooner1 said:
Brooking10 said:
catweasle said:
no comments on electoral reform or abolition of the HOL?
both good causes IMO
What does if I ally will change of the Lords is abolished !both good causes IMO
It’s classic Farage gammon and chav rousing class warfare
It’s massively ironic too that an unelectee, on account of being proven unelectable, “politician” is calling for abolition of members of an unelected chamber.
Message is clear though to all but the deliberately obstreperous
What will actually change if the HOL is abolished ?
Isn’t it ironic that an unelected politician who now actively refuses to stand for election is apparently going to be campaigning for the abolition of a cadre of unelected politicians ?
As a more precise typist than I said earlier it’s just another rabble rousing pitch to the disaffected.
Will he be getting your continued support ?
Brooking10 said:
Snippy/
it’s just another rabble rousing pitch to the disaffected.
/snipsnip!
It depends how many people are dissatisfied with our political system. it’s just another rabble rousing pitch to the disaffected.
/snipsnip!
If it turns out the majority agree then who are we to argue?
I'd think that at least any parties with a pro-HOL argument will have to do a good job of promoting the virtues of that house in order to protect it, or at least a willingness to reform, in our political system, will save it.
We shall see if he obtains enough support for this, after all he's not the first to challenge that house.
ATG said:
catweasle said:
current politicians are (predominantly) parasitic little charlatans who have done huge damage to democracy
Except they're not. If you really cared you could get involved and meet a few of them. That'd allow you to make an informed judgement.The level of political engagement in this country is so feeble that if you make any effort (e.g. helping shove some leaflets through the door) you'll rapidly start meeting MPs and the party machine, such as it is. My wife has done that this year and so far has been asked to consider standing for the district council and to stand in for the would-be MP at one of local hustings. She's bright and able, but she has no political experience, yet so few people make any contribution to politics that, having shown herself to be a little bit willing, people are desperate for her to contribute more and more. Political parties aren't great hierarchical structures headed by disconnected elites. They are wide, shallow organisations that run on shoe-string budgets and rely on people's sense of civic duty.
etc think about your career not making a difference ,tell people what they want to hear ,be insipid .... she will be a local councillor in no time and good chance of becoming an MP...
catweasle said:
no comments on electoral reform or abolition of the HOL?
both good causes IMO
Not sure there's much point trying to discuss it between those who descend on these threads to derail them.both good causes IMO
Has there been anything said about what the electoral reform would be? I'm assuming he'd be after PR given his experiences, but that misses some benefits of FPTP. I think it'd be more popular than AV just because it's less complicated.
The HoL is an undemocratic, weak control, but I think it broadly works in practice. I suspect Farage has misjudged the mood on these two and particularly the overlap with his existing support base - though maybe that's deliberate, perhaps we'll see the champagne socialists singing his praises in time.
catweasle said:
no comments on electoral reform or abolition of the HOL?
both good causes IMO
Excellent causes, if it's one thing the UK does well it's apathy, and deafness, and probably a tonne of other things. both good causes IMO
STV would get my vote, along with 'none-of-the-above, and an elected second chamber, perhaps by sortition, citizen's assembly maybe?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_transferable_...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/None_of_the_above#Un...
https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/campaigns/elec...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_assembly
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_voting#Ar...
Halb said:
Excellent causes, if it's one thing the UK does well it's apathy, and deafness, and probably a tonne of other things.
STV would get my vote, along with 'none-of-the-above, and an elected second chamber, perhaps by sortition, citizen's assembly maybe?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_transferable_...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/None_of_the_above#Un...
https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/campaigns/elec...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_assembly
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_voting#Ar...
I wonder if the ERS would see Farage and his new / renamed party as a threat to them or something / someone to ally with in order to achieve their raisons d'etre?STV would get my vote, along with 'none-of-the-above, and an elected second chamber, perhaps by sortition, citizen's assembly maybe?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_transferable_...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/None_of_the_above#Un...
https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/campaigns/elec...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_assembly
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_voting#Ar...
eta link:
https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/voting-systems...
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 9th December 10:13
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