Election 2019 V2
Discussion
Brave Fart said:
Did the Tories move to the right, really? I remember watching Theresa Mays 2015 speech outside Downing Street; she was speaking about inclusivity and "those just about getting by" and I thought it was actually rather Blairite in tone. Looking at the current Tory manifesto, it's full of promises about funding public services, raising the minimum wage, increasing the NI threshold, and strikes me as centrist, not at all right wing.
It was a good speech but having made it she then utterly failed to put any of it into action, then after 2017 lacked a majority to much of anything. Boris is making similar speeches, but as with Trump it's going to be important to watch what he does rather than put any weight at all on what he says, as a lot of it is bulls
t.V6 Pushfit said:
ChocolateFrog said:
Clueless. It’s called Democracy Luv.Edited by V6 Pushfit on Saturday 14th December 21:15
JuanCarlosFandango said:
13.6 million votes. More than Blair in 1997.
On any measure it's an astonishing achievement, especially after 9 years of fairly chaotic Tory led governments and the debacle of Brexit so far.
What about as a percentage of eligible voters? We’re a bigger population now so there should be more people voting?On any measure it's an astonishing achievement, especially after 9 years of fairly chaotic Tory led governments and the debacle of Brexit so far.
turbobloke said:
jsf said:
Derek Smith said:
Even if Cameron was centrist, which I doubt can be a justified claim under any criteria, the labour party did pretty well, reducing the tories to a minority government. Under Corbyn, the party moved left as the tory party moved right. No one is in the centre now.
The Tories moved to the centre ground under Boris. How can you not see that?Derek Smith said:
S1KRR said:
crankedup said:
Agreed, definitely needs a New Labour to come out of the ashes leaving ‘Momentum’ to go their own way (into oblivion hopefully). Not splitting away consigns Labour to the dustbin.
Was it after the defeat in 2010 or 2015 that they decided that being Centre left, against Camerons centerist Conservatives, was a losing strategy?
djohnson said:
V6 Pushfit said:
ChocolateFrog said:
Clueless. It’s called Democracy Luv."So proud of my friend Ophelia for these inspiring words.
If we really care about equality, we need to find a way to stop working class people from voting."
https://twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath/status/12058592...
BBC reporting that Corbyn and McDonnell have apologised for Labour's defeat. Up to a point... Corbyn has apologised to his supporters for not winning the election (while continuing to insist that Labour won all the arguments), and McDonnell has apologised for not being able to overcome the Right-wing media bias. I'm not sure that quite merits the headline "Labour leadership takes blame over election result".
AstonZagato said:
djohnson said:
V6 Pushfit said:
ChocolateFrog said:
Clueless. It’s called Democracy Luv."So proud of my friend Ophelia for these inspiring words.
If we really care about equality, we need to find a way to stop working class people from voting."
https://twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath/status/12058592...
Christmas has indeed come early.
I voted Conservative and expected a majority after the previous three years of some trying to stop democracy,The people have spoken and it is a wonderful thing to see.The poisonous left have been put to bed and now the grown ups can get on with moving the UK forward as i am sure the Conservatives will.The brexit induced meltdown of the hard left is pure gold to witness as a casual observer, they absolutely had it coming.Congratulations to Boris and his good lady and here's to the next five years and beyond with the adults in charge.
I am genuinely going to the local very nice Wetherspoons tomorrow for a brexit breakfast and several pints of brewdog.
Happy Christmas to all.
Ian Geary said:
I'm reading quite a bit of bile from Sturgeon this morning, about being locked in a cupboard(?) by England.
And Westminster can't reject the mandate she has for independence.
Yet if you add together all the Scottish votes for parties not supporting independence, then - you've guessed it - they outnumber the votes cast for independence.
Am I doing this right?
Isn't democracy confusing...
Well the number of votes AGAINST the conservatives/brexit parties outweighed the number of votes for the conservatives. And Westminster can't reject the mandate she has for independence.
Yet if you add together all the Scottish votes for parties not supporting independence, then - you've guessed it - they outnumber the votes cast for independence.
Am I doing this right?
Isn't democracy confusing...
You don’t need a majority to do something as the conservatives have shown. So what’s your point?
sugerbear said:
Well the number of votes AGAINST the conservatives/brexit parties outweighed the number of votes for the conservatives.
You don’t need a majority to do something as the conservatives have shown. So what’s your point?
Err you do for a referendum which is what she wants.You don’t need a majority to do something as the conservatives have shown. So what’s your point?
Robertj21a said:
Derek Smith said:
S1KRR said:
crankedup said:
Agreed, definitely needs a New Labour to come out of the ashes leaving ‘Momentum’ to go their own way (into oblivion hopefully). Not splitting away consigns Labour to the dustbin.
Was it after the defeat in 2010 or 2015 that they decided that being Centre left, against Camerons centerist Conservatives, was a losing strategy?I don't know anyone called Derek anymore they're all dead - he must be senile
i4got said:
Err you do for a referendum which is what she wants.
Also as in leaving the EU there has already been a referendum which the SNP "Lost" by about the same amount the "Lost" this election. so yes not much of mandate, the "Peoples vote" coalition, if anything, have a better argument. hidetheelephants said:
Brave Fart said:
Did the Tories move to the right, really? I remember watching Theresa Mays 2015 speech outside Downing Street; she was speaking about inclusivity and "those just about getting by" and I thought it was actually rather Blairite in tone. Looking at the current Tory manifesto, it's full of promises about funding public services, raising the minimum wage, increasing the NI threshold, and strikes me as centrist, not at all right wing.
It was a good speech but having made it she then utterly failed to put any of it into action, then after 2017 lacked a majority to much of anything. Boris is making similar speeches, but as with Trump it's going to be important to watch what he does rather than put any weight at all on what he says, as a lot of it is bullst.He has an enviable majority made up of MPs who you would expect to be loyal if they're clever, so he can do almost anything he wants for the next 5 years. Especially against an opposition who won less seats than Michael Foot.
D-Angle said:
think he just might follow through, the impression I got from his first speech post-result was that he is under no illusion of where those extra votes have come from. A lot of those people could go back to type and vote Labour in 2025 if Johnson doesn't give them a reason to stick with that choice. The Tories have a lot of new voters in demographics they might have traditionally ignored in the past, and I think he's aware that he needs to give them tangible improvements in their lives to make them see that change in voting habit as a good move on their part. The tone he struck comes across as knowing that he was lent votes rather than given them.
He has an enviable majority made up of MPs who you would expect to be loyal if they're clever, so he can do almost anything he wants for the next 5 years. Especially against an opposition who won less seats than Michael Foot.
Very true. He will have a lot of brand new MPs, anxious to please, and got rid of some whingeing deadwood along the way. He has significant freedom to push on, at a pace. Perhaps those electoral boundaries would be a good place to start.He has an enviable majority made up of MPs who you would expect to be loyal if they're clever, so he can do almost anything he wants for the next 5 years. Especially against an opposition who won less seats than Michael Foot.
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