So what now for the Labour party?

[Gribs]

Johnnytheboy said:

As I said on another thread, the idea is to win people over to your POV, not label them as the enemy.

The Tories made no such attempt and won. There's no need to with our electoral system. They identified enough leave voters would vote for them so there was no need to try and attract remain voters. There's just not enough people who will vote for this manifesto when it's led by Corbyn.

[B'stard Child]

Johnnytheboy said:

Sheets Tabuer said:

This is whats wrong with the left, they don't think you have a different point of view, they think you are wrong.

https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/ea21n...

As I said on another thread, the idea is to win people over to your POV, not label them as the enemy.

And that's exactly what labour supporters on SM did called anyone who was supporting Tory evil s so us evil s shut up - now they don't understand why there are so many evil s in the UK

I'm however not an evil cos I voted MRLP

[Smollet]

What’s worse than being outsmarted and outmanoeuvred being outsmarted and outmanoeuvred by a buffoon

[Smollet]

B'stard Child said:

I'm however not an evil cos I voted MRLP

I did the very same in 2017. I found it quite invigorating. This time I voted for Raab as the LibDems were making inroads to my constituency and I couldn’t have them taking the seat. Baron Badger missed out this time. Maybe next. Who knows?

[confused_buyer]

Labour were incredibly lucky this time round that the Lib Dems had Swinson and a car crash of a campaign.

Had the Libs held onto their original 18-20% vote share at the start of the campaign Labour could easily have been sub 150 seats and Johnson with a 150+ majority.

[alfaspecial]

Regarding Brexit, Corbyn’s biggest mistake was appointing arch Remainer Keir Starmer as Brexit Secretary and allowing the metropolitan elite - who act as if they own the party - to dominate the debate, forgetting the interests of Leave voters
(6/10 Labour Constituencies voted Leave, according to FullFacts)
https://fullfact.org/europe/did-majority-conservat...


The correct thing to do would have been to have a campaign for a "Brexit for the Many, not the Few"
Labour could have used the Parliamentary arithmetic to support (a Labour-friendly version of) Theresa May’s Deal:
Accept the country voted Leave but fight for a good deal for all UK citizens.

But no. The anti-Brexit Secretary (Starmer) thought he was being clever fighting every aspect of Brexit as though it was a battle. He forgot that, just like in war, the only REALLY important battle is the last one - which has been the 2019 GE.

Johnson will put through the Boundary Commission changes - the current constituencies favour Labour - so Labour could be out of power for a decade
https://boundarycommissionforengland.independent.g...

Blame Corbyn by all means - as Leader/Loser he is an easy target - but understand that the jerks who run the party, by labelling Leavers as racists / Little Englanders - lost the election.

As a lesson to themselves, the Labour Party’s political tombstone should be inscribed "A Brexit for the Many, not the Few"

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

JackThrust said:

Labour really sh*t the bed in 2010 when they chose the wrong Milliband to lead them, it's all been downhill since then. Corbyn's complete inability to admit when he's wrong is ridiculous, this is Labour's worst defeat since 1935, he should be holding his hands up and bowing out gracefully, but he's just desperate to cling to any kind of power. His ego is astounding.

Pre-fking-cisely. I'd wager they'd be back in had they chosen David.

[colin_p]

I think they should rename themselves the Labrador party, who doesn't love a Labrador. There is one for everyone, black, chocolate and blonde ones, everyone should be happy.

I then think, as part of their manifesto, that they should pledge to offer everyone a free Labrador.


Picture below of some cute Labrador pups

[anonymous-user]

confused_buyer said:

Labour were incredibly lucky this time round that the Lib Dems had Swinson and a car crash of a campaign.

Had the Libs held onto their original 18-20% vote share at the start of the campaign Labour could easily have been sub 150 seats and Johnson with a 150+ majority.

Plus labour wouldn’t enter into voting pacts with the libdems/snp/greens or agree to not have Corbyn lead the proposed remainer government of national unity months ago.

Still amazing that with Corby they got as many votes as they did, especially that even traditional voting areas started turning against them.

[plasticpig]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

In fact they voted for a Thatcherite Conservative government.

Nope they really didn't. Bojo is an old fashioned one nation Tory. A Thatcherite manifesto would include things like abolishing the minimum wage because the price of labour should be dictated by the market. Thatcherism is all about reducing the size of the state and minimalising intervention in the market. It wouldn't include any of the paternalistic claptrap that is in the conservative manifesto.

[Derek Smith]

Labour internal procedures go towards ensuring a continuance of the status quo with regards to direction of the party. Added to that we have activists working within constituencies to ensure left leaning candidates are picked. Taking everything into consideration, the centre ground is something they will not aim for. The labour constitution is against it.

However, traditional labour voters jumped ship and moved to the tory party. Not massively, but significantly. One poll suggests 31% of those who changed sides did so because of brexit. That’s a fair number, and a group that will have no allegiance to the tories once that’s done. Added to that, more changed side because of the Corbyn effect. That’s now gone.

If Johnson messes up – and I make no comment – the old labour voters will leave in all probability. Some of the traditional tory voters might move as well; not to labour but to the libdems.

The problem is that in such a case, we’ll get a hard left labour party in government.

I doubt, and hope, it is likely. But stranger things have happened.

The tory party had a 1.2% swing. Floating voters are the ones who decide what party rules and they outnumber those who moved. Of more note is the all but 8% swing away from labour. That’s comforting at first sight, but not impossible to overcome.

I’m hoping for a resurgence of the libdems. It’s a possibility of course, but if they take votes away from the tory party, then a resurging labour party could well become the biggest individual party at the next election.

The voting pattern is one that we are not used to. Making assumptions on what the likely long term effects of it will be is, at best, a guess.

Much might depend on who labour pick as a replacement for Corbyn. Much might depend on who the libdems pick as a replacement for Swinson. There’s a fair bit of money floating around that used to go to various parties. The party that sucks up to such benefactors might be the one that succeeds.

[JuanCarlosFandango]

plasticpig said:

JuanCarlosFandango said:

In fact they voted for a Thatcherite Conservative government.

Nope they really didn't. Bojo is an old fashioned one nation Tory. A Thatcherite manifesto would include things like abolishing the minimum wage because the price of labour should be dictated by the market. Thatcherism is all about reducing the size of the state and minimalising intervention in the market. It wouldn't include any of the paternalistic claptrap that is in the conservative manifesto.

Fair comment, that was a bit of a lazy shorthand. It's not Thatcherism, but an evolution of that rather than of the progressive corporatism of the Major wing of the party.

[Hereward]

Hereward said:

It will be very interesting to see what happens with McDonnell. He is the real power/danger in the current line-up and Momentum will want to keep him in position. In a normal political party his position is now completely untenable, but these guys have such an unshakeable sense of moral superiority that I cannot see him resigning. Someone needs to push him but Momentum would surely block that.

I voted Tory because I could never vote for Marxism. I will never vote Labour for as long as Momentum/McDonnell/Milne have control.

He's gone

[Jasandjules]

BOR said:

I hope Johnson goes Full Tory on them, as he is quite entitled to do.

Don't come cryng to the opposition to save you from what you yourselves voted for.

A strong opposition helps to keep the Govt in check. We have a system of checks and balances.

PS, regardless of who I vote for or who is in power, I want to see a strong enough opposition to prevent massive abuses of power.

[Johnnytheboy]

egor110 said:

Johnnytheboy said:

Labour is a fundamentally unstable coalition of the metropolitan internationalist chattering class wing and the old-Labour trades union wing (with the public sector/benefits recipient constituency spread between the two).

The first two often have diametric positions on issues.

This is wonderfully illustrated by things like the "we'll build the Trident subs then not arm them with missiles" debacle, or of course Brexit.

Worse: they need the former wing for the membership and activist base, the latter for money.

Yet that trade union base has voted for conservatives .

I'm a member of the cwu , now bear in mind labour we're on about nationalising royal mail , barely anyone i work with voted for labour .

Yes we might belong to a union , but more and more staff are paying the union fee's but not the political levy and the days of the union saying vote labour and us all voting labour are long gone .

I think we are agreeing more than you imagine - that's my point, that Corbyn is very much of the 'Islington Wing', he only likes the union members for their money.

Though for my part, I'm very relaxed about union members not voting en bloc.

[williamp]

What next?? Lilly Allen needs to release a charity single. Could be christmas number 1 with the right momentum behind it..

[crofty1984]

Nickgnome said:

P5BNij said:

At last some sense from you Nick, I wish more of your posts were like this. Sounds like the Labour guy you mention might've been Richard Burgon.

I think it was. There was a female labour politician on later, she was taking the same line. Ken Clarke and David Blunkett were on as well. I didn’t catch much of it but they seem to put her in her place.

Yes, I listened to that. Ken and David were very good. The other bloke was a little bit silly. In the same way that Stalin was a little bit naughty.

[crofty1984]

T6 vanman said:

BOR said:

First of all, staggering as it may seem, I sometimes have other, more important things to do.

Second, why do you want to deny people who voluntairily voted Conservative, to be denied the full fat impact of what they were promised and what they, again, voluntarily voted for ?

So you mean unemployment down to historic levels, and comparing to near EU countries (France) less that half their figures
Historic employment rates
Seismic reduction in poverty in pensioners
Unparalleled historic spending on healthcare & the NHS
Reduction in the catastrophic economically damaging overspend within government departments (Deficit) by record tax intake
Reduction between inequity between the rich and poor
Lifting millions out of poverty through increasing tax thresholds
Improving school results,
Historic levels of Doctors & Nurses

Sign me up …….Oh sorry ..was that what I did yesterday with my X
(Factory worker & Family man)

You missed out changing the stamp duty rules. When my wife and I bought our first house in late 2014, the evil tories made our SD bill go down to about £800 from what would have been double that. bds.

[tali1]

Wills2 said:

Killer2005 said:

Gargamel said:

Just watching Faisal Shaheen on Newsnight, I don’t think she gets it.

It was all the Meeja’s fault. All British Prime Ministers are chosen by Rupert Murdoch apparently.

Was just going to comment the same.

She was saying that they'll take an introspective look at how they lost the general election, completely ignoring the good points Jack straw was making, meanwhile they lost because of the media bias.

Jack straw came across well and was making some valid points, even admitted that Corbyn was too close to Hamas, Hezbollah and the IRA. But still it's the media's fault that they lost.

Yeah it was the medias fault for pointing out all the flaws....it always is, that's the trouble with a free press.

This is one of the claims

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSpdcdCWAAAMArj.jpg

Edited by tali1 on Saturday 14th December 19:39

[robm3]

Robertj21a said:

kev1974 said:

Well given the number of whinging crying marxists on twitter bitterly insisting this morning that they want to migrate elsewhere, I can only see labour support going down from this point ...

Perhaps Boris could reinstate those £10 Assisted Passage arrangements so that we can ensure they are shipped off to distant lands.

No more £10 poms for Australia thanks, we're firmly centre right at the moment.

But here's an idea, South Africa is imploding, perhaps they could go there and add their socialist values to the mixing pot. That'll put SA back on track for sure!