So what now for the Labour party?
Discussion
BOR said:
Why do we ?
The northern voters have just stabbed in the back probably the only politician who would have gone into bat for them, and voted for the most venal, cowardly, lying Conservative leader of my lifetime..
A millionaire privately educated Islington career politician called Jeremy was going to go to bat for the North East?The northern voters have just stabbed in the back probably the only politician who would have gone into bat for them, and voted for the most venal, cowardly, lying Conservative leader of my lifetime..
This idea that the plebs in the regions don’t understand what they were voting for is unbelievably patronising, and a large part of the reason that Labour were given such a hiding.
BOR said:
First of all, staggering as it may seem, I sometimes have other, more important things to do.
Second, why do you want to deny people who voluntairily voted Conservative, to be denied the full fat impact of what they were promised and what they, again, voluntarily voted for ?
What do you think will be the negative impact on me then? I voted for them, after reading both manifestos, and choosing which I thought offered the best for the UK. What do you think that I deserve for this, and what do you think will happen to me?Second, why do you want to deny people who voluntairily voted Conservative, to be denied the full fat impact of what they were promised and what they, again, voluntarily voted for ?
colin_p said:
I think they should rename themselves the Labrador party, who doesn't love a Labrador. There is one for everyone, black, chocolate and blonde ones, everyone should be happy.
I then think, as part of their manifesto, that they should pledge to offer everyone a free Labrador.
Picture below of some cute Labrador pups
That's a smashing idea! Barking would be an ideal location for the re-brand event I then think, as part of their manifesto, that they should pledge to offer everyone a free Labrador.
Picture below of some cute Labrador pups
colin_p said:
I think they should rename themselves the Labrador party, who doesn't love a Labrador. There is one for everyone, black, chocolate and blonde ones, everyone should be happy.
I then think, as part of their manifesto, that they should pledge to offer everyone a free Labrador.
Picture below of some cute Labrador pups
I’m sorry that idea’s a pup I then think, as part of their manifesto, that they should pledge to offer everyone a free Labrador.
Picture below of some cute Labrador pups
Guybrush said:
I'm looking forward to the press being present when the luvvies and other miserable lefties go to the airport for their one way trip to Canada.
After the Brexit vote an old college friend of mine posted his goodbye on Facebook, saying he was disgusted to be in a country that didn’t welcome immigrants so he’d decided to move to Canada.A few days later he was back saying he’d had to change his plans as he didn’t meet the conditions to get a work visa.
You’d have had to have a heart of stone not to laugh.
colin_p said:
I think they should rename themselves the Labrador party, who doesn't love a Labrador. There is one for everyone, black, chocolate and blonde ones, everyone should be happy.
I then think, as part of their manifesto, that they should pledge to offer everyone a free Labrador.
Picture below of some cute Labrador pups
And if you dock their tails - there are Jewish ones, Muslim ones etc.I then think, as part of their manifesto, that they should pledge to offer everyone a free Labrador.
Picture below of some cute Labrador pups
You could be onto something here....
At the risk of bringing the thread back on subject, the labour party will do what the tory party did when it was beaten by Blair in 1997, although prossibly to a much greater extent. There will be infighting, that’s a given. Whether it will be as nasty as the attempted tory night of the long knives is up for grabs. It might well be worse, which will be fun.
As with all such defeats, there will be a period of denial. This is the norm. It’s happened in the past enough times to ensure that if there wasn’t, it would be the subject of a thesis or two in years to come. That’s not to suggest this period is without its effects.
Next comes the battle between the various factions for supremacy. This happened after Thatcher’s first election, and went on for years. It happened after Blair’s first election and went on for years. Neither battle was resolved. It is unlikely that this round will be either.
In normal circumstances, there’s a change of direction in the party, with a leader taking control, after a period of humiliation. It was Smith in the case of labour. In the tory’s recent history I’m not sure they got one. It is possible that Johnson is the great, white-haired saviour of the tory party, but that remains to be seen
Labour have lost a portion of their heartland. They will have to work to get it back. Whilst it is probable that brexit was a main reason for the change of allegiance, it is probable that there were others. If labour assume that those who went blue will return, especially after they realise it will do little for the midlands, and even less for the working class there, and don’t work at getting them back in the fold, then the move, at least away, might become permanent.
The promise of getting brexit done by February might have been believed by those labour lost. If so, they are in for a surprise, and one they might remember. Whatever, work will need to be done. The big question is whether they will be able to if there’s a lot of infighting. There will be a certain amount of infighting. It is probable that the libdems will see these constituencies as possible fruitful ground. I would not have thought so a few days ago, but then I did not think they’d vote tory either.
Much will depend on what the tories do. If they don’t keep unemployment down, if they don’t improve the life of those in the midlands, then I’d suggest their hold on those seats is tenuous, but only if labour has a short period of squabbling.
That, to my mind, is unlikely; about on par with the second coming coming during the same period. It’s possible of course. At the moment it appears that the mps who were kicked out of their seats were generally, although by no means exclusively, on the left of the labour party. If this moves labour to the right, even a little, then it’s possible that the excesses of the past few years since the ‘let’s vote in the silly Milliband’ suicide bid will be a thing of the past.
If there’s a hard brexit, then the midlands are likely to suffer in the short term. The next GE is, at most, a bit less than 63 months away. If labour is not ready to take advantage, then it will probably be another two sessions of parliament before they will be back.
Although there’s the great unknown; the Johnson factor. He’s not the most stable of characters. He’s never gone too long without some scandal or other. If he doesn’t deliver a hard brexit then some of his mps will have the knives out. If he does a deal with the eu, then some of his mps will have the knives out. If he does something stupid, ie in character, then he might not last.
As with all such defeats, there will be a period of denial. This is the norm. It’s happened in the past enough times to ensure that if there wasn’t, it would be the subject of a thesis or two in years to come. That’s not to suggest this period is without its effects.
Next comes the battle between the various factions for supremacy. This happened after Thatcher’s first election, and went on for years. It happened after Blair’s first election and went on for years. Neither battle was resolved. It is unlikely that this round will be either.
In normal circumstances, there’s a change of direction in the party, with a leader taking control, after a period of humiliation. It was Smith in the case of labour. In the tory’s recent history I’m not sure they got one. It is possible that Johnson is the great, white-haired saviour of the tory party, but that remains to be seen
Labour have lost a portion of their heartland. They will have to work to get it back. Whilst it is probable that brexit was a main reason for the change of allegiance, it is probable that there were others. If labour assume that those who went blue will return, especially after they realise it will do little for the midlands, and even less for the working class there, and don’t work at getting them back in the fold, then the move, at least away, might become permanent.
The promise of getting brexit done by February might have been believed by those labour lost. If so, they are in for a surprise, and one they might remember. Whatever, work will need to be done. The big question is whether they will be able to if there’s a lot of infighting. There will be a certain amount of infighting. It is probable that the libdems will see these constituencies as possible fruitful ground. I would not have thought so a few days ago, but then I did not think they’d vote tory either.
Much will depend on what the tories do. If they don’t keep unemployment down, if they don’t improve the life of those in the midlands, then I’d suggest their hold on those seats is tenuous, but only if labour has a short period of squabbling.
That, to my mind, is unlikely; about on par with the second coming coming during the same period. It’s possible of course. At the moment it appears that the mps who were kicked out of their seats were generally, although by no means exclusively, on the left of the labour party. If this moves labour to the right, even a little, then it’s possible that the excesses of the past few years since the ‘let’s vote in the silly Milliband’ suicide bid will be a thing of the past.
If there’s a hard brexit, then the midlands are likely to suffer in the short term. The next GE is, at most, a bit less than 63 months away. If labour is not ready to take advantage, then it will probably be another two sessions of parliament before they will be back.
Although there’s the great unknown; the Johnson factor. He’s not the most stable of characters. He’s never gone too long without some scandal or other. If he doesn’t deliver a hard brexit then some of his mps will have the knives out. If he does a deal with the eu, then some of his mps will have the knives out. If he does something stupid, ie in character, then he might not last.
Watching Burgon on Sky(Sophy Ridge) and he's in denial about what went wrong. Can't answer a question without deflecting it. What is it with Labour hierarchy who find it incapable to put their hands up and say part of the reason we lost so many seats was down to the choice of leader. Caroline Flint was unequivocal in blaming him as are just about all the other Labour MPs who lost their seat. Why incumbent ones find the need to support Corbyn is beyond me. He's yesterday's man. He's history. Move on. Burgon would make a great Labour leader.....from a Tory aspect.
Smollet said:
Watching Burgon on Sky(Sophy Ridge) and he's in denial about what went wrong. Can't answer a question without deflecting it. What is it with Labour hierarchy who find it incapable to put their hands up and say part of the reason we lost so many seats was down to the choice of leader. Caroline Flint was unequivocal in blaming him as are just about all the other Labour MPs who lost their seat. Why incumbent ones find the need to support Corbyn is beyond me. He's yesterday's man. He's history. Move on. Burgon would make a great Labour leader.....from a Tory aspect.
Corbyn is still part of the momentum project maybe? Perhaps condemning Corbyn somehow means they have to accept the direction momentum is taking is wrong. Labour always saw itself as a class-based party, meaning there was an antagonistic "us and them" mentality at its heart. Aneurin Bevan's description of Tories as "lower than vermin" comes to mind. Somehow over the last few years this has grown (metastasized?) into a hate-based party, in which anyone who isn't "one of us" is demonised and caricatured. There are quite a lot of voters out there looking for people to blame for their crap lives, whether it's the rich, Jews, rich Jews or just Tory scum. But as it turns out there aren't enough of those people for the foetid hate-ridden putrid cesspit of Momentum Labour to do anything much beyond putting people out onto the streets to scream abuse at complete strangers. Tony Blair, to his credit, managed to put the haters back in their box for a long time and create a kind of "One Nation Labour" which won three elections on the trot. Until Labour stop trying to set different groups in society against each other for political advantage they will be rejected by the electorate. Most people in this country are essentially decent, moderate folk who are repelled by shouty hatemongers.
230TE said:
Labour always saw itself as a class-based party, meaning there was an antagonistic "us and them" mentality at its heart.
Most people in this country are essentially decent, moderate folk who are repelled by shouty hatemongers.
I've snipped your rather good post for brevity. Anyway, some interesting points there, and I agree.Most people in this country are essentially decent, moderate folk who are repelled by shouty hatemongers.
What will be interesting is how Labour now view the "decent, moderate folk" of, say, Bishop Auckland. I see that Emily Thornberry is being quoted as saying that some Labour (leave) voters were stupid. I sense that among the champagne socialists of Islington, there is a hatred, as you put it, of anyone who isn't a young, metropolitan Twitter follower with Marxist tendencies.
Labour is so desperately out of touch with everyone outside its own bubble that it has become irrelevant to the very folk it purports to represent.
Kent Border Kenny said:
TorqueVR said:
If Boris goes full term Tony Blair would have been the only Labour PM in 50 years. Maybe the party might take that on board and think about what direction to take.
Brown was Labour too.LetsTryAgain said:
Brave Fart said:
Labour is so desperately out of touch with everyone outside its own bubble that it has become irrelevant to the very folk it purports to represent.
Well, strictly speaking, this is very much the case with both the major political parties. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff