2020 Retailers in trouble thread

[Flumpo]

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

jammy-git said:

The issue with Whetherspoons is not the product but the clientele. Most of the ones I know of and have been to often have the absolute dregs of society in there.

People who say that should try visiting proper city and town pubs. They make Wetherspoons look like Claridges.

In Leeds city centre, you can go into pubs like the Duncan or 3 Legs and openly partake in purchase of stolen goods or work out how you're going to unstick yourself from the floor.or any number of other things. The people who go in there don't have much, and are often on the wrong side of the law, but they're often good fun to have a pint with and not trying to set an image by their choice of drinking hole.

Wetherspoon is a Primark or McDonalds of the pub world and in my experience doesn't tend to attract the kind of people Jammy describes as dregs, because those people have 'rougher' places to enjoy. The people in 'spoons are just everyday people.

I haven’t been in the three legs in about ten years. I went in a couple of times for a Cheeky pint and I can’t say it ever felt unfriendly.

The weather spoons next to the casino up past Merion centre near the arena always had a bad rep. I never thought that was too bad either, can’t remember it’s name. Although not been in either for 10 years.

The weatherspoons in Stevenage town centre wasn’t allowed to stay as the council thought its clientele wasn’t appropriate to its regen plans. They are looking for a reassuringly expensive pub to replace it. I had never been in but apparently that was a bit rough.

But I’m the other flip side I was somewhere like Otley and came across a really nice independent little pub full of respectable looking types. Picked up a menu and it was weatherspoons.

I think it’s a bit unfair thinking they are all full of awful people. It’s going to depend on the location. As you point out there are some much worse venues I’m sure.

[anonymous-user]

The 'Spoons in Otley was my breakfast meeting with the chairman location of choice.

[steve2]

The two barbers in our parade of shops had queues outside of them all day, no appointment just turn up and wait.

[PF62]

egor110 said:

Every single barbers in the town here is bookings only .

The several barber shops I passed when I drove through my local town at 2.30 this afternoon were all the same. Empty with staff forlornly looking out of the window for customers.

I guess lots of middle age + blokes have worked out that the £10 clippers from Argos are fine.

Flumpo said:

The weatherspoons in Stevenage town centre wasn’t allowed to stay as the council thought its clientele wasn’t appropriate to its regen plans. They are looking for a reassuringly expensive pub to replace it. I had never been in but apparently that was a bit rough.

I used to go in there reasonably frequently a few years ago. Not the worst Wetherspoons I have been in, by a long way. The clientele was a bit of an odd mix; 50% rough Stevenage and 50% workers staying nearby on business just wanting a cheap pint and some food.

As for regenerating the centre of Stevenage, good luck. There is zero chance that anyone will will bring back from the dead that soulless place where all the retailers have run away.

[sim72]

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

In Leeds city centre, you can go into pubs like the Duncan or 3 Legs and openly partake in purchase of stolen goods or work out how you're going to unstick yourself from the floor.or any number of other things. The people who go in there don't have much, and are often on the wrong side of the law, but they're often good fun to have a pint with and not trying to set an image by their choice of drinking hole.

The difference with places like the Duncan (which I used to be a regular in when I lived in Leeds) and your average Spoons is that whilst the Duncan might not be populated with 100% completely upstanding citizens, neither is it populated by (a) dedicated alcoholics who have been there since 10am, and (b) complete muppets who are completely unable to cope with 5 pints of Carling.

[Gecko1978]

jammy-git said:

I imagine it'll be like the debt from the great wars - it'll just end up taking decades for us to get back to where we were pre-Covid.

I assume this but don't think for a moment the government won't use it as an excuse to riase taxes and keep.as all just one step closer to the breadline.

The example of a luxury tax all depends on what you class as luxury. Take cars 300 a year more if your car is over 40k....why is that an expensive car these days. But extra 300 a year might mean people don't bother.

If the average person makes 27k and furlogh was set at 35k max 80% tells you large parts of the UK dont make huge amount of cash. Can they afford more VAT, more paye, more NI etc. I Dont think the government of any colour give a st. Some MPs are able for decades to simply pass all life costs off as expenses so tax is irrelevant to them. Yet most people have there salary slashed by the government long before it reaches there own bank.
So of they want 10% more f all you can do unlike super rich or poor who are immune to this.

[anonymous-user]

sim72 said:

The difference with places like the Duncan (which I used to be a regular in when I lived in Leeds) and your average Spoons is that whilst the Duncan might not be populated with 100% completely upstanding citizens, neither is it populated by (a) dedicated alcoholics who have been there since 10am, and (b) complete muppets who are completely unable to cope with 5 pints of Carling.

I'd be worried if someone could tolerate 5 pints of Carling!

Love the front room at the Duncan. Sam Smiths, so don't get caught with your phone. Some of the 'homeless' regulars get given hand outs from the takeaways and bring them in to eat and don't mind sharing it around with everyone in the room.

[Lemming Train]

Had to chuckle at the comment about figuring out how to unstick yourself from the floor - so true! Was the same upstairs in Hoagys.

[skwdenyer]

Robertj21a said:

vaud said:

Probably a mix of direct and indirect taxation.

Cheap fuel? Raise fuel duty to bring it back to pre-pandemic cost.
More VAT bands... super luxury VAT for high end goods?
Add tax to non-essentials - e.g. booze
Raise insurance tax
Plus some one time taxes on financial services / insurance / any sector that is doing well?

All sounds logical in the circumstances - plus a fair bit more!

It is only logical if you’re well-paid; these are massively regressive taxes.

Since 1979, the well-off have got much richer, whilst the poor have got much poorer. Those effects were in large part responsible for Brexit, but they weren’t caused by immigrants; they were causes by Conservative tax policy.

Regardless of politics we simply *have* to make our tax policy fairer. The above will just make it worse.

[skwdenyer]

Gecko1978 said:

I assume this but don't think for a moment the government won't use it as an excuse to riase taxes and keep.as all just one step closer to the breadline.

The example of a luxury tax all depends on what you class as luxury. Take cars 300 a year more if your car is over 40k....why is that an expensive car these days. But extra 300 a year might mean people don't bother.

If the average person makes 27k and furlogh was set at 35k max 80% tells you large parts of the UK dont make huge amount of cash. Can they afford more VAT, more paye, more NI etc. I Dont think the government of any colour give a st. Some MPs are able for decades to simply pass all life costs off as expenses so tax is irrelevant to them. Yet most people have there salary slashed by the government long before it reaches there own bank.
So of they want 10% more f all you can do unlike super rich or poor who are immune to this.

The poor are not immune; they’ve got progressively poorer.

[skwdenyer]

jammy-git said:

The issue with Whetherspoons is not the product but the clientele. Most of the ones I know of and have been to often have the absolute dregs of society in there.

I haven’t been in a ‘spoons since the 90s. Back in those days, they kept their prices low by buying short-dated beer where possible. There was a reason it tasted awful. I haven’t bothered going back to check it they’ve changed their buying policies since.

[ninepoint2]

skwdenyer said:

jammy-git said:

The issue with Whetherspoons is not the product but the clientele. Most of the ones I know of and have been to often have the absolute dregs of society in there.

I haven’t been in a ‘spoons since the 90s. Back in those days, they kept their prices low by buying short-dated beer where possible. There was a reason it tasted awful. I haven’t bothered going back to check it they’ve changed their buying policies since.

"Wetherspoon's did everything it could to gain the upper hand in negotiations. At the time, pubs typically relied on breweries to deliver beer and provide dispensing equipment. Wetherspoon's established its own distribution network, bought its own taps, and forced prices down. Nathan Wall, the company’s former operations director, told me: “It was taken straight out of Walmart: We will not be beholden to our supply chain.” He added: “There’s this urban myth that Wetherspoon's sells close-dated beer. When I was at Wetherspoon's we sold 12 million pints of beer a week. The logistics of finding 12 million pints of short-dated beer is just impossible. The reason they get their prices so low is absolutely, 100 percent down to volume and having their own distribution network.”

[Gecko1978]

skwdenyer said:

Gecko1978 said:

I assume this but don't think for a moment the government won't use it as an excuse to riase taxes and keep.as all just one step closer to the breadline.

The example of a luxury tax all depends on what you class as luxury. Take cars 300 a year more if your car is over 40k....why is that an expensive car these days. But extra 300 a year might mean people don't bother.

If the average person makes 27k and furlogh was set at 35k max 80% tells you large parts of the UK dont make huge amount of cash. Can they afford more VAT, more paye, more NI etc. I Dont think the government of any colour give a st. Some MPs are able for decades to simply pass all life costs off as expenses so tax is irrelevant to them. Yet most people have there salary slashed by the government long before it reaches there own bank.
So of they want 10% more f all you can do unlike super rich or poor who are immune to this.

The poor are not immune; they’ve got progressively poorer.

Re the poor, if you get benefits they don't fall due to tax was my point but you are correct they get equally as fked when prices rise.

[skwdenyer]

ninepoint2 said:

skwdenyer said:

jammy-git said:

The issue with Whetherspoons is not the product but the clientele. Most of the ones I know of and have been to often have the absolute dregs of society in there.

I haven’t been in a ‘spoons since the 90s. Back in those days, they kept their prices low by buying short-dated beer where possible. There was a reason it tasted awful. I haven’t bothered going back to check it they’ve changed their buying policies since.

"Wetherspoon's did everything it could to gain the upper hand in negotiations. At the time, pubs typically relied on breweries to deliver beer and provide dispensing equipment. Wetherspoon's established its own distribution network, bought its own taps, and forced prices down. Nathan Wall, the company’s former operations director, told me: “It was taken straight out of Walmart: We will not be beholden to our supply chain.” He added: “There’s this urban myth that Wetherspoon's sells close-dated beer. When I was at Wetherspoon's we sold 12 million pints of beer a week. The logistics of finding 12 million pints of short-dated beer is just impossible. The reason they get their prices so low is absolutely, 100 percent down to volume and having their own distribution network.”

Fair enough. For whatever reason, my local 'spoons at the time in London served utterly vile product; if it wasn't short-dating, perhaps they kept it badly, or perhaps their supply chain just sent them sub-standard product to match the sub-par prices?

[Turn7]

skwdenyer said:

Fair enough. For whatever reason, my local 'spoons at the time in London served utterly vile product; if it wasn't short-dating, perhaps they kept it badly, or perhaps their supply chain just sent them sub-standard product to match the sub-par prices?

More likely down to poor line cleaning procedures tbh.....

[anonymous-user]

Shell hasn't ruled out moving headquarters to the UK, has to be news for us.

[anonymous-user]

The Spruce Goose said:

Shell hasn't ruled out moving headquarters to the UK, has to be news for us.

Will it be a shell company though.

[hyphen]

Argleton said:

The Spruce Goose said:

Shell hasn't ruled out moving headquarters to the UK, has to be news for us.

Will it be a shell company though.

[eldar]

jammy-git said:

The issue with Whetherspoons is not the product but the clientele. Most of the ones I know of and have been to often have the absolute dregs of society in there.

A combination of resenting success and confused by Brexit.

Which ones have you been to exactly? Or is this just invention?

[Gecko1978]

eldar said:

jammy-git said:

The issue with Whetherspoons is not the product but the clientele. Most of the ones I know of and have been to often have the absolute dregs of society in there.

A combination of resenting success and confused by Brexit.

Which ones have you been to exactly? Or is this just invention?

When I was yonger (late teens 20s) I loved a spoons cheap beer and food etc. Now I am older I look at the one in my local town and say saturday 11am you see a lot of people outside smoking drinking with kids in toe. But is that because people have to smoke outside, is it because I am older now and so don't drink saturday mornings. Deregs of society no I dont think so, what people might have called working class then yes. End of day we have a culture of drinking in the UK and some people like to do it in a pub and have a limited budget. Spoons provide that product.