2020 Retailers in trouble thread

[jammy-git]

Saweep said:

I know so many people who believed the govt.

The took bounce back loans, they re-invested, they stuck it out. They were prepared to fight. They bounced back a little bit.

Now they're shutting again with no more funds available, debts they didn't have in March and don't really know what the future holds.

This 2nd lockdown just feels like the end from the way many are talking.

I wouldn't be paying any taxes either in this scenario. I'd be making sure my family could survive the winter.

Anyone sensible should have known that money needed to last them well into next year.

I've used some of the BBL money to help take on people and grow my business this year, but I've made certain to keep the majority of it for a rainy day in 2021!

[anonymous-user]

jammy-git said:

Absolutely this.

If my company was right up against it and I had the choice between laying off people or deferring a VAT payment I know what I would rather do. I also know I would much rather keep the company going and salaries paid for an extra month or two and go under owning HMRC, rather than shut up sooner and owe them nothing.

Within reason, this. Bear in mind however if you do then fold and owe significant VAT sums, you might struggle to get another company you control VAT registered without providing a significant deposit to our friends at HMRC.

[vaud]

Bullett said:

This morning speak to my builders, they are worried not about safety but about supplies. One guy said plaster is all gone and other stuff not much better. Luckily for us they got the board and plaster they needed for our job in last week but he and his mate have pretty much had every job cancelled after ours and even if they were not cancelled then there are no materials.

I don't understand the lack of supplies - are some builders hoarding?

There was a lack of supply at the start of the last lockdown as the cement/plaster factory shut down, but there have been months of production since then and they are open (for now)

[Vanden Saab]

vaud said:

Bullett said:

This morning speak to my builders, they are worried not about safety but about supplies. One guy said plaster is all gone and other stuff not much better. Luckily for us they got the board and plaster they needed for our job in last week but he and his mate have pretty much had every job cancelled after ours and even if they were not cancelled then there are no materials.

I don't understand the lack of supplies - are some builders hoarding?

There was a lack of supply at the start of the last lockdown as the cement/plaster factory shut down, but there have been months of production since then and they are open (for now)

Everybody is ordering a month's worth because of the lockdown

[Stay in Bed Instead]

king arthur said:

I thought they were?

You can apply for the bog standard monthly payment plan, which has interest applied. That's all. Nothing special.

[loafer123]

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

Anonymous-poster said:

You do remember they had to shut for 4 months in the previous lockdown and just maybe their income and cash flow might have been affected?

I believe the point may be that you ought not use VAT you've collected as cashflow. That's perhaps a slightly harsh view in light of circumstances and the government's own previous stance on VAT payment deferral.

Thanks - yes, that was my point.

Whilst I do take everyone's point about using VAT cash in extremis, the poster was expecting to pay his VAT next week, and the second lockdown is not the issue that will prevent that - he either has it now, or he doesn't.

It seems to me that he, rightly, wants to defer paying the VAT in order to use the cash he is holding for that purpose to be able to pay other costs in the second lockdown.

I have alot of sympathy for that approach, and hope that the HMRC will again allow VAT deferrals, as it will make alot of difference for many companies.

[Digga]

Vanden Saab said:

vaud said:

Bullett said:

This morning speak to my builders, they are worried not about safety but about supplies. One guy said plaster is all gone and other stuff not much better. Luckily for us they got the board and plaster they needed for our job in last week but he and his mate have pretty much had every job cancelled after ours and even if they were not cancelled then there are no materials.

I don't understand the lack of supplies - are some builders hoarding?

There was a lack of supply at the start of the last lockdown as the cement/plaster factory shut down, but there have been months of production since then and they are open (for now)

Everybody is ordering a month's worth because of the lockdown

Which may turn out to be a case of an army being well prepared, but only to fight the battle last fought, because factories may well continue production this time around, now rules are clearer on who should and should not close.

[Vanden Saab]

Digga said:

Vanden Saab said:

vaud said:

Bullett said:

This morning speak to my builders, they are worried not about safety but about supplies. One guy said plaster is all gone and other stuff not much better. Luckily for us they got the board and plaster they needed for our job in last week but he and his mate have pretty much had every job cancelled after ours and even if they were not cancelled then there are no materials.

I don't understand the lack of supplies - are some builders hoarding?

There was a lack of supply at the start of the last lockdown as the cement/plaster factory shut down, but there have been months of production since then and they are open (for now)

Everybody is ordering a month's worth because of the lockdown

Which may turn out to be a case of an army being well prepared, but only to fight the battle last fought, because factories may well continue production this time around, now rules are clearer on who should and should not close.

But if your livelihood depends on having the materials then you would be stupid to risk it. My next three months of customers all have my materials ready for me at the job.

[V6Alfisti]

Vanden Saab said:

But if your livelihood depends on having the materials then you would be stupid to risk it. My next three months of customers all have my materials ready for me at the job.

Also, whilst it may impact margin slightly. Things like plaster are in plentiful supply seemingly at the likes of Wickes.

I guess it depends on the quality/brand/trade accounts e.t.c?

[technodup]

Bullett said:

And in an apparent absurdity, windows fitters do not classify as construction so can't work.

My guys are working. Everyone I know is working. Flat out, and have been since the proper lockdown ended.

We're in Scotland but as far as I'm concerned between construction OK and tradesmen OK we as window fitters are OK. Who's stopping your guys?

[richardxjr]

technodup said:

Bullett said:

And in an apparent absurdity, windows fitters do not classify as construction so can't work.

My guys are working. Everyone I know is working. Flat out, and have been since the proper lockdown ended.

We're in Scotland but as far as I'm concerned between construction OK and tradesmen OK we as window fitters are OK. Who's stopping your guys?

England, our guys are still fitting. A council replacement contract has been stopped indefinately though, back in March, which is a bummer.

[Gweeds]

I managed to shoot 10 smaller weddings, all but one of which for couples who have moved their main day into next year but several of which are now looking dodgy in May/June.

I’m about to shoot a final one today, hurriedly rearranged from this coming Saturday as they’re now about to be banned again.

I’m relatively lucky. A friend of mine had worked hard over the last couple of months to try and make the most of these smaller ones. She’s had zero government support due to being one of those who didn’t qualify anywhere. She’d booked 9 for November. All of which she now has to cancel and refund.

Every one I’ve shot has been distanced, no-one took the piss, and now it’s all done again. That wipes out 2020 totally as no-one will risk a December booking (usually fairly busy around Xmas).

The larger worry for me and colleagues in the industry is that at least the first half of 2021 is in trouble and lots of venues and caterers won’t survive it.

[Bullett]

One of the builders told me 'his mate' who's a fitter told him.
I did take it with a pinch of salt.
We've raised the Q with our suppliers/fitters anyway.

[PF62]

Bullett said:

One of the builders told me 'his mate' who's a fitter told him.
I did take it with a pinch of salt.
We've raised the Q with our suppliers/fitters anyway.

Your builder’s mate is wrong.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-national-restricti...

This means you must not leave or be outside of your home except for specific purposes. These include:
…
for work purposes, where your place of work remains open and where you cannot work from home (including if your job involves working in other people’s homes)

[Digga]

Gweeds said:

The larger worry for me and colleagues in the industry is that at least the first half of 2021 is in trouble and lots of venues and caterers won’t survive it.

In this, I agree and see the greatest hazard not only for jobs and the economy, but also our culture.

An apt example being the way that more pubs shut than ever re-open, or that provincial high street shops close and tend only ever to be re-occupied by either large chains or charity shops.

I can see many cinemas, theaters and concert venues being re-purposed into other uses, never to return.

[loafer123]

Digga said:

Gweeds said:

The larger worry for me and colleagues in the industry is that at least the first half of 2021 is in trouble and lots of venues and caterers won’t survive it.

In this, I agree and see the greatest hazard not only for jobs and the economy, but also our culture.

An apt example being the way that more pubs shut than ever re-open, or that provincial high street shops close and tend only ever to be re-occupied by either large chains or charity shops.

I can see many cinemas, theaters and concert venues being re-purposed into other uses, never to return.

I don't see that risk, personally.

Town centres are already awash with surplus space from the retail implosion, and the repurposing/redevelopment of more complex sites like those will take a long time, giving time for the sector to recover.

[jammy-git]

Yup - a lot of non-residential is going to be empty for a long time!

I can see some of it being converted to residential maybe.

[jakesmith]

Vanden Saab said:

Digga said:

Vanden Saab said:

vaud said:

Bullett said:

This morning speak to my builders, they are worried not about safety but about supplies. One guy said plaster is all gone and other stuff not much better. Luckily for us they got the board and plaster they needed for our job in last week but he and his mate have pretty much had every job cancelled after ours and even if they were not cancelled then there are no materials.

I don't understand the lack of supplies - are some builders hoarding?

There was a lack of supply at the start of the last lockdown as the cement/plaster factory shut down, but there have been months of production since then and they are open (for now)

Everybody is ordering a month's worth because of the lockdown

Which may turn out to be a case of an army being well prepared, but only to fight the battle last fought, because factories may well continue production this time around, now rules are clearer on who should and should not close.

But if your livelihood depends on having the materials then you would be stupid to risk it. My next three months of customers all have my materials ready for me at the job.

I tried to buy a pretty common item today. A pack of black UPVC headed fascia nails in black. I can get 50 off eBay in a week but if I want some tomorrow I can only get them at Wickes 100 miles away. Nothing in toolstation, screwfix etc. Nada.

[eltawater]

Gweeds said:

I’m relatively lucky. A friend of mine had worked hard over the last couple of months to try and make the most of these smaller ones. She’s had zero government support due to being one of those who didn’t qualify anywhere. She’d booked 9 for November. All of which she now has to cancel and refund.

Every one I’ve shot has been distanced, no-one took the piss, and now it’s all done again. That wipes out 2020 totally as no-one will risk a December booking (usually fairly busy around Xmas).

My friends have also been hit hard in this way. In a double whammy, they also had full bookings for Christmas kids shoots which have now all had to be cancelled for November, and December isn't looking too hopeful...

[jonamv8]

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

jammy-git said:

Absolutely this.

If my company was right up against it and I had the choice between laying off people or deferring a VAT payment I know what I would rather do. I also know I would much rather keep the company going and salaries paid for an extra month or two and go under owning HMRC, rather than shut up sooner and owe them nothing.

Within reason, this. Bear in mind however if you do then fold and owe significant VAT sums, you might struggle to get another company you control VAT registered without providing a significant deposit to our friends at HMRC.

Ok so HMRC tell you they won’t let you register for VAT, what happens when your T/O hits £83k or whatever the threshold is???