To BONG or not to BONG, that is the question
Discussion
FiF said:
Well yes, that bloody seagull that stole my chips yesterday, I'm sure it was squarking with a French accent. We need Jolyon Maugham to scuttle up to Whitby, dress up in a Dracula costume and batter the little sods with his baseball bat. Little feathered tossers.
Not that serious, except the seagulls are a pain in the chips.
Not that serious, except the seagulls are a pain in the chips.
Are you sure you weren't eating French fries? 
MDMetal said:
Not really, I'll take stock after a year or so but blaming every decision or personal circumstance is pointless and clearly nuts. The decision was made we can obviously take stock and see the pros and cons at a later date but constantly mentioning which way you voted and "I told you so" will just end up you being "that guy" in every office meeting.
Ok, correction, I think the difference will be that the old 48% will blame Brexit, but the current goverment and the supportive media will be the ones blaming remainers/EU. One being a pointless 'told you so', the other being a pointless scapegoat. Time will tell, either way it won't be constructive.FiF said:
Having recently caught up on various threads and bits of social media here and elsewhere I'm of the opinion that either, there are various people on both sides of the debate who are either serially trolling the world solely for giggles, some of them have even declared that, or suffering from a mental condition with the acronym BDS.
.
Not bothered either way whether Big Ben is rung or not but the establishment just cannot help themselves can they .
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/01/let-big-ben-...
JagLover said:
FiF said:
Having recently caught up on various threads and bits of social media here and elsewhere I'm of the opinion that either, there are various people on both sides of the debate who are either serially trolling the world solely for giggles, some of them have even declared that, or suffering from a mental condition with the acronym BDS.
.
Not bothered either way whether Big Ben is rung or not but the establishment just cannot help themselves can they .
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/01/let-big-ben-...
The idea that these "elite" as the article describes them feel they are somehow safe-guarding or carrying out some sort of protection of time honoured traditions blah blah is just laughable. If you don't believe the public at large should have to pay for this let members of the public who wish to donate. If that isn't the reason it can't happen then don't tell people it is. If the issue did boil down to some constitutional issue (which clearly it doesn't) then don't pretend it matters if it cost £5 or £5 billion. The inability of those in power to talk straightly and directly to the rest of us is the reason of this general dissatisfaction.
Electro1980 said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
It was also the largest voter turn out in UK political history
No it wasn’t, but then leavers are not very good with facts or numbers.Given that just fractionally under 50% voted to remain and many are deeply upset about it don’t you think that loudly celebrating is rather obnoxious and comes across as being a poor winner?
But what the 31st does mark is democracy finally prevailing in the UK, over all those who did not and do not have the decency to respect the only democratic vote the people of the UK have ever been given on whether or not they wanted the UK to be in the EU. That in itself is reason to have some form of celebration on the 31st January. In some other countries people die trying to establish democracy in their own country. But perhaps you don't think democracy is important when it does not give the result `you' wanted?
Pan Pan Pan said:
If you could just provide evidence that the 2016 referendum was not the greatest voter turn out in UK political history, that would be nice. Just you saying `No it wasn't' doesn't really cut it.
Allow me https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-referendum-not-larg...
Interesting interview with Farage and one of the former Big Ben engineers who states it wouldn't cost hardly anything to ring Big Ben as it's all computer controlled.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1228414/nigel-fa...
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1228414/nigel-fa...
Brooking10 said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
If you could just provide evidence that the 2016 referendum was not the greatest voter turn out in UK political history, that would be nice. Just you saying `No it wasn't' doesn't really cut it.
Allow me https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-referendum-not-larg...
catso said:
Whilst I think it's a stupid idea to do this, as a way to save the nation some money I'm prepared to stand on a ladder and hit it with a sledgehammer for £250k...
Good luck. Correct hammer weight is 200kg!...and don't hit it in the wrong place, it's already got a crack in it.
Zoon said:
No single electoral option has received more votes in UK history than the vote to leave the EU in 2016
That wasn't the claim, though.Zoon said:
But a handful of referendum options and political parties have received a higher percentage share of a national vote.
I couldn't think of a referendum in the UK that won with a smaller percentage. Then found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Welsh_devolutio...Wales voted for devolved government by a majority of just 6,721...
Zoon said:
No single electoral option has received more votes in UK history than the vote to leave the EU in 2016. But a handful of referendum options and political parties have received a higher percentage share of a national vote.
The fact that it was an entirely binary matter might have something to do with that.There is of course no doubting that a very significant number of people turned out.
But quite clearly the the “largest amount ever” is not true and as highlighted by the chap above the delta was amongst the smallest.
Murph7355 said:
Now now. No need for the 'c' word.
Munchetty is no better. They deserved each other this morning, seeing who could out-outrage the other or out-moron the other. Score draw on both.
I know of him tangentially through friends, he’s not a particularly nice man.Munchetty is no better. They deserved each other this morning, seeing who could out-outrage the other or out-moron the other. Score draw on both.
Having dealt with her professionally I would concur that she’s annoying.
JagLover said:
Not bothered either way whether Big Ben is rung or not but the establishment just cannot help themselves can they
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/01/let-big-ben-...
The author is a dufus.https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/01/let-big-ben-...
- the 500k seems to be largely made up of delay claim from the contractor. I can readily see how that would happen. The reason it wasn't incurred on NYE is that the contract was written to cater for that, so the contractor had signed up to it.
- the "function" being referred to is not that of the bell but of the HoC I believe. What the committee seems to be saying is that it's not OK for the government to fund something it wants to do by crowd funding if doing so from the current public purse is not palatable....I can imagine that setting that sort of precedent would be a dangerous path to tread tbh.
Even if the crowd funded amount was chucked at the nation's coffers, there are more worthy things to spend it on.
The compromise position here is to use speakers. Cheap. Same impact. No opening up the debate any wider than necessary to the bed wetters. I'd also like it it if they flew the individual flags of all 28 nations around Parliament Square for a week.
As someone else noted, rather than look at the negative, look at this as ringing in the new for everyone.
Zoon said:
Interesting interview with Farage and one of the former Big Ben engineers who states it wouldn't cost hardly anything to ring Big Ben as it's all computer controlled.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1228414/nigel-fa...
The ringing of the bell isn't the bulk of the cost FFS.https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1228414/nigel-fa...
The 500k has been broken down in the press.
BBC said:
The House of Commons Commission, which is responsible for maintenance in Parliament, estimates the cost of sounding Big Ben on Brexit day is between £320,000 and £500,000.
Its estimate is made up of two separate costs:
Bringing back the bonging mechanism and installing a temporary floor - £120,000
The cost of delaying the conservation work - up to £400,000 (based on an estimate of £100,000 a week)
The commission says the floor in the belfry has been removed and there would be a significant cost to put in and then remove a temporary floor.
As well as the floor, the £120,000 figure also includes the cost of installing and dismantling the temporary mechanism (an electric bell hammer) to sound the bell.
Delaying the restoration work already taking place to enable the bongs would also add £100,000 a week to the bill.
As such, the commission concludes that the cost is not justified - although it says it will respond to any decision MPs make.
Bearing in mind the nature of the building, the people they have working on it etc etc...I can readily believe the 320k-500k estimate when acknowledging ALL costs involved.Its estimate is made up of two separate costs:
Bringing back the bonging mechanism and installing a temporary floor - £120,000
The cost of delaying the conservation work - up to £400,000 (based on an estimate of £100,000 a week)
The commission says the floor in the belfry has been removed and there would be a significant cost to put in and then remove a temporary floor.
As well as the floor, the £120,000 figure also includes the cost of installing and dismantling the temporary mechanism (an electric bell hammer) to sound the bell.
Delaying the restoration work already taking place to enable the bongs would also add £100,000 a week to the bill.
As such, the commission concludes that the cost is not justified - although it says it will respond to any decision MPs make.
(£100k a week bill?! That's ludicrous!! Well not really. Contract works started when Brexit wasn't really a thing, let alone knowing all the twists and turns. That nobody predicted the desire to ring it out on 31st Jan is very understandable...and that contractors submit delay claims is obvious
).Brooking10 said:
I know of him tangentially through friends, he’s not a particularly nice man.
Having dealt with her professionally I would concur that she’s annoying.
He looks like a smarmy supercilious tHaving dealt with her professionally I would concur that she’s annoying.
t tbh and I doubt I'd want a drink with him in the pub.But Munchetty was simply being antagonistic ("just putting the opposing view across" - that's not your job petal...if you want an opposing view, get Caroline Lucas on to argue with Tice or someone equally irrelevant on the political scene. Then sit back and work out whether the bee or the spider wins in the paper bag).
This is where the BBC does itself no favours. It purposefully set that up as its own version of Jeremy Kyle. They wanted to sneer at someone supporting the (dumb) notion. It, and it's presenters, need to be above that.
Fiona Bruce is another. Her opinion's not really worth s
t all on Antiques Roadshow...so why she ends up talking the most on QT I do not know. And don't even get me start on Maitliss. (At the risk of being, or appearing, misogynistic, I'll add my derision for John Snow here too. And that gimp on ITV news who knows the Sussexes...).Murph7355 said:
- the "function" being referred to is not that of the bell but of the HoC I believe. What the committee seems to be saying is that it's not OK for the government to fund something it wants to do by crowd funding if doing so from the current public purse is not palatable....I can imagine that setting that sort of precedent would be a dangerous path to tread tbh.
? Seriously? if the reason is "we don't want to pay for it" then crowdfunding is 100% sensible. The reason here is nothing to do with cost, those in charge are clearly not happy to do it even if it was free. If cost is the only blocking issue then surely the public donating is a great idea?Edited by MDMetal on Friday 17th January 16:46
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