A&E waiting times
Discussion
piquet said:
borcy said:
Piquet, could you expand on the mental health part of your post. What is the back ground to the Drs not being interested in dealing with their in patients or just sending them to a&e? Is it a culture thing?
short version, yespsychiatry is a branch of medicine and you have to be doctor to be a psychiatrist. This makes complete sense as they need to know about drugs and how they interact with other medication and medical and problems the patient has.
There is then a cultural thing were they go, oh we don't look after the medical problems (despite being doctors). It comes from the fact that being medically unwell can potentially cause most psychiatric symptoms so they turn round and go, we can't see the patient until all the medical problems have been fixed and that leads onto, oh we can't look after medical problems, so we get sent patients with a chest infection, patients who have wounds etc. I understand they do have a limitation of what they can do there, but they are still doctors and haven't had a memory wipe. It's nice and convenient to hand it over to someone else and if woken at night much easier to say, oh just send it to a&e.
I would be ok with it if they decided they were't doctors just therapists and were trained and paid accordingly
Tankrizzo said:
A huge amount of people don't need to be in A&E. Only the feeble-minded think this is a "simple" underfunding problem.
I was sent up to a Birmingham hospital to film a piece about crowded A&Es and run off their feet doctors. People kept asking me why I was filming and getting angry saying they didn't want to be on telly. This was late afternoon.
Very quickly the place emptied out.
The director then said get shots of the busy doctors and nurses but as everyone had feked off, they were all just sitting around chatting and drinking cups of tea.
So vote for the government that pays me my usual rate for a cameraman and I'll wander down to any A&E dept and watch the waiting times drop
croyde said:
Tankrizzo said:
A huge amount of people don't need to be in A&E. Only the feeble-minded think this is a "simple" underfunding problem.
I was sent up to a Birmingham hospital to film a piece about crowded A&Es and run off their feet doctors. People kept asking me why I was filming and getting angry saying they didn't want to be on telly. This was late afternoon.
Very quickly the place emptied out.
The director then said get shots of the busy doctors and nurses but as everyone had feked off, they were all just sitting around chatting and drinking cups of tea.
So vote for the government that pays me my usual rate for a cameraman and I'll wander down to any A&E dept and watch the waiting times drop
king wasters are clogging it up 
RCH Treliske here in Truro has to cover between 500 000 people in winter and 5 million come summer and is regularly on black alert due to bed shortages. The A&E waiting times can be ridiculous in the summer as lots of holidaymakers don't appear to realise they can attend GP practices as temporary patients or seek out walk-in centres. On top of that, there are plenty of locals using A&E because of the wait for GP appointments. We desperately need another hospital down here.
https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/vi...
https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/vi...
pequod said:
I've heard this quoted a few times but I wonder if there is any independent evidence this is actually happening to such a degree that it is affecting the A&E Dept doing their job?
My last experience of A&E was just before Christmas when my mum had what turned out to be a very minor heart attack, which in itself entailed approx. 9 hours on a trolley in a corridor but whilst I was waiting to speak to reception, there was a young girl in front of me trying to book in. She said she had thinks she broke a finger about 3 weeks ago playing netball at college and as it was still swollen and bruised so thought she would come and get it looked at.
Yes it was an accident but not exactly an emergency, I’m sure if she went to her GP they would refer her on to the fracture clinic to get it checked.
Esceptico said:
So it seems the governments solution to not meeting the 4 hour waiting target in A&E...is to change the target (no doubt to something they can achieve).
A sign of things to come under our glorious leader Boris? No doubt those that were frothing at the mouth over a stupid off the cuff comment by an ex Labour MP will be strangely silent on this obvious attempt by the Tories to escape scrutiny over their stewardship of the NHS.
The only, tiny, fly in the ointment of your argument is that all the other countries in the UK where Health is devolved, do far worse! A sign of things to come under our glorious leader Boris? No doubt those that were frothing at the mouth over a stupid off the cuff comment by an ex Labour MP will be strangely silent on this obvious attempt by the Tories to escape scrutiny over their stewardship of the NHS.
What do you have to say to that?
blue_haddock said:
My last experience of A&E was just before Christmas when my mum had what turned out to be a very minor heart attack, which in itself entailed approx. 9 hours on a trolley in a corridor but whilst I was waiting to speak to reception, there was a young girl in front of me trying to book in.
She said she had thinks she broke a finger about 3 weeks ago playing netball at college and as it was still swollen and bruised so thought she would come and get it looked at.
Yes it was an accident but not exactly an emergency, I’m sure if she went to her GP they would refer her on to the fracture clinic to get it checked.
What's the alternative for her though if GPs can't accomodate?She said she had thinks she broke a finger about 3 weeks ago playing netball at college and as it was still swollen and bruised so thought she would come and get it looked at.
Yes it was an accident but not exactly an emergency, I’m sure if she went to her GP they would refer her on to the fracture clinic to get it checked.
tbf, GPs in Scotland seem to be moving to drop in clinics and don't encourage appointments at all. I do prefer it. Would rather wait 2 hours for a GP appointment when I actually need it. Than 2 weeks and wait 30 mins.
Earthdweller said:
From my professional experience of A&E over many years and the NHS in general
If you are brought in by Ambulance with major trauma or walk in with a serious problem you will receive world class care immediately
If you walk in with toothache or a minor ailment you will have to wait
Serious issues are prioritised
Quite rightly
This. If you are brought in by Ambulance with major trauma or walk in with a serious problem you will receive world class care immediately
If you walk in with toothache or a minor ailment you will have to wait
Serious issues are prioritised
Quite rightly
A few years go, my mother had mild stroke. She thought she was fine, but we quietly bundled her in the car and drove her to hospital. She tried to persuade the triage nurse that she was fine, I got bored after about 10 seconds and just said: “87 year old, can’t use her left arm, blood pressure is 240/170, what do you think?” Her feet didn’t touch the ground after that, and I can’t fault the treatment in the slightest. Silly moo had decided that she didn’t need to take her blood pressure pills because she felt fine. Fully recovered now (and taking her pills....).
In contrast I opened my arm up with a chainsaw and had to wait 6 hours for some treatment - which was fine, because I wasn’t actually bleeding out, we’d taped it up pretty well, it just needed stitches when someone had a moment.
Biggest problem I see is that A&E tends to end up being social services for drunks and weirdos. Mum was in on a Saturday night and it was utter carnage. What they need is a drunk tank - the moment someone is abusive, get the cuffs on them, check if they’re actually about to die, if not, stick them in the tank for 12 hours to calm down.
Earthdweller said:
From my professional experience of A&E over many years and the NHS in general
If you are brought in by Ambulance with major trauma or walk in with a serious problem you will receive world class care immediately
If you walk in with toothache or a minor ailment you will have to wait
Serious issues are prioritised
Quite rightly
Yes, I think you will find that is the system.If you are brought in by Ambulance with major trauma or walk in with a serious problem you will receive world class care immediately
If you walk in with toothache or a minor ailment you will have to wait
Serious issues are prioritised
Quite rightly
I believe it is called triage.
Penelope Stopit said:
Greece, back-end of last year
Friend falls over, arm is giving much pain, take friend to A&E, sent straight away for an Xray, doctor confirms there's a break, arm put in plaster, leave hospital. 3/4 of an hour in and out
Not so many people in Greece but A&E do work quick
One anecdote does not constitute data.Friend falls over, arm is giving much pain, take friend to A&E, sent straight away for an Xray, doctor confirms there's a break, arm put in plaster, leave hospital. 3/4 of an hour in and out
Not so many people in Greece but A&E do work quick
The 2 main causes of the increased pressures on A&E departments are:-
A growing and aged population, and
GP's being able to be more selective over how they operate their practices
We can't do anything about increased demand due to a larger overall population and an increase in the number of older people, but we can sort out the mess that was facilitated by overly generous 2004 GP Contract. There was a step-change in the delivery of Primary Health Care following the changes to the GP Contract that gave them more autonomy when it came to how they deliver their services. That (IMHO) started the slow decline and changed the publics perception that the first point of call should be your GP not the local A&E department. Home visits declined as did 24hr care and the GP's who were lucky enough to own their own premises just got richer and richer whilst working fewer and fewer hours.
The sooner GP Practices stop being treated as external semi-private companies and are brought back into the NHS the better, it would instantly save a fortune in accounting costs administering all the national tariff payments.
A growing and aged population, and
GP's being able to be more selective over how they operate their practices
We can't do anything about increased demand due to a larger overall population and an increase in the number of older people, but we can sort out the mess that was facilitated by overly generous 2004 GP Contract. There was a step-change in the delivery of Primary Health Care following the changes to the GP Contract that gave them more autonomy when it came to how they deliver their services. That (IMHO) started the slow decline and changed the publics perception that the first point of call should be your GP not the local A&E department. Home visits declined as did 24hr care and the GP's who were lucky enough to own their own premises just got richer and richer whilst working fewer and fewer hours.
The sooner GP Practices stop being treated as external semi-private companies and are brought back into the NHS the better, it would instantly save a fortune in accounting costs administering all the national tariff payments.
The Surveyor said:
The 2 main causes of the increased pressures on A&E departments are:-
A growing and aged population, and
GP's being able to be more selective over how they operate their practices
We can't do anything about increased demand due to a larger overall population and an increase in the number of older people, but we can sort out the mess that was facilitated by overly generous 2004 GP Contract. There was a step-change in the delivery of Primary Health Care following the changes to the GP Contract that gave them more autonomy when it came to how they deliver their services. That (IMHO) started the slow decline and changed the publics perception that the first point of call should be your GP not the local A&E department. Home visits declined as did 24hr care and the GP's who were lucky enough to own their own premises just got richer and richer whilst working fewer and fewer hours.
The sooner GP Practices stop being treated as external semi-private companies and are brought back into the NHS the better, it would instantly save a fortune in accounting costs administering all the national tariff payments.
You missed people that do not need to use A&E which is the biggest pressure.A growing and aged population, and
GP's being able to be more selective over how they operate their practices
We can't do anything about increased demand due to a larger overall population and an increase in the number of older people, but we can sort out the mess that was facilitated by overly generous 2004 GP Contract. There was a step-change in the delivery of Primary Health Care following the changes to the GP Contract that gave them more autonomy when it came to how they deliver their services. That (IMHO) started the slow decline and changed the publics perception that the first point of call should be your GP not the local A&E department. Home visits declined as did 24hr care and the GP's who were lucky enough to own their own premises just got richer and richer whilst working fewer and fewer hours.
The sooner GP Practices stop being treated as external semi-private companies and are brought back into the NHS the better, it would instantly save a fortune in accounting costs administering all the national tariff payments.
People who could visit a pharmacy, or ones who have a common cold which does not require emergency care or hypochondriacs who do not actually have anything wrong with them but visit A&E a few times a week.
The Surveyor said:
The 2 main causes of the increased pressures on A&E departments are:-
A growing and aged population, and
GP's being able to be more selective over how they operate their practices
We can't do anything about increased demand due to a larger overall population and an increase in the number of older people, but we can sort out the mess that was facilitated by overly generous 2004 GP Contract. There was a step-change in the delivery of Primary Health Care following the changes to the GP Contract that gave them more autonomy when it came to how they deliver their services. That (IMHO) started the slow decline and changed the publics perception that the first point of call should be your GP not the local A&E department. Home visits declined as did 24hr care and the GP's who were lucky enough to own their own premises just got richer and richer whilst working fewer and fewer hours.
The sooner GP Practices stop being treated as external semi-private companies and are brought back into the NHS the better, it would instantly save a fortune in accounting costs administering all the national tariff payments.
You missed people that do not need to use A&E which is the biggest pressure.A growing and aged population, and
GP's being able to be more selective over how they operate their practices
We can't do anything about increased demand due to a larger overall population and an increase in the number of older people, but we can sort out the mess that was facilitated by overly generous 2004 GP Contract. There was a step-change in the delivery of Primary Health Care following the changes to the GP Contract that gave them more autonomy when it came to how they deliver their services. That (IMHO) started the slow decline and changed the publics perception that the first point of call should be your GP not the local A&E department. Home visits declined as did 24hr care and the GP's who were lucky enough to own their own premises just got richer and richer whilst working fewer and fewer hours.
The sooner GP Practices stop being treated as external semi-private companies and are brought back into the NHS the better, it would instantly save a fortune in accounting costs administering all the national tariff payments.
People who could visit a pharmacy, or ones who have a common cold which does not require emergency care or hypochondriacs who do not actually have anything wrong with them but visit A&E a few times a week.
There are some good informative posts...
Obviously mental health is a very significant problem because it leads to so many other issues...and a lot of the problems stem from childhood with poor parenting skills and life education.
A lot of people won`t like this, but a significant number of healthcare issues are also attributed to how we take personal responsibility for our own health...i.e. too many people are unfit and overweight (look at the size and shape of people in the Sweeny for instance)...there is very little excuse...but again poor life education is a part of it.
The other issue is the more recourses you throw at something, the more will be used. The bigger the room you have, the more you`ll fill it up...it`s a fact!
Until there is a structural change in our society regarding accepting personal responsibility and respect for ourselves and others, we are on an endless downward spiral...life education again.
As always, I am sure the vast majority of staff in the NHS, especially at the coal face are working extremely hard and doing their best...but sadly the unaccountable grey mandarins at the top in Whitehall will continue to receive their "gongs" for mediocrity.
Obviously mental health is a very significant problem because it leads to so many other issues...and a lot of the problems stem from childhood with poor parenting skills and life education.
A lot of people won`t like this, but a significant number of healthcare issues are also attributed to how we take personal responsibility for our own health...i.e. too many people are unfit and overweight (look at the size and shape of people in the Sweeny for instance)...there is very little excuse...but again poor life education is a part of it.
The other issue is the more recourses you throw at something, the more will be used. The bigger the room you have, the more you`ll fill it up...it`s a fact!
Until there is a structural change in our society regarding accepting personal responsibility and respect for ourselves and others, we are on an endless downward spiral...life education again.
As always, I am sure the vast majority of staff in the NHS, especially at the coal face are working extremely hard and doing their best...but sadly the unaccountable grey mandarins at the top in Whitehall will continue to receive their "gongs" for mediocrity.
piquet said:
Trust me MRI scanners do not need to sleep at night and have the weekends off.
You need radiographers to run them though! We (as a trust/radiology dept) want to get MRI running 12hrs a day 7 days a week but there aren't enough rads in the country (or support staff i.e. receptionists, assistants etc) to allow that to happen.Edited by Brainpox on Thursday 16th January 16:31
Edited by Brainpox on Thursday 16th January 16:32
Reduce the amount of people choking up A&E.
Start with idiots & fat people as a macro measure and you'd be off to a flyer.
Removing safety labels on everything will eventually reduce the number of idiots (although there may be an initial increase through A&E until the really get going....) and a big push to keep people trim and fit should help numerous drains on the health service.
Start with idiots & fat people as a macro measure and you'd be off to a flyer.
Removing safety labels on everything will eventually reduce the number of idiots (although there may be an initial increase through A&E until the really get going....) and a big push to keep people trim and fit should help numerous drains on the health service.
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