What is the one thing London needs most?
Discussion
alabbasi said:
blueg33 said:
I’m confused. Are you saying keep subsidies or get rid of them?
If you are saying get rid , I don’t see how that will bring prices down. If you make all housing available to all in London that won’t make it affordable as the supply/demand issue will remain.
I'm saying get rid of them. If you have un-affordable homes in an area that's being propped up by government subsidies ,removing the subsidies will force pricing down as people will only be able to pay for what they can really afford, not what the government is willing to kick in. Another subsidy is on council taxes which have not gone up in 30 years. Aligning council taxes with the true value of the home will likely curb the purchase of investment properties / holiday homes and provide the city with the money needed for public services. If you are saying get rid , I don’t see how that will bring prices down. If you make all housing available to all in London that won’t make it affordable as the supply/demand issue will remain.
I pay around 3% of my homes value in local property Taxes here in DFW which works out to around $9000/year. My parents home in West London is probably worth 3x the value of my home and the council tax is about 1/5th. I'm not sure that I see how much value they get from their taxes. The 15 minute walk from the tube station shows me public areas have 12" tall grass, there is rubbish everywhere and every paving stone looks like it was hit with a sledge hammer. MTC costs money and freezing council taxes for 30 years has an effect.
The fundamental problem is that the lack of financial support for social and affordable housing mean that too many houses are prone to market forces and prices are forced out of reach of normal people.
For the record.
Social housing is typically the term used for housing for rent at a formula fixed by Govt and is for people on low income
Affordable housing is typically housing at 80% of market rent and should be for people on low to median income
In London affordable housing is still stupidly expensive. If a 2 bed flat is £600k making it £480k doesn't put it in reach of people on low to median incomes.
In some parts of the north affordable housing is cheaper than social housing
Lord Marylebone said:
Don’t forget the famous saying:
“If you are tired of London you are tired of life”
Derived from the original words of Dr Samuel Johnson in 1777.
“Sir, when a man is tired of London, he is tired of life; for there is in London all that life can afford”
The irony is that Londoners as far back as Johnson think everyone else is parochial while believing that nowhere but where they know has anything worth having.“If you are tired of London you are tired of life”
Derived from the original words of Dr Samuel Johnson in 1777.
“Sir, when a man is tired of London, he is tired of life; for there is in London all that life can afford”
Edited by otolith on Friday 17th January 16:57
otolith said:
The irony is that Londoners as far back as Johnson think everyone else is parochial while believing that nowhere but where they know has anything worth having.
With real Londoners the parochialism is often even worse (and I don't mean the postcode wars of the youth gangs). I really do know people who simply would/could not contemplate going South of the River (except fleetingly to get to Gatwick). I had a neighbour who refused social housing because it was (marginally) in Tottenham Hotspur territory
.blueg33 said:
Not sure what subsidies you have in mind.
I'm referring to any instance where the the government is kicking in to pay living expenses. Council housing, subsidized housing, partially subsidized housing, rent control.... Basically anything that's not free market.blueg33 said:
If a 2 bed flat is £600k making it £480k doesn't put it in reach of people on low to median incomes.
It will make it more affordable for a group of people who live and work in London and cannot afford £600k for a flatblueg33 said:
In some parts of the north affordable housing is cheaper than social housing
This might be the point i'm trying to make. I took a hiatus from visiting England from 2003-2015. My impression in coming back is that there's too many unemployed people in London occupying prime real estate. I worked in retail in Central London in the early 90's and the impression that I got is that Ealing Broadway shopping center is busier on a Tuesday afternoon than the shopping center in Bond St Station on a Saturday back then.
We have a similar issue here in the US with healthcare where everything is over inflated because insurance companies are willing to pay the crazy prices that hospitals and health practitioners charge for their service.
Edited by alabbasi on Friday 17th January 17:28
alabbasi said:
blueg33 said:
Not sure what subsidies you have in mind.
I'm referring to any instance where the the government is kicking in to pay living expenses. Council housing, subsidized housing, partially subsidized housing, rent control.... Basically anything that's not free market.blueg33 said:
If a 2 bed flat is £600k making it £480k doesn't put it in reach of people on low to median incomes.
It will make it more affordable for a group of people who live and work in London and cannot afford £600k for a flatblueg33 said:
In some parts of the north affordable housing is cheaper than social housing
This might be the point i'm trying to make. I took a hiatus from visiting England from 2003-2015. My impression in coming back is that there's too many unemployed people in London occupying prime real estate. I worked in retail in Central London in the early 90's and the impression that I got is that Ealing Broadway shopping center is busier on a Tuesday afternoon than the shopping center in Bond St Station on a Saturday back then.
You have a similar issue here in the US with healthcare where everything is over inflated because insurance companies are willing to pay the crazy prices that hospitals and health practitioners charge for their service.
tty ex council flat in London now costs north of half a million £.blueg33 said:
Overall, I don't agree with the logic, removing subsidies will just ,mean that wealthy people will buy up the houses. Its exactly what happened with right to buy, thats why a stty ex council flat in London now costs north of half a million £.
More probably, I think the imbalance of supply and demand in the housing market is largely the economic consequence of (i) a rigorously enforced green belt, (ii) landlord antipathetic legislation and fiscal policy, and (iii) fairly crappy national and local planning policies.tty ex council flat in London now costs north of half a million £.blueg33 said:
Overall, I don't agree with the logic, removing subsidies will just ,mean that wealthy people will buy up the houses. Its exactly what happened with right to buy, thats why a stty ex council flat in London now costs north of half a million £.
We can agree to disagree, but I wouldn't say that it's only wealthy people who are buying houses in London. The majority aren't, they're just people who are tied to jobs there and are figuring it out. tty ex council flat in London now costs north of half a million £.People who aren't able to support themselves living where they live should consider moving instead of asking for somebody else to pay their way. This is how it works everywhere else.
psi310398 said:
otolith said:
The irony is that Londoners as far back as Johnson think everyone else is parochial while believing that nowhere but where they know has anything worth having.
With real Londoners the parochialism is often even worse (and I don't mean the postcode wars of the youth gangs). I really do know people who simply would/could not contemplate going South of the River (except fleetingly to get to Gatwick). I had a neighbour who refused social housing because it was (marginally) in Tottenham Hotspur territory
.
Gromm said:
SW1 and SW3 are as far as I'd go really, even then should be avoided on weekends as they get swamped by southoftheriver types.
SW6, too. Doubtless on the impeccable grounds that they actually abut the North side of the Thames and that you can catch glimpses of the real South if you are not careful. Yep. Best to err on the safe side
. Digga said:
Lord Marylebone said:
Don’t forget the famous saying:
“If you are tired of London you are tired of life”
Derived from the original words of Dr Samuel Johnson in 1777.
“Sir, when a man is tired of London, he is tired of life; for there is in London all that life can afford”
When a man is asked to pay over £5 a pint, he soon gets tired of London.“If you are tired of London you are tired of life”
Derived from the original words of Dr Samuel Johnson in 1777.
“Sir, when a man is tired of London, he is tired of life; for there is in London all that life can afford”
From the orginal works of Digga, 2019.
98elise said:
Digga said:
Lord Marylebone said:
Don’t forget the famous saying:
“If you are tired of London you are tired of life”
Derived from the original words of Dr Samuel Johnson in 1777.
“Sir, when a man is tired of London, he is tired of life; for there is in London all that life can afford”
When a man is asked to pay over £5 a pint, he soon gets tired of London.“If you are tired of London you are tired of life”
Derived from the original words of Dr Samuel Johnson in 1777.
“Sir, when a man is tired of London, he is tired of life; for there is in London all that life can afford”
From the orginal works of Digga, 2019.
Handed over a twenty pound note and it turned into a silent Mexican stand-off. I’m waiting for change and the barman’s waiting for the rest of the money!
Certainly moderated our drinking that night!
I love London having lived and worked most of my life there but it can be very expensive and it does seem there’s a London tax to be paid for the privilege.
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