Coronavirus - Is this the killer flu that will wipe us out?
Discussion
superlightr said:
how quickly could our A &E get overloaded?
We have about 10 ICU beds per 100K of pop [IIRC and stand to be corrected] which are already at 87% occupancy on average.Definition of ICU bed, emergency planning etc notwithstanding, NHS is already at a stretch. Another x000 people requiring critical care all over the country at the same time is why 'stay at home if you've been to North Italy' may seem OTT to the individual but may in fact be wiser for everyone at the moment as we watch how this develops.
p1stonhead said:
red_slr said:
The strange thing in Italy is they have reported virtually no new cases for the last 12 hours.
That really is weird. Italian authorities have announced on Tuesday the first positive coronavirus case in the South of Italy.
A woman from Bergamo, who was on holiday with her friends in Sicily, has tested positive for Convid-19. The patient, who is not in serious conditions, has been transferred to the Hospital Cervello in Palermo.
She had been on holiday in Palermo since before the outbreak of the virus in the country. Her husband and friends have been quarantined for at least the next 15 days as Italian authorities scramble to contain the worst outbreak of the virus in Europe and the third worst in the world.
In the meantime, a 60-year old Italian entrepreneur from Florence, who came back from Singapore, has also tested positive for Convid-19, as the number of confirmed cases in the country rises to over 220, with seven deaths.
All those who have died had underlying health problems.
On Monday, the country’s prime minister Giuseppe Conte blamed the surge on a hospital he did not name, citing that the disease had spread ‘’because safety protocols were not respected’’.
“The economic impact of the virus could be very strong’’, Conte added, “At this moment, we can calculate that there will be a negative economic impact, we are not yet in a position to forecast what will happen’’.
On Saturday, the Italian authorities implemented draconian measures to try to halt the coronavirus outbreak in the north of the country, including imposing fines on anyone caught entering or leaving outbreak areas.
More than 3,000 tests for coronavirus have been carried out over the last few days, although authorities are still trying to identity “patient zero” – the person who brought the virus to the region. The first man infected, a researcher at Unilever, came down with symptoms after attending a dinner at which there was a colleague who had recently returned from China, who tested negative for the virus.
“The peak in Italy is partly due to all the tests being done,” said Roberta Siliquini, a former president of Italy’s higher health council. “We have found positive cases in people who probably had few or no symptoms and who may have overcome the virus without even knowing it.”
Meanwhile, Maltese chandlers and port workers in Paola and Valletta, in Malta, have stopped their operations over coronavirus fears, refusing to board vessels coming from Italy to unload cargo, Malta Today has reported.
According to MaltaToday, “port workers are complaining of a lack of medical staff in the area as they handle cargo that has arrived from Italian ports.’’
The Italian government has been criticised for hastily cancelling flights to and from China as, without coherence across Europe, people have been able to fly to other European cities and enter Italy from there.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/feb/25...
RTB said:
It wasn't aimed at you, it was aimed at the perception that any flu infection leads to a week in bed hovering close to death. All of the serological studies indicate that at least 2/3 of flu infections don't result in any symptoms and of the remaining third most of them are very mild. In other words, it's quite possible to have a flu infection and the only symptoms would be a slightly raised temperature and a bit of fatigue for a 12-24 hours. In fact, going off the serological data most reasonable people
would expect that most of the time a flu infection wouldn't result in disease that lasts multiple days.https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/1403...
andy_s said:
superlightr said:
how quickly could our A &E get overloaded?
We have about 10 ICU beds per 100K of pop [IIRC and stand to be corrected] which are already at 87% occupancy on average.Definition of ICU bed, emergency planning etc notwithstanding, NHS is already at a stretch. Another x000 people requiring critical care all over the country at the same time is why 'stay at home if you've been to North Italy and have coronavirus-like symptoms' may seem OTT to the individual but may in fact be wiser for everyone at the moment as we watch how this develops.
RTB said:
It wasn't aimed at you, it was aimed at the perception that any flu infection leads to a week in bed hovering close to death. All of the serological studies indicate that at least 2/3 of flu infections don't result in any symptoms and of the remaining third most of them are very mild. In other words, it's quite possible to have a flu infection and the only symptoms would be a slightly raised temperature and a bit of fatigue for a 12-24 hours. In fact, going off the serological data most reasonable people
would expect that most of the time a flu infection wouldn't result in disease that lasts multiple days.https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/1403...
WindyCommon said:
andy_s said:
superlightr said:
how quickly could our A &E get overloaded?
We have about 10 ICU beds per 100K of pop [IIRC and stand to be corrected] which are already at 87% occupancy on average.Definition of ICU bed, emergency planning etc notwithstanding, NHS is already at a stretch. Another x000 people requiring critical care all over the country at the same time is why 'stay at home if you've been to North Italy and have coronavirus-like symptoms' may seem OTT to the individual but may in fact be wiser for everyone at the moment as we watch how this develops.
Has anyone seen a decent map which defines the boundaries of the lockdown zones?
red_slr said:
If I use a toilet in a restaurant or pub (something I avoid at all costs) I will always try and grab the handle with my shirt or jacket. Been doing that for 20 years. Better still if its a swing type door just use my foot or knee.
And I *never* wash my hands in a restaurant or pub toilet the sinks and taps must be crawling with bacteria and the paper towel dispensers too. Never use a stall, only a urinal. Try and keep my hands away from the "splash back" and I generally try and keep the "flow rate" low..
to avoid splash back. Other than that not much else I can do in that regard.
Since the invention of hand gel I always have some in the car, so use that as soon as I get back into the car. Wifey usually has some in her handbag too.
So it’s you that sAnd I *never* wash my hands in a restaurant or pub toilet the sinks and taps must be crawling with bacteria and the paper towel dispensers too. Never use a stall, only a urinal. Try and keep my hands away from the "splash back" and I generally try and keep the "flow rate" low..
to avoid splash back. Other than that not much else I can do in that regard.Since the invention of hand gel I always have some in the car, so use that as soon as I get back into the car. Wifey usually has some in her handbag too.
ts in the urinals....
superlightr said:
when it does start spreading in the UK ie via a school, major city etc and i believe it will - what is the likely reaction of the govt?
1) Suspend all travel/schools/public transport try to limit the spread? ie major action that will disrupt the country.
or
2) carry on as normal but with advice of washing hands and hygiene and treating serious cases? trying to limit disruption to normal life in the country.
My concern is that if option 2 happens (which I think may be the only real option for various reasons) will be then as others has posted as how ill does this make the general public? how quickly could our A &E get overloaded?
Food supplies - how will this affect that aspect for either option?
It will be option 2 unless people are dropping dead on the street. Nobody has the balls here to call it out or stop people going to work, even suggesting working from home would be frowned upon. 1) Suspend all travel/schools/public transport try to limit the spread? ie major action that will disrupt the country.
or
2) carry on as normal but with advice of washing hands and hygiene and treating serious cases? trying to limit disruption to normal life in the country.
My concern is that if option 2 happens (which I think may be the only real option for various reasons) will be then as others has posted as how ill does this make the general public? how quickly could our A &E get overloaded?
Food supplies - how will this affect that aspect for either option?
It does appear that its only a matter of time until its here in bigger numbers. Judging by the amount of people openly coughing on the tube today I would suggest its probably already here, just not spoken about!
MaxFromage said:
I suppose that was obvious given how one person can get a bad cold, and another with the same virus barely notices. However I'd never really given it thought and assumed flu always meant you get a 'bad case' of flu.
It surprised me as well when I first read the studies. But then I thought how many times have you got home from work feeling a little bit achy or a bit "virusy" (headache, a bit warm, tired) but it's never really amounted to anything? We've all had days where we felt a bit unwell, with a slightly raised temp and a cracking headache only to wake up feeling much brighter. I assume that an awful lot of CoVid19 sufferers have had a similar experience. It's still a worry that a lot have had much less trivial experiences though.
We swim in a soup of viruses and bacteria, it's amazing we aren't ill more often, then again we all come from an unbroken line of ancestors going back 3.5 billion years that have fended off fatal infection long enough to reproduce
red_slr said:
Never use the traps, can use the urinal without touching any part of my lower body.
Almost never use the toilets for starters and if I do then its always on the way out - trust me I don't want to eat food after going near the toilets.
How you've been using the bathroom wrong your entire lifeAlmost never use the toilets for starters and if I do then its always on the way out - trust me I don't want to eat food after going near the toilets.
nffcforever said:
Has anyone seen a decent map which defines the boundaries of the lockdown zones?
It appears that they have identified towns, rather than defined zones. The word “zones” is your introduction, which you’ve then used to open up a question around boundaries. I find this tedious.https://www.thelocal.it/20200224/map-which-parts-o...
Which Italian towns are on lockdown?
In the region of Lombardy: Codogno; Castiglione d’Adda; Casalpusterlengo; Fombio; Maleo; Somaglia; Bertonico; Terranova dei Passerini; Castelgerundo; and San Fiorano.
In the region of Veneto: Vo’Euganeo.
Edited by WindyCommon on Tuesday 25th February 10:46
Edited by WindyCommon on Tuesday 25th February 10:47
Some interesting new stats available by region in the tracking portals. Now showing the exsisting "live" cases.
UK
Confirmed: 13
Deaths: 0
Recovered: 8
Existing: 5.00
Italy
Confirmed: 270
Deaths: 7
Recovered: 1
Existing: 262.00
"Diamond Princess" cruise ship, Others
Confirmed: 691
Deaths: 3
Recovered: 0
Existing: 688.00
South Korea
Confirmed: 977
Deaths: 10
Recovered: 22
Existing: 945.00
UK
Confirmed: 13
Deaths: 0
Recovered: 8
Existing: 5.00
Italy
Confirmed: 270
Deaths: 7
Recovered: 1
Existing: 262.00
"Diamond Princess" cruise ship, Others
Confirmed: 691
Deaths: 3
Recovered: 0
Existing: 688.00
South Korea
Confirmed: 977
Deaths: 10
Recovered: 22
Existing: 945.00
It's all very well saying self isolate if you have been to X country but surly even after returning you could have infected a whole load of other people just walking off the plane and getting back to your car.
Most flights for each terminal will use the same toilets, travelator, hand rails, border gates, baggage carousel and so on. If these are not being sanitised then surely its just spreading germs around.
I was in Heathrow last week and apart from in the toilets. There was no hand sanitiser anywhere.
Most flights for each terminal will use the same toilets, travelator, hand rails, border gates, baggage carousel and so on. If these are not being sanitised then surely its just spreading germs around.
I was in Heathrow last week and apart from in the toilets. There was no hand sanitiser anywhere.
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