Van driver guilty of wounding PC

Van driver guilty of wounding PC

Author
Discussion

Crumpet

3,897 posts

181 months

Friday 24th January 2020
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Red 4 said:
... Out in 10 years then, aged 66.
And potentially still young enough and fit enough to inflict more injuries or death on some other poor bugger. There really should be a three strikes rule.

Vanden Saab

14,165 posts

75 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
Three years on licence after the 16 years so on licence until he is 75 if I understand it correctly
IANAL

hutchst

3,706 posts

97 months

Friday 24th January 2020
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JuanCarlosFandango said:
Presumably even if the policeman had died he would have been prosecuted for manslaughter rather than murder? All else being equal.

I think our laws around homicide need a big rethink.

We need something like second degree murder for cases of malicious attack leading to death as distinct from manslaughter, which I think is more commonly understood to mean accidental killing through carelessness or stupidity.

Something like this could be treated as a sub offence of second degree attempted murder (preferably better named) to reflect the difference between reckless accidents and lethal violence.
The Law Commission made its recommendations to change the laws to the last labour government about 15 years ago. So far they haven't been adopted by parliament, rightly in my opinion.

PurpleTurtle

7,030 posts

145 months

Friday 24th January 2020
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98elise said:
It's a dangerous path when possession is deemed an offense. I have a machete that I use in the garden. I also have a small axe. The axe is far more dangerous if used as a weapon. A claw hammer is probably somewhere in between.

All have a legitimate use.
Do you actually need a machete though? Every gardening job I have tackled in the UK that has involved chopping back large amounts of vegetation has been easily achievable with a combination of small hand tools and power tools.

Machetes being sold lawfully puts a very dangerous weapon into circulation. I have long associated them with the Rwandan genocide, as they were the weapon of choice for mass killing there. Having been to the Genocide Memorial in Kigali I go a tad cold every time I see one.

amusingduck

9,398 posts

137 months

Friday 24th January 2020
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PurpleTurtle said:
Do you actually need a machete though? Every gardening job I have tackled in the UK that has involved chopping back large amounts of vegetation has been easily achievable with a combination of small hand tools and power tools.

Machetes being sold lawfully puts a very dangerous weapon into circulation. I have long associated them with the Rwandan genocide, as they were the weapon of choice for mass killing there. Having been to the Genocide Memorial in Kigali I go a tad cold every time I see one.
How is your argument not a variation of this:


The number of everyday items you could use to inflict massive harm on people is endless, why focus on machetes? I'd imagine machetes are far less practical than kitchen knives for the discerning blade carrying thug.

oyster

12,613 posts

249 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
Mastodon2 said:
The abject failure that is the British legal system all on show in one trial.
Which system would have got a better result, in your opinion?

JuanCarlosFandango

7,815 posts

72 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
16 years is pathetic. He'll be out in 8, and based on previous convictions will probably offend violently again.

He should be hanged.

98elise

26,686 posts

162 months

Friday 24th January 2020
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PurpleTurtle said:
98elise said:
It's a dangerous path when possession is deemed an offense. I have a machete that I use in the garden. I also have a small axe. The axe is far more dangerous if used as a weapon. A claw hammer is probably somewhere in between.

All have a legitimate use.
Do you actually need a machete though? Every gardening job I have tackled in the UK that has involved chopping back large amounts of vegetation has been easily achievable with a combination of small hand tools and power tools.

Machetes being sold lawfully puts a very dangerous weapon into circulation. I have long associated them with the Rwandan genocide, as they were the weapon of choice for mass killing there. Having been to the Genocide Memorial in Kigali I go a tad cold every time I see one.
Of course I don't need one, but a lot of my gardening tools could be used to hurt or kill. When used properly (as in clearing vegetation) they are very effective.

My kitchen knives are also dangerous weapons if used against a person.

aaron_2000

5,407 posts

84 months

Friday 24th January 2020
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Wouldn't it be best just to take him to the vet and have him put to sleep?

Digga

40,373 posts

284 months

Friday 24th January 2020
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JuanCarlosFandango said:
16 years is pathetic. He'll be out in 8, and based on previous convictions will probably offend violently again.

He should be hanged.
Given his utter lack of remorse, the ferocity of the attack and his previous convictions, I'd like to see some sort of 3 strikes and out type sentencing in the UK, once we have sufficient prison places, because the general public deserve to be protected from worthless grubs like this.

Until then, I can see 16 years is the best we can do.

Mojooo

12,762 posts

181 months

Friday 24th January 2020
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He needs to serve 2/3 of sentences so 10.6 years.

over_the_hill

3,189 posts

247 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
98elise said:
PurpleTurtle said:
98elise said:
It's a dangerous path when possession is deemed an offense. I have a machete that I use in the garden. I also have a small axe. The axe is far more dangerous if used as a weapon. A claw hammer is probably somewhere in between.

All have a legitimate use.
Do you actually need a machete though? Every gardening job I have tackled in the UK that has involved chopping back large amounts of vegetation has been easily achievable with a combination of small hand tools and power tools.

Machetes being sold lawfully puts a very dangerous weapon into circulation. I have long associated them with the Rwandan genocide, as they were the weapon of choice for mass killing there. Having been to the Genocide Memorial in Kigali I go a tad cold every time I see one.
Of course I don't need one, but a lot of my gardening tools could be used to hurt or kill. When used properly (as in clearing vegetation) they are very effective.

My kitchen knives are also dangerous weapons if used against a person.
Righty-Ho - so if he is running a gardening business he must have some invoices or paperwork to support the claim.
Of course it wouldn't be cash in hand with no record at HMRC and still claiming benefits.

Is that too simple ?

Fatball

645 posts

60 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
Sophie Khan is asking on twitter why the met have not started disciplinary action against the officer for assaulting the offender. The world, or her world has gone mad.


s1962a

5,363 posts

163 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
Fatball said:
Sophie Khan is asking on twitter why the met have not started disciplinary action against the officer for assaulting the offender. The world, or her world has gone mad.
Where are you seeing this?

https://twitter.com/khan_sophie?ref_src=twsrc%5Ego...

98elise

26,686 posts

162 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
over_the_hill said:
98elise said:
PurpleTurtle said:
98elise said:
It's a dangerous path when possession is deemed an offense. I have a machete that I use in the garden. I also have a small axe. The axe is far more dangerous if used as a weapon. A claw hammer is probably somewhere in between.

All have a legitimate use.
Do you actually need a machete though? Every gardening job I have tackled in the UK that has involved chopping back large amounts of vegetation has been easily achievable with a combination of small hand tools and power tools.

Machetes being sold lawfully puts a very dangerous weapon into circulation. I have long associated them with the Rwandan genocide, as they were the weapon of choice for mass killing there. Having been to the Genocide Memorial in Kigali I go a tad cold every time I see one.
Of course I don't need one, but a lot of my gardening tools could be used to hurt or kill. When used properly (as in clearing vegetation) they are very effective.

My kitchen knives are also dangerous weapons if used against a person.
Righty-Ho - so if he is running a gardening business he must have some invoices or paperwork to support the claim.
Of course it wouldn't be cash in hand with no record at HMRC and still claiming benefits.

Is that too simple ?
Not sure what your point is? Being a gardener doesn't mitigate using a machete on a person so it doesn't matter what he claims to be.

anonymous-user

55 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
s1962a said:
Fatball said:
Sophie Khan is asking on twitter why the met have not started disciplinary action against the officer for assaulting the offender. The world, or her world has gone mad.
Where are you seeing this?

https://twitter.com/khan_sophie?ref_src=twsrc%5Ego...
https://twitter.com/khan_sophie/status/1220465565690748928

I think she is to be ignored.

Shaw Tarse

31,544 posts

204 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
s1962a said:
Fatball said:
Sophie Khan is asking on twitter why the met have not started disciplinary action against the officer for assaulting the offender. The world, or her world has gone mad.
Where are you seeing this?

https://twitter.com/khan_sophie?ref_src=twsrc%5Ego...

Possibly fake/deleted?

milkround

1,122 posts

80 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
PurpleTurtle said:
Do you actually need a machete though? Every gardening job I have tackled in the UK that has involved chopping back large amounts of vegetation has been easily achievable with a combination of small hand tools and power tools.

Machetes being sold lawfully puts a very dangerous weapon into circulation. I have long associated them with the Rwandan genocide, as they were the weapon of choice for mass killing there. Having been to the Genocide Memorial in Kigali I go a tad cold every time I see one.
What about a chainsaw? That would cause a lot more damage. The new high powered electric ones wouldn't even give you a chance to get back before it was started. I don't think it's unreasonable to have a machete if you are a genuine gardener. (Even though I've never felt the need for one doing gardening).

I think you can look too deep into absolute need. I carry a Leatherman at work. Driving lorries. It could be argued I don't absolutely need it - but it's very useful to have. I'm not sure if it's legal or not. DVSA have seen it when checking over my truck and never said anything etc. I'd be a bit upset if I was arrested for having it at work. I wouldn't be taking it on a night out mind you.

Red 4

10,744 posts

188 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
s1962a said:
Fatball said:
Sophie Khan is asking on twitter why the met have not started disciplinary action against the officer for assaulting the offender. The world, or her world has gone mad.
Where are you seeing this?

https://twitter.com/khan_sophie?ref_src=twsrc%5Ego...
She's quoting snippets of the Judge's sentencing remarks - presumably in an attempt to suggest that PC Outten was using excessive force.

Unfortunately for her the Judge really didn't see it that way - hence a 16 year sentence.

Silly bint.