New petrol and diesel vehicles sales ban in UK from 2035
Discussion
FiF said:
Which comes to another thing, the purchase price of the bloody things. I'm looking at various options, getting ready for when my current daily gets to the stage where it needs replacement, I'm ignoring the towing and wilderness question, the difference in price for a typical ICE and it's BEV version would buy me several years worth of fuel. Yes I know it's more complicated than that simple view but it's important.
The other thing is that the argument for offsetting the extra purchase price by cheap electricity is going to be blown out of the water because governments are goung to have to replace lost duty and tax income from sale of petrol and diesel. Road pricing, tracking and a monthly bill, that's where it will go, mark my words.
I'm sorry Boris, but this is a WTF moment.
I actually ran some numbers at the weekend as I want to ditch my gas-guzzling second car for a Skoda Citigo some time this year. I spotted that they've dropped the petrol one entirely and that the electric one can be leased for £175 a month. When you drop in the saving on fuel it's not a bad option. I think I worked out I'm paying 20p per mile, which falls to 12p for a petrol Citigo, but 0.04p for the electric one. The electric one is 80bhp and 200n/m, so should be quicker too.The other thing is that the argument for offsetting the extra purchase price by cheap electricity is going to be blown out of the water because governments are goung to have to replace lost duty and tax income from sale of petrol and diesel. Road pricing, tracking and a monthly bill, that's where it will go, mark my words.
I'm sorry Boris, but this is a WTF moment.
But it looks like it's too new to the market and the price quoted isn't real, will be interesting to see what the real price is, but I can see that something like that would make sense for a 50 mile round-trip commute 5 days a week, plus some weekend driving. There must be cases where it makes sense because of the lower fuel cost.
I worked out having to amortise a £20k purchase price it needs 10 years to get the costs comparable with just sticking with what I have and 20 compared with dropping £5k into a petrol Citigo. So I suspect the numbers won't work for me when they are priced properly to lease.
Though you're right that the Government will find a way to charge you more for the electricity for the car. I suspect something like having the charging cable tied to an account will be the way that's done, so perhaps getting the infrastructure early rather than after the Government have 'tampered' with it is the way to go.
Gove was just on the radio about this, he refused to say how much this policy would cost and ultimately claimed it would be a net saving. Will it f
k.
Coolbananas said:
Excellent news, of course and I wish Boris all the very best in delivering that - I only hope similar happens where I live too. 
The whingers who refuse to adapt can moan all they like - it is happening and they will be forced to comply. The car-ownership model, shared-use and public transport etc, it is all changing. Those who cannot solve any infrastructure issues to support their own car will have to use shared, Uber-type solutions or public transport. All good. Adapt or stay home
Problem is, I suspect a lot of people will stay home. The whingers who refuse to adapt can moan all they like - it is happening and they will be forced to comply. The car-ownership model, shared-use and public transport etc, it is all changing. Those who cannot solve any infrastructure issues to support their own car will have to use shared, Uber-type solutions or public transport. All good. Adapt or stay home
We’ve been here before. Planners and government decided that cars were bad, and councils ferociously made life awkward for drivers. What happened? High streets were annihilated. People had an easier, cheaper alternative and just took it.
Same will happen here. Are we going to go out and spend some money, or sit at home and watch Netflix? Make it awkward and/or expensive to move, and they will indeed stay at home.
The resulting unemployment (mainly in groups of people who are pretty marginal already) is going to be catastrophic. Remember that these people can vote....
Steve vRS said:
It could go one of two ways. The market may still want internal combustion and so with the supply of new cars being eliminated, the demand for good used models may increase.
Used prices for petrol and diesel vehicles will increase with the demand.The Government are hoping that cars will only last 15 years to meet the 2050 virtual zero carbon target.
rxe said:
Problem is, I suspect a lot of people will stay home.
We’ve been here before. Planners and government decided that cars were bad, and councils ferociously made life awkward for drivers. What happened? High streets were annihilated. People had an easier, cheaper alternative and just took it.
Same will happen here. Are we going to go out and spend some money, or sit at home and watch Netflix? Make it awkward and/or expensive to move, and they will indeed stay at home.
The resulting unemployment (mainly in groups of people who are pretty marginal already) is going to be catastrophic. Remember that these people can vote....
The internet explains most of this. We’ve been here before. Planners and government decided that cars were bad, and councils ferociously made life awkward for drivers. What happened? High streets were annihilated. People had an easier, cheaper alternative and just took it.
Same will happen here. Are we going to go out and spend some money, or sit at home and watch Netflix? Make it awkward and/or expensive to move, and they will indeed stay at home.
The resulting unemployment (mainly in groups of people who are pretty marginal already) is going to be catastrophic. Remember that these people can vote....
rxe said:
Problem is, I suspect a lot of people will stay home.
We’ve been here before. Planners and government decided that cars were bad, and councils ferociously made life awkward for drivers. What happened? High streets were annihilated. People had an easier, cheaper alternative and just took it.
Same will happen here. Are we going to go out and spend some money, or sit at home and watch Netflix? Make it awkward and/or expensive to move, and they will indeed stay at home.
The resulting unemployment (mainly in groups of people who are pretty marginal already) is going to be catastrophic. Remember that these people can vote....
High streets outside of high-density tourist zones are going anyway, regardless. Surely all businesses now realise this - most are adapting. We’ve been here before. Planners and government decided that cars were bad, and councils ferociously made life awkward for drivers. What happened? High streets were annihilated. People had an easier, cheaper alternative and just took it.
Same will happen here. Are we going to go out and spend some money, or sit at home and watch Netflix? Make it awkward and/or expensive to move, and they will indeed stay at home.
The resulting unemployment (mainly in groups of people who are pretty marginal already) is going to be catastrophic. Remember that these people can vote....
Tech and modernisation always results in shifts in employment areas and patterns, it isn't going to stop just because some can't accept change or adapt their skillsets.
Yes, they can vote. Nice. It'll make sod-all difference though in cases such as this because all major Parties will tow the line towards modernisation, efficiency and tackling human-caused issues. The entire World is moving in the same direction - some countries slower than others, but they will all get there because they will have to.
From personal experience, as an experiment I bought a BEV (i3) a couple of years ago and kept the 330d because I liked it and as sort of an insurance policy in case the i3 experiment failed my lifestyle test. Long story short, the 330d got sold, I have a newer i3 and range has never been as issue. I live in the country, 60 mile round trip to nearest city, 20-30 mile round trip from nearest main town. For 99% of the journeys I do, range is not an issue, and at least here in Scotland there are plenty of on-street chargers to be found but I charge on the drive at home.
For the vast majority of people, the problem won't be range, but changing perceptions. I found all manner of reasons why I needed a car that could do 600 miles between fill-ups. Turned out these trips are few and far between so the 330d sat for weeks and months on end parked up.
Real issues will be:
1, how people charge at home when they don't have a drive - there will be a serious need for increased chargers.
2, power generation - millions of EV's plugged in at night will be a massive additional draw on power.
3, UK industry - how many jobs will be lost as the investment cost for EV drives further consolidation in manufacturing.
4, demand for petrol and vehicle cars in the next 10-15 years. Will demand fall off a cliff and depreciation be savage? It really depends on what they plan for tax on fuel / CO2, as I'm assuming there isn't going to be a ban on using petrol / diesel after 2035, just on selling new ones. Maybe older cars will start to appreciate in value as new-supply will be cut off so people keep them longer?
I still have a 2nd car in the garage, now a Discovery 4. It's big, comfortable, thirsty and expensive to run. The times it does go out I'm genuinely gobsmacked that I used to think it perfectly normal to fill up a car and swill £60-£70 a time into the tank without thinking. Today, it's really eye opening as the i3 is so cheap to run. So, it also sits in the garage for weeks and months on end, but I quite like it.
I have wondered whether the next 15 years are the golden period to indulge in the wheels I've wanted for ages, before they all go extinct or get too old.
For the vast majority of people, the problem won't be range, but changing perceptions. I found all manner of reasons why I needed a car that could do 600 miles between fill-ups. Turned out these trips are few and far between so the 330d sat for weeks and months on end parked up.
Real issues will be:
1, how people charge at home when they don't have a drive - there will be a serious need for increased chargers.
2, power generation - millions of EV's plugged in at night will be a massive additional draw on power.
3, UK industry - how many jobs will be lost as the investment cost for EV drives further consolidation in manufacturing.
4, demand for petrol and vehicle cars in the next 10-15 years. Will demand fall off a cliff and depreciation be savage? It really depends on what they plan for tax on fuel / CO2, as I'm assuming there isn't going to be a ban on using petrol / diesel after 2035, just on selling new ones. Maybe older cars will start to appreciate in value as new-supply will be cut off so people keep them longer?
I still have a 2nd car in the garage, now a Discovery 4. It's big, comfortable, thirsty and expensive to run. The times it does go out I'm genuinely gobsmacked that I used to think it perfectly normal to fill up a car and swill £60-£70 a time into the tank without thinking. Today, it's really eye opening as the i3 is so cheap to run. So, it also sits in the garage for weeks and months on end, but I quite like it.
I have wondered whether the next 15 years are the golden period to indulge in the wheels I've wanted for ages, before they all go extinct or get too old.
Edited by biggles330d on Tuesday 4th February 09:00
biggles330d said:
From personal experience, as an experiment I bought a BEV (i3) a couple of years ago and kept the 330d because I liked it and as sort of an insurance policy in case the i3 experiment failed my lifestyle test. Long story short, the 330d got sold, I have a newer i3 and range has never been as issue. I live in the country, 60 mile round trip to nearest city, 20-30 mile round trip from nearest main town. For 99% of the journeys I do, range is not an issue, and at least here in Scotland there are plenty of on-street chargers to be found but I charge on the drive at home.
For the vast majority of people, the problem won't be range, but changing perceptions. I found all manner of reasons why I needed a car that could do 600 miles between fill-ups. Turned out these trips are few and far between so the 330d sat for weeks and months on end parked up.
Real issues will be:
1, how people charge at home when they don't have a drive - there will be a serious need for increased chargers.
2, power generation - millions of EV's plugged in at night will be a massive additional draw on power.
3, UK industry - how many jobs will be lost as the investment cost for EV drives further consolidation in manufacturing.
4, demand for petrol and vehicle cars in the next 10-15 years. Will demand fall off a cliff and depreciation be savage? It really depends on what they plan for tax on fuel / CO2, as I'm assuming there isn't going to be a ban on using petrol / diesel after 2035, just on selling new ones. Maybe older cars will start to appreciate in value as new-supply will be cut off so people keep them longer?
I still have a 2nd car in the garage, now a Discovery 4. It's big, comfortable, thirsty and expensive to run. It also sits in the garage for weeks and months on end, but I quite like it.
I have wondered whether the next 15 years are the golden period to indulge in the wheels I've wanted for ages, before they all go extinct or get too old.
I think Scotland's world-beating capacity to produce as much solar power during the night as during the day should help you out.For the vast majority of people, the problem won't be range, but changing perceptions. I found all manner of reasons why I needed a car that could do 600 miles between fill-ups. Turned out these trips are few and far between so the 330d sat for weeks and months on end parked up.
Real issues will be:
1, how people charge at home when they don't have a drive - there will be a serious need for increased chargers.
2, power generation - millions of EV's plugged in at night will be a massive additional draw on power.
3, UK industry - how many jobs will be lost as the investment cost for EV drives further consolidation in manufacturing.
4, demand for petrol and vehicle cars in the next 10-15 years. Will demand fall off a cliff and depreciation be savage? It really depends on what they plan for tax on fuel / CO2, as I'm assuming there isn't going to be a ban on using petrol / diesel after 2035, just on selling new ones. Maybe older cars will start to appreciate in value as new-supply will be cut off so people keep them longer?
I still have a 2nd car in the garage, now a Discovery 4. It's big, comfortable, thirsty and expensive to run. It also sits in the garage for weeks and months on end, but I quite like it.
I have wondered whether the next 15 years are the golden period to indulge in the wheels I've wanted for ages, before they all go extinct or get too old.
Coolbananas said:
Excellent news, of course and I wish Boris all the very best in delivering that - I only hope similar happens where I live too.
The whingers who refuse to adapt can moan all they like - it is happening and they will be forced to comply. The car-ownership model, shared-use and public transport etc, it is all changing. Those who cannot solve any infrastructure issues to support their own car will have to use shared, Uber-type solutions or public transport. All good. Adapt or stay home
You're in the wrong forum, please go awayThe whingers who refuse to adapt can moan all they like - it is happening and they will be forced to comply. The car-ownership model, shared-use and public transport etc, it is all changing. Those who cannot solve any infrastructure issues to support their own car will have to use shared, Uber-type solutions or public transport. All good. Adapt or stay home
I can’t help but think that cars built between 2030-35 will become instant classics.
I currently have a 30-year old BMW Cabrio that I have owned from new and drives like a dream. I don’t see EV sales suddenly taking-off. They are currently being bought by the over 55s.
The other big question will be how will Greta’s generation view personal mobility when they have a couple of kids and associated ancillaries to move about on a daily basis.
Governments changing policies is one thing, getting 7-10 billion people on the planet to do something that might impact them, in a negative way, is a whole different matter.
I currently have a 30-year old BMW Cabrio that I have owned from new and drives like a dream. I don’t see EV sales suddenly taking-off. They are currently being bought by the over 55s.
The other big question will be how will Greta’s generation view personal mobility when they have a couple of kids and associated ancillaries to move about on a daily basis.
Governments changing policies is one thing, getting 7-10 billion people on the planet to do something that might impact them, in a negative way, is a whole different matter.
paulrockliffe said:
FiF said:
Which comes to another thing, the purchase price of the bloody things. I'm looking at various options, getting ready for when my current daily gets to the stage where it needs replacement, I'm ignoring the towing and wilderness question, the difference in price for a typical ICE and it's BEV version would buy me several years worth of fuel. Yes I know it's more complicated than that simple view but it's important.
The other thing is that the argument for offsetting the extra purchase price by cheap electricity is going to be blown out of the water because governments are goung to have to replace lost duty and tax income from sale of petrol and diesel. Road pricing, tracking and a monthly bill, that's where it will go, mark my words.
I'm sorry Boris, but this is a WTF moment.
I actually ran some numbers at the weekend as I want to ditch my gas-guzzling second car for a Skoda Citigo some time this year. I spotted that they've dropped the petrol one entirely and that the electric one can be leased for £175 a month. When you drop in the saving on fuel it's not a bad option. I think I worked out I'm paying 20p per mile, which falls to 12p for a petrol Citigo, but 0.04p for the electric one. The electric one is 80bhp and 200n/m, so should be quicker too.The other thing is that the argument for offsetting the extra purchase price by cheap electricity is going to be blown out of the water because governments are goung to have to replace lost duty and tax income from sale of petrol and diesel. Road pricing, tracking and a monthly bill, that's where it will go, mark my words.
I'm sorry Boris, but this is a WTF moment.
But it looks like it's too new to the market and the price quoted isn't real, will be interesting to see what the real price is, but I can see that something like that would make sense for a 50 mile round-trip commute 5 days a week, plus some weekend driving. There must be cases where it makes sense because of the lower fuel cost.
I worked out having to amortise a £20k purchase price it needs 10 years to get the costs comparable with just sticking with what I have and 20 compared with dropping £5k into a petrol Citigo. So I suspect the numbers won't work for me when they are priced properly to lease.
Though you're right that the Government will find a way to charge you more for the electricity for the car. I suspect something like having the charging cable tied to an account will be the way that's done, so perhaps getting the infrastructure early rather than after the Government have 'tampered' with it is the way to go.
Gove was just on the radio about this, he refused to say how much this policy would cost and ultimately claimed it would be a net saving. Will it f
k.https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/interna...
Piha said:
Those bemoaning the demise of petrol and diesel vehicles need to stop moaning and get behind the idea. If we all get together and support this move, then together, we can make a big success of it.
It's time to stop moaning and time to start supporting....
Yes !!! maybe time to see if your Transporter is eligible for scrappage with nissan !!! an NV200 combi van in the drive soon perhaps ???It's time to stop moaning and time to start supporting....
Edited by powerstroke on Tuesday 4th February 09:26
robinessex said:
“IONITY, Europe’s network for high-power-charging of electric vehicles, announced it will raise its charging prices by over 500 percent effective January 31, 2020”
https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/interna...
I presume that they're already charging a significant multiple of the electricity cost? To be honest, they probably need milk it as much as the market will sustain if they're going to build a network that can support all cars.https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/interna...
Are we heading towards expensive charging for people that can't afford houses that can support charging infrastructure and expensive charging for the proles? Seems like a sensible plan that couldn't possibly end badly.....
robinessex said:
Coolbananas said:
Excellent news, of course and I wish Boris all the very best in delivering that - I only hope similar happens where I live too.
The whingers who refuse to adapt can moan all they like - it is happening and they will be forced to comply. The car-ownership model, shared-use and public transport etc, it is all changing. Those who cannot solve any infrastructure issues to support their own car will have to use shared, Uber-type solutions or public transport. All good. Adapt or stay home
You're in the wrong forum, please go awayThe whingers who refuse to adapt can moan all they like - it is happening and they will be forced to comply. The car-ownership model, shared-use and public transport etc, it is all changing. Those who cannot solve any infrastructure issues to support their own car will have to use shared, Uber-type solutions or public transport. All good. Adapt or stay home
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Coolbananas said:
Excellent news, of course and I wish Boris all the very best in delivering that - I only hope similar happens where I live too.
That's a massive tongue you have in your cheek there.All this talk of net zero emissions is utter bunkum as has been discussed exhaustively.
So scrap your old ice car and go out and buy a brand new ev.like they grow on trees and require no manufacturing at all.
I think I actually heard that they want NO ice cars on the road by then including existing ones.
But I might be wrong
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