New petrol and diesel vehicles sales ban in UK from 2035
Discussion
JNW1 said:
But big, noisy, polluting, engines in cars owned and driven by enthusiasts represent a tiny proportion of the total vehicle population on our roads. The smokers you're talking about ruined the atmosphere for almost everyone in a pub and were quite rightly stopped from doing so IMO; however, if you took all the large engined enthusiast cars off the road tomorrow it wouldn't change the overall level of vehicle pollution significantly as there simply aren't enough of them to make a difference. Therefore, seeking to highlight and target them and their owners as a matter of priority is nothing more than empty symbolism in my view - if you want to reduce total pollution from vehicles significantly you're not going to do it by focusing on the likes of M5's and C63's...
You are correct and those cars will still be usable post 2035. The legislation is for NEW vehicles post that date.JNW1 said:
Coolbananas said:
We're selfish, us car enthusiasts. Awfully so when it comes to big, noisy polluting engines. We're the equivalent of those utter a
holes who used to go to pubs and fill it with cigarette smoke, even deliberately blow it in your direction. Look what happened to them - they had to be forced to stop.
But big, noisy, polluting, engines in cars owned and driven by enthusiasts represent a tiny proportion of the total vehicle population on our roads. The smokers you're talking about ruined the atmosphere for almost everyone in a pub and were quite rightly stopped from doing so IMO; however, if you took all the large engined enthusiast cars off the road tomorrow it wouldn't change the overall level of vehicle pollution significantly as there simply aren't enough of them to make a difference. Therefore, seeking to highlight and target them and their owners as a matter of priority is nothing more than empty symbolism in my view - if you want to reduce total pollution from vehicles significantly you're not going to do it by focusing on the likes of M5's and C63's... holes who used to go to pubs and fill it with cigarette smoke, even deliberately blow it in your direction. Look what happened to them - they had to be forced to stop. As mentioned earlier setting aside the elephant in the room of where individuals sit on the climate change debate, I still see a big problem with this proposal is what the government intends to do with the money side of things.
It will need to spend vast sums to encourage change at a far faster rate than currently, ditto the installation of a charging infrastructure, alongside with a reduction in the tax intake from fuel sales, a tax collection method done at point of sale and therefore cost effective.
So how will it arrange this financial trickery. Ramp up fuel prices? Though we aren't French, hello yellow vests plus what effect will it have on inflation? Increase vehicle excise duty? Ditto. Tax on electricity used for vehicle charging with some sort of smart metering system? Possible, huge infrastructure project, plus points at current (no pun intended) smart meter fiasco. Hello road pricing? That will need another huge infrastructure project, :sigh: plus all the studies previously have thrown up huge protests on civil liberties and tracking, second plus it's been suggested it will involve a very inefficient and expensive collection system.
One thing that's also a risk, is we've seen the reaction from Govts saying "buy diesel as it's better for environment," only to go, "ah we got that wrong"; we're now seeing initial reactions from folks who went, "ok we'll follow that advice and go hybrid," only to get another, "ah well sorry about this but it turns out" etc. Really don't want to think about reaction with a future 'you know we said go electric, well it seems that....' Any recommendations in shares for yellow vest manufacturers?
It will need to spend vast sums to encourage change at a far faster rate than currently, ditto the installation of a charging infrastructure, alongside with a reduction in the tax intake from fuel sales, a tax collection method done at point of sale and therefore cost effective.
So how will it arrange this financial trickery. Ramp up fuel prices? Though we aren't French, hello yellow vests plus what effect will it have on inflation? Increase vehicle excise duty? Ditto. Tax on electricity used for vehicle charging with some sort of smart metering system? Possible, huge infrastructure project, plus points at current (no pun intended) smart meter fiasco. Hello road pricing? That will need another huge infrastructure project, :sigh: plus all the studies previously have thrown up huge protests on civil liberties and tracking, second plus it's been suggested it will involve a very inefficient and expensive collection system.
One thing that's also a risk, is we've seen the reaction from Govts saying "buy diesel as it's better for environment," only to go, "ah we got that wrong"; we're now seeing initial reactions from folks who went, "ok we'll follow that advice and go hybrid," only to get another, "ah well sorry about this but it turns out" etc. Really don't want to think about reaction with a future 'you know we said go electric, well it seems that....' Any recommendations in shares for yellow vest manufacturers?
jshell said:
Eric Mc said:
There is a good article on Motor Sport magazine this month which points out that there are versions of the internal combustion engine which may be even cleaner than electric - with none of the possibly insurmountable charging issues.
Not aimed at you personally Eric, but For fking fk's Sake!!! Does anyone think this is about cleanliness? This is politics, pure and simple. Until people understand this is zealotry and idealistic reasoning, then you can yell till your blue in the face that keeping an old IC car is greener, having a hybrid is cleaner, there are cleaner petrol engines than electric (given the whole energy cycle). They don't care, we've missed the point, this is about change.Is it greener to run your old Euro 5 car for an extra 5 years or to consume carbon and energy to scrap the old, original carbon sink and buy a split newly built luxury vehicle? If they were really green, we'd be exteding the life of marginally clean cars to save the carbon and energy cost of producing a new one....
All that will happen is that those who currently get 3 year leases or 3 yr HP deals from new on a petrol/diesel will instead do it on an EV.
Those that keep their cars for longer will continue to do so. The fuel of those cars is irrelevant.
Remember 2035 is when NEW car sales swap over, not all car sales.
Tootles the Taxi said:
Time for a mass popular uprising against the political incompetents and intellectual pygmies who govern our lives.
Can we use climate change protestors and eco lobbyists as an alternative fuel source?
This virtue signalling horsest needs to end now.
I'm going out to buy a V8 as soon as possible.
As your view represents a tiny proportion of the nation, it won't be a very popular uprising.Can we use climate change protestors and eco lobbyists as an alternative fuel source?
This virtue signalling horses
t needs to end now.I'm going out to buy a V8 as soon as possible.
On my 20 mile commute into London this morning I saw 2 teslas and 1 bmw i3.
Maybe a thousand ice cars.
I passed numerous petrol stations but saw no changing points. The number of charging points have increased significantly over the last 15 years but all that has given us is a Handful in shopping centres and supermarkets.
It just won’t be possible to provide sufficient in the next 15 years, or provide them in a convenient location.
The problem with ice cars appears to be the fuel they burn. Invent a different more environmentally friendly fuel.
Electric cars will be like minidiscs they are not the future but a stop gap until something better comes along.
Maybe a thousand ice cars.
I passed numerous petrol stations but saw no changing points. The number of charging points have increased significantly over the last 15 years but all that has given us is a Handful in shopping centres and supermarkets.
It just won’t be possible to provide sufficient in the next 15 years, or provide them in a convenient location.
The problem with ice cars appears to be the fuel they burn. Invent a different more environmentally friendly fuel.
Electric cars will be like minidiscs they are not the future but a stop gap until something better comes along.
I wonder what Ferry Porsche would make of all this?
https://www.porsche-holding.com/en/history/ferdina...
https://www.porsche-holding.com/en/history/ferdina...
Rare said:
On my 20 mile commute into London this morning I saw 2 teslas and 1 bmw i3.
Maybe a thousand ice cars.
I passed numerous petrol stations but saw no changing points. The number of charging points have increased significantly over the last 15 years but all that has given us is a Handful in shopping centres and supermarkets.
It just won’t be possible to provide sufficient in the next 15 years, or provide them in a convenient location.
The problem with ice cars appears to be the fuel they burn. Invent a different more environmentally friendly fuel.
Electric cars will be like minidiscs they are not the future but a stop gap until something better comes along.
Blimey is that all.Maybe a thousand ice cars.
I passed numerous petrol stations but saw no changing points. The number of charging points have increased significantly over the last 15 years but all that has given us is a Handful in shopping centres and supermarkets.
It just won’t be possible to provide sufficient in the next 15 years, or provide them in a convenient location.
The problem with ice cars appears to be the fuel they burn. Invent a different more environmentally friendly fuel.
Electric cars will be like minidiscs they are not the future but a stop gap until something better comes along.
I live in what could be called a less affluent area. I regularly see a couple of new Tesla model 3. We’ve probably got half a dozen i3s. and a few bigger Tesla, That’s without a number of hybrids which seem very popular around here.
What do you consider is better?
I’m not sure what your background is but inventing fuel is no easy matter. Irrespective the ice is horrendously inefficient at turning energy into motion. That’s just physics.
I love the quietness and instant acceleration.
15 years is a massive time if companies are persuaded to invest in research.
Langweilig said:
I wonder what Ferry Porsche would make of all this?
https://www.porsche-holding.com/en/history/ferdina...
They are already moving to electric. https://www.porsche-holding.com/en/history/ferdina...
What’s 150 years ago got to do with now.
Bet your daily hasn’t got a distributor, drum brakes or carburettor.
amgmcqueen said:
oyster said:
Most of the responses on here seem to be based around an irrational fear of change.
The arguments being used are quite bizarre. Listening to some of you, one would be forgiven for thinking everyone drives 100+ mile journeys every day. Everyone lives in rural areas. And no-one can make a journey in any vehicle other than one they entirely own.
I have no fear of change if it's for the better. Electric cars in their current form are a step backwards.The arguments being used are quite bizarre. Listening to some of you, one would be forgiven for thinking everyone drives 100+ mile journeys every day. Everyone lives in rural areas. And no-one can make a journey in any vehicle other than one they entirely own.
If electric cars were the same price as the equivalent ICE, able to fully charge up in under 5mins at any petrol station in the country whilst not damaging the battery and do 500+miles on a single charge, then I may consider buying one.
Until then the British government, green lobbies and car companies are just kidding themselves. Electric cars are selling at a loss in microscopic numbers. The head of BMW admitted it himself, people do not want them in their current guise. They are crap!
Imagine if we all used electric cars and someone came along with an ICE version claiming it was brilliant.
What? You have to go out of your way and stand in the cold for 5/10 minutes every few hundred miles just to fill up the energy store? You can't do it from home?
What? You want me to drive a car that throws more bad particles in the air?
Funkmachine7 said:
Logically the use og alcohol fuels solves the petrol problem, it's a closed carbon cycle.
CO2 --> crops ----> alcohol ---> car fuel ---> CO2 --> crops..
\
\ ------> feed waste ----> pigs ---> bacon --> fertilizer
Simple.
Simple in terms of carbon cycle, much more complex in terms of economics though as it pushes up food prices. CO2 --> crops ----> alcohol ---> car fuel ---> CO2 --> crops..
\
\ ------> feed waste ----> pigs ---> bacon --> fertilizer
Simple.
oyster said:
What? You have to go out of your way and stand in the cold for 5/10 minutes every few hundred miles just to fill up the energy store? You can't do it from home?
10 minutes? How big is your fuel tank? Anyway, it's not like everybody drives 100 miles a day so for most people it's once every week or two. I'm sure people would quickly adapt to a different way of doing things.
Perhaps an irony is that many vehicles spend most of their time going no where, and just sitting parked somewhere.
So on paper at least the way most vehicles are used, suits EV`s.
I like the idea of not having to go to a filling station for fuel, and just having to plug the vehicle in, when the vehicle is sitting on the drive outside the house (although this is not going to be possible for everyone), or on reaching a destination, being immediately able to plug the vehicle in, so that I have plenty of energy/range for the return trip.
At present driving an EV in this way is not possible, but it should not be an insurmountable problem to solve. But having the equivalent of filling stations for EV`s is a complete nonsense. the vehicles need to have access to a recharging system every where.
Even performance does not seem to be an issue, because many EVs are very quick, It is just there is a gap existent in what we want EV`s to do, and what they actually can do.
When that gap is bridged in some way, EVs should be no more popular or unpopular than current ICE vehicles.
The question marks have to be what happens when to an EV, when it gets older, as no one will want to buy a used EV, with little life left in its most important part the battery. Given the nature of materials used in the manufacture of EV batteries, does the Earth have enough raw materials to meet the demand that will arise once everyone has switched to EV`s?
So on paper at least the way most vehicles are used, suits EV`s.
I like the idea of not having to go to a filling station for fuel, and just having to plug the vehicle in, when the vehicle is sitting on the drive outside the house (although this is not going to be possible for everyone), or on reaching a destination, being immediately able to plug the vehicle in, so that I have plenty of energy/range for the return trip.
At present driving an EV in this way is not possible, but it should not be an insurmountable problem to solve. But having the equivalent of filling stations for EV`s is a complete nonsense. the vehicles need to have access to a recharging system every where.
Even performance does not seem to be an issue, because many EVs are very quick, It is just there is a gap existent in what we want EV`s to do, and what they actually can do.
When that gap is bridged in some way, EVs should be no more popular or unpopular than current ICE vehicles.
The question marks have to be what happens when to an EV, when it gets older, as no one will want to buy a used EV, with little life left in its most important part the battery. Given the nature of materials used in the manufacture of EV batteries, does the Earth have enough raw materials to meet the demand that will arise once everyone has switched to EV`s?
Nickgnome said:
The wider one looks at the capture the less intermittent it becomes.
The wider one looks at the capture the greater the transmission losses.Another issue is that I know a lot of dozy pillocks who don't pay any attention to the fuel gauge until they're desperately low- fortunately they can refuel in a few minutes. People like that might forget to charge their cars overnight & have insufficient charge for the following day. We all know such people & I'd expect frequent problems even after an acclimatisation period.
Edited by Agammemnon on Wednesday 5th February 15:23
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