New petrol and diesel vehicles sales ban in UK from 2035
Discussion
The question I would like to ask Michael Gove:
"Well Michael, lithium is fairly limitless in supply. Not so cobalt, the other element required for EV batteries, Most of the world's cobalt comes from the comparatively unstable Democratic Republic of the Congo. Will you be dispatching a team of 'Wild Geese' to mount a coup and instal a Western-friendly government who will ensure that cobalt embargos don't bring the UK's EV industry to a shuddering halt., Perhaps you and Boris should read this https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/201...
"Well Michael, lithium is fairly limitless in supply. Not so cobalt, the other element required for EV batteries, Most of the world's cobalt comes from the comparatively unstable Democratic Republic of the Congo. Will you be dispatching a team of 'Wild Geese' to mount a coup and instal a Western-friendly government who will ensure that cobalt embargos don't bring the UK's EV industry to a shuddering halt., Perhaps you and Boris should read this https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/201...
John Locke said:
SeeFive said:
Attenborough wil be dead long before petrol and diesel cars are.Does this proposed ban extend to hybrids ?
I'm yet to see an EV that can be fully charged in 2 mins and provide 400 miles of range like a petrol.
Additionally, where is all this electricity going to come from ? The national grid is already struggling.
Unless battery tech improves massively over the next 15 years it is never going to hapoen
I'm yet to see an EV that can be fully charged in 2 mins and provide 400 miles of range like a petrol.
Additionally, where is all this electricity going to come from ? The national grid is already struggling.
Unless battery tech improves massively over the next 15 years it is never going to hapoen
55palfers said:
Providing the rest the the world all do the same and ban petrol & diesel.
That should at least be the starting point. The UK`s contribution to global greenhouse gases is microscopic compared to some. So it wont make much difference if the ban on petrol/ diesel vehicles is brought in unilaterally, until this policy is brought in and applied globally. Not sure that will happen though, so whether the ban is applied here or not it wont make much difference to global climate change either way.Nickgnome said:
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Even if we could generate the power required would the existing grid have the capacity for it?
This has been done to death so many times in numerous threads. If you interested best have a look in those.According to the generators yes we have.
Red 4 said:
Does this proposed ban extend to hybrids ?
I'm yet to see an EV that can be fully charged in 2 mins and provide 400 miles of range like a petrol.
Additionally, where is all this electricity going to come from ? The national grid is already struggling.
Unless battery tech improves massively over the next 15 years it is never going to hapoen
In addition to the five yer pull forward the measure now apparently includes hybrids as well as 100% ICE.I'm yet to see an EV that can be fully charged in 2 mins and provide 400 miles of range like a petrol.
Additionally, where is all this electricity going to come from ? The national grid is already struggling.
Unless battery tech improves massively over the next 15 years it is never going to hapoen
But buried in the small print is the fact that this proposal is exactly that, a proposal and subject to consultation.
The auto industry is significantly committed to hybrid using ever more efficient ICE alongside battery power. Over the coming months the manufacturer are going to be increasingly vocal on this issue.
Expect heavy lobbying and involvement in the process fro the global OEMS.
The timing is a little more than coincidental given that on a another battlefield he's dealing with the EU trade negotiations and we all know their auto industry sees the UK as a major market and most of them are a long way off full mix BEV and heavily invested in HEV/PHEV.
It's also bloody clumsy timing given the largest UK manufacturer is a) in a a bit of a pickle right now and b) similarly a one way from full BEV.
There are so many compelling reasons as to why HEV/PHEV is the medium term solution over full adoption of BEV.
I think/hope this blanket 2035 switch off isn't going to happen.
Roofless Toothless said:
I've got a Toyota hybrid and I think it's a really clever piece of kit. Suits me down to the ground (speaking as an old boy). An easy 70 to 80 mpg on short trips around town, and last summer I got from Essex to the New Forest on two gallons of petrol. I can't understand why they have lumped hybrids in with petrol/diesel at this stage. I would have thought they were a good compromise in the transition period to something that will have to come eventually.
Tell me, do all-electric cars harvest energy as they go along like hybrids do? Or are they strictly charge-up and run-down machines? I love the way that kinetic energy is saved by my hybrid. Something for nothing and no carbon generation at all.
Also, it seems this idea has been dreamed up by people who live in leafy suburbs where houses all have drives, and charging points can be easily installed. The problems in streets with terraced houses, and a nightly scramble for parking, seem insurmountable. I can imagine local kids having loads of fun going down the street unplugging all the cars just for laughs.
Yes, BEVs do, almost without exception recover kinetic energy. Most are very good at doing it and allow control to have the most efficient levels of regeneration at all times, (which isn’t always maximum regen) if the driver bothers to manage things. Tell me, do all-electric cars harvest energy as they go along like hybrids do? Or are they strictly charge-up and run-down machines? I love the way that kinetic energy is saved by my hybrid. Something for nothing and no carbon generation at all.
Also, it seems this idea has been dreamed up by people who live in leafy suburbs where houses all have drives, and charging points can be easily installed. The problems in streets with terraced houses, and a nightly scramble for parking, seem insurmountable. I can imagine local kids having loads of fun going down the street unplugging all the cars just for laughs.
Coolbananas said:
Crackie said:
robinessex said:
Coolbananas said:
Excellent news, of course and I wish Boris all the very best in delivering that - I only hope similar happens where I live too.
The whingers who refuse to adapt can moan all they like - it is happening and they will be forced to comply. The car-ownership model, shared-use and public transport etc, it is all changing. Those who cannot solve any infrastructure issues to support their own car will have to use shared, Uber-type solutions or public transport. All good. Adapt or stay home
You're in the wrong forum, please go awayThe whingers who refuse to adapt can moan all they like - it is happening and they will be forced to comply. The car-ownership model, shared-use and public transport etc, it is all changing. Those who cannot solve any infrastructure issues to support their own car will have to use shared, Uber-type solutions or public transport. All good. Adapt or stay home
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I loved my gas-guzzlers and the like. I make no excuses for owning them when I did nor the pleasure I got from driving them. Why would I have a guilty conscience? I'm quite happy to make the shift from petrol/diesel to hybrid and then full EV in the timelines set out. I think it is fair. The time has come, I do believe that. Hell, give me a Porsche 992 now and I'll happily drive it.
I'm no sodding evangelist for going green but I accept why we should and will comply along with everyone else to the timelines set out. I won't spend my own money on a non-hybrid or EV now already as I'm comfortable with adapting to saying good bye to ICE - it was inevitable eventually so now is as good a time as another. Get it done.
I support the reasoning behind the change, I completely disagree with those who do not believe ICE has to go for various reasons, I think their defence is wrong and desperate and welcome the future motoring has in store for us. It isn't the end of enthusiastic driving, it isn't the end of having fun driving. I drive a hybrid now and I'm waiting for an MX-5/Boxster/Alpine type EV as my next fun car. The hybrid will make way for an EV next too - well before 2030.
I have zero issue with people making the most of what they can get now, but I do think they should be accepting that they are saying good bye to ICE generally if they are of an age whereby they will still be driving come 2030/40 and onwards. Instead of being in denial.
The tech and the Governmental will to get to where we are now was a slow burner but it is heading in a direction that isn't going to be stopped now for the reasons we all know and love or hate. It is fine to disagree and come up with arguments you convince yourself debunk the reasoning you oppose but it means nothing - vote Boris out if you don't like his enthusiasm for a cleaner UK and hope Labour feel differently but first you'll need to stop all the major car manufacturers from winding down ICE production because come 2030/35 you will find even if you were permitted to buy them, they'd be rarer and more expensive that the alternatives and this would worsen with time. Existing ICE infrastructure will decrease in favour of shifting to the cars manufacturers are then making so it'll be an all-round expensive pain and hassle to keep an ICE vehicle on the road as the years go by.
Adapt. It really isn't going to be anywhere near as bad as the doom-mongers think it will be. Ok, for those who like to tinker on engines, that might be a future issue but that's a very long way off and future generations will largely be unable to afford to run an historic ICE vehicle so won't be bothering with it anyway.
What's with the plural name??
paulrockliffe said:
20 years ago I worked at Sellafield. There was a desperate need to build new nuclear power then, none has been built and Gordon Brown sold all the tech we had to do it (Westinghouse) for a pittance.
The idea that we can continue to close coal and gas and scale up EV use in 15 years without new nuclear is utterly ridiculous. The idea that we can build new nuclear within that time-frame is even more ridiculous.
The idea we can make a decision and get agreement to build nuclear within that timeframe is even more ridiculous.The idea that we can continue to close coal and gas and scale up EV use in 15 years without new nuclear is utterly ridiculous. The idea that we can build new nuclear within that time-frame is even more ridiculous.
At first people walked to wherever they wanted to go.
Then someone found out that by jumping onto an animal, or hitching it to a vehicle of some kind, they could go further and faster, and carry more of their stuff.
Next people found that by harnessing the power of steam, they could go much further and much faster, and carry even more stuff around the country.
Then people invented the motor vehicle, which could get them about the country on long or short journey`s even faster and more comfortably and conveniently, and in many cases faster. and cheaper than anything that had gone before, so people switched to driving cars in their millions.
When a form of transport has been invented and produced, that the mass of public will want to switch to, they will indeed switch to it in their millions.
To date NO such form of transport has yet been invented and introduced. EV`s are the future, but as they `currently `sit'. they are NOT a substitute for what the public has available at present. This may come with time, but it will require a massive change in infrastructure to make it possible.
Too many people look at EV`s the same way that we currently look at ICE vehicles, and think in terms of having `filling stations' to enable them to be recharged. This is a useless idea, because such stations will be choked with thousands of vehicles trying to get a recharge so that they can carry on with their journeys.
The charging of EV`s must be spread out as widely as possible, and not concentrated on the type of stations we currently use for ICE vehicles.
Only when a re charging infrastructure which is built into all the roads, or least the major / most used roads is introduced, so that driver don't have mass around fixed cj charging points like wasps around a honey pot, waiting for a re charge, is introduced will EV`s truly be the equivalent of the current crop of the ICE vehicles we have at present. This position may well come, but much as I like the idea of having an EV, it most definitely is not the case at the present, nor for the foreseeable future.
Then someone found out that by jumping onto an animal, or hitching it to a vehicle of some kind, they could go further and faster, and carry more of their stuff.
Next people found that by harnessing the power of steam, they could go much further and much faster, and carry even more stuff around the country.
Then people invented the motor vehicle, which could get them about the country on long or short journey`s even faster and more comfortably and conveniently, and in many cases faster. and cheaper than anything that had gone before, so people switched to driving cars in their millions.
When a form of transport has been invented and produced, that the mass of public will want to switch to, they will indeed switch to it in their millions.
To date NO such form of transport has yet been invented and introduced. EV`s are the future, but as they `currently `sit'. they are NOT a substitute for what the public has available at present. This may come with time, but it will require a massive change in infrastructure to make it possible.
Too many people look at EV`s the same way that we currently look at ICE vehicles, and think in terms of having `filling stations' to enable them to be recharged. This is a useless idea, because such stations will be choked with thousands of vehicles trying to get a recharge so that they can carry on with their journeys.
The charging of EV`s must be spread out as widely as possible, and not concentrated on the type of stations we currently use for ICE vehicles.
Only when a re charging infrastructure which is built into all the roads, or least the major / most used roads is introduced, so that driver don't have mass around fixed cj charging points like wasps around a honey pot, waiting for a re charge, is introduced will EV`s truly be the equivalent of the current crop of the ICE vehicles we have at present. This position may well come, but much as I like the idea of having an EV, it most definitely is not the case at the present, nor for the foreseeable future.
Pan Pan Pan said:
The charging of EV`s must be spread out as widely as possible, and not concentrated on the type of stations we currently use for ICE vehicles.
Only when a re charging infrastructure which is built into all the roads, or least the major / most used roads is introduced, so that driver don't have mass around fixed cj charging points like wasps around a honey pot, waiting for a re charge, is introduced will EV`s truly be the equivalent of the current crop of the ICE vehicles we have at present. This position may well come, but much as I like the idea of having an EV, it most definitely is not the case at the present, nor for the foreseeable future.
I've tried to explain this to an EVangelistic Tesla-owning friend - the "You can pop for a cup of coffee while it's charging" argument is only valid if you can actually leave your EV plugged in and charging.Only when a re charging infrastructure which is built into all the roads, or least the major / most used roads is introduced, so that driver don't have mass around fixed cj charging points like wasps around a honey pot, waiting for a re charge, is introduced will EV`s truly be the equivalent of the current crop of the ICE vehicles we have at present. This position may well come, but much as I like the idea of having an EV, it most definitely is not the case at the present, nor for the foreseeable future.
The more EVs we see, the more congestion around charging points will occur. Unless charging takes no longer than filling a tank with fossil fuel or we find a way of charging on the move, we'll end up having to pave over vast areas near service stations just for EV charging, which sort of defeats the point of EVs in the first place.
Most of the responses on here seem to be based around an irrational fear of change.
The arguments being used are quite bizarre. Listening to some of you, one would be forgiven for thinking everyone drives 100+ mile journeys every day. Everyone lives in rural areas. And no-one can make a journey in any vehicle other than one they entirely own.
The arguments being used are quite bizarre. Listening to some of you, one would be forgiven for thinking everyone drives 100+ mile journeys every day. Everyone lives in rural areas. And no-one can make a journey in any vehicle other than one they entirely own.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff