Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 9

[Alpacaman]

Edinburger said:

Alpacaman said:

Edinburger said:

I’ll reply to this little lot later.

Why bother? You have made your position clear - it is entirely due to the SNP that the bridge was built, but nothing to do with them that it wasn't built to cope with typical Scottish weather or built with three lanes, or even with British steel. Does that about sum it up?

You can roll your eyes all you like, but it's a reasonable description of your position.

The problem with you is simple: anything negative happens = SNP had nothing to do with it. So disasters with ferries, hospitals, education, bridges? No nothing to do with the SNP. The rest of us are waiting for them to put the needs of Scotland ahead of their desire for independence, especially an independence that seems to involve being an insignificant part of the European superstate.

[Pastor Of Muppets]

Alpacaman said:

Edinburger said:

Alpacaman said:

Edinburger said:

I’ll reply to this little lot later.

Why bother? You have made your position clear - it is entirely due to the SNP that the bridge was built, but nothing to do with them that it wasn't built to cope with typical Scottish weather or built with three lanes, or even with British steel. Does that about sum it up?

You can roll your eyes all you like, but it's a reasonable description of your position.

The problem with you is simple: anything negative happens = SNP had nothing to do with it. So disasters with ferries, hospitals, education, bridges? No nothing to do with the SNP. The rest of us are waiting for them to put the needs of Scotland ahead of their desire for independence, especially an independence that seems to involve being an insignificant part of the European superstate.

A quality retort if ever I saw.

[technodup]

Edinburger said:

The problem with you lot is simple: anything negative happens = SNP bad.

That's kind of the whole thing about being in charge. When st goes wrong you get the blame.

If you want the credit when stuff goes well [stop sniggering] you take the flak when it doesn't.

[Edinburger]

Alpacaman said:

Edinburger said:

Alpacaman said:

Edinburger said:

I’ll reply to this little lot later.

Why bother? You have made your position clear - it is entirely due to the SNP that the bridge was built, but nothing to do with them that it wasn't built to cope with typical Scottish weather or built with three lanes, or even with British steel. Does that about sum it up?

You can roll your eyes all you like, but it's a reasonable description of your position.

The problem with you is simple: anything negative happens = SNP had nothing to do with it. So disasters with ferries, hospitals, education, bridges? No nothing to do with the SNP. The rest of us are waiting for them to put the needs of Scotland ahead of their desire for independence, especially an independence that seems to involve being an insignificant part of the European superstate.

I don't think that's entirely true at all.

Are the Conservative Government being blamed for bridges closing in England? If not, why not?

[Edinburger]

Pastor Of Muppets said:

Alpacaman said:

Edinburger said:

Alpacaman said:

Edinburger said:

I’ll reply to this little lot later.

Why bother? You have made your position clear - it is entirely due to the SNP that the bridge was built, but nothing to do with them that it wasn't built to cope with typical Scottish weather or built with three lanes, or even with British steel. Does that about sum it up?

You can roll your eyes all you like, but it's a reasonable description of your position.

The problem with you is simple: anything negative happens = SNP had nothing to do with it. So disasters with ferries, hospitals, education, bridges? No nothing to do with the SNP. The rest of us are waiting for them to put the needs of Scotland ahead of their desire for independence, especially an independence that seems to involve being an insignificant part of the European superstate.

A quality retort if ever I saw.

Predictable.

[Edinburger]

technodup said:

Edinburger said:

The problem with you lot is simple: anything negative happens = SNP bad.

That's kind of the whole thing about being in charge. When st goes wrong you get the blame.

If you want the credit when stuff goes well [stop sniggering] you take the flak when it doesn't.

Really?

I don't see this behaviour aimed at the Westminster Government?

Are the Conservatives being blamed for bridges closing in England?

[Evercross]

Edinburger said:

Predictable.

Indeed you are when you have no constructive reply. Flippant retorts become the default position.

Edinburger said:

Are the Conservatives being blamed for bridges closing in England?

Which of those bridges were built recently and specifically with a design meant to avoid closure?

Edited by Evercross on Wednesday 12th February 17:54

[Alpacaman]

Edinburger said:

Alpacaman said:

Edinburger said:

Alpacaman said:

Edinburger said:

I’ll reply to this little lot later.

Why bother? You have made your position clear - it is entirely due to the SNP that the bridge was built, but nothing to do with them that it wasn't built to cope with typical Scottish weather or built with three lanes, or even with British steel. Does that about sum it up?

You can roll your eyes all you like, but it's a reasonable description of your position.

The problem with you is simple: anything negative happens = SNP had nothing to do with it. So disasters with ferries, hospitals, education, bridges? No nothing to do with the SNP. The rest of us are waiting for them to put the needs of Scotland ahead of their desire for independence, especially an independence that seems to involve being an insignificant part of the European superstate.

I don't think that's entirely true at all.

Are the Conservative Government being blamed for bridges closing in England? If not, why not?

Have any of us come on here claiming that a particular bridge was only built due to the Conservatives? That's my point about your position, you claim it was entirely due to the SNP that it was built, therefore you have to accept if there are problems with the design that is their responsibility. That's the point of being in charge, they are quick enough to blame the Tories, but suddenly when it's things that are entirely their responsibility it's "nothing to see here"

[Edinburger]

Alpacaman said:

Edinburger said:

Alpacaman said:

Edinburger said:

Alpacaman said:

Edinburger said:

I’ll reply to this little lot later.

Why bother? You have made your position clear - it is entirely due to the SNP that the bridge was built, but nothing to do with them that it wasn't built to cope with typical Scottish weather or built with three lanes, or even with British steel. Does that about sum it up?

You can roll your eyes all you like, but it's a reasonable description of your position.

The problem with you is simple: anything negative happens = SNP had nothing to do with it. So disasters with ferries, hospitals, education, bridges? No nothing to do with the SNP. The rest of us are waiting for them to put the needs of Scotland ahead of their desire for independence, especially an independence that seems to involve being an insignificant part of the European superstate.

I don't think that's entirely true at all.

Are the Conservative Government being blamed for bridges closing in England? If not, why not?

Have any of us come on here claiming that a particular bridge was only built due to the Conservatives? That's my point about your position, you claim it was entirely due to the SNP that it was built, therefore you have to accept if there are problems with the design that is their responsibility. That's the point of being in charge, they are quick enough to blame the Tories, but suddenly when it's things that are entirely their responsibility it's "nothing to see here"

The SNP pushed for the bridge to be built. They organised the funding, planning permission, etc.

They then, presumably, left the design and the building and the project management to the teams of subject matter experts. Sturgeon or Salmond were probably pictured with a spade making the first dig into the grind but you know that’s for the cameras and they didn’t actually stay and build the bridge themselves, right?

[technodup]

Edinburger said:

The SNP pushed for the bridge to be built. They organised the funding, planning permission, etc.

They then, presumably, left the design and the building and the project management to the teams of subject matter experts. Sturgeon or Salmond were probably pictured with a spade making the first dig into the grind but you know that’s for the cameras and they didn’t actually stay and build the bridge themselves, right?

When someone working for me fks up, it's me that's got to sort it out because I'm ultimately responsible. It's why in days past a minister would resign when something on his watch went wrong. You can't take the credit and not the blame. So did they build the bridge or not?

The answer's yes btw. So they're to blame when it goes wrong.

[Alpacaman]

Edinburger said:

The SNP pushed for the bridge to be built. They organised the funding, planning permission, etc.

They then, presumably, left the design and the building and the project management to the teams of subject matter experts. Sturgeon or Salmond were probably pictured with a spade making the first dig into the grind but you know that’s for the cameras and they didn’t actually stay and build the bridge themselves, right?

So they can take the glory if it goes well, but when it all goes tits up it's the engineers fault?

[Evercross]

Edinburger said:

The SNP pushed for the bridge to be built. They organised the funding, planning permission, etc.

They then, presumably, left the design and the building and the project management to the teams of subject matter experts. Sturgeon or Salmond were probably pictured with a spade making the first dig into the grind but you know that’s for the cameras and they didn’t actually stay and build the bridge themselves, right?

Nice deflection 'burger. The politicians were the ones writing the cheques on behalf of the populace, so if they handed the money over to the 'teams of subject matter experts', they carry the can for the failures. That is how it works in a representative democracy!

[nikaiyo2]

Edinburger said:

nikaiyo2 said:

Edinburger said:

That’s 21st Century Britain.

Just look at the arguing over the proposed Sherrifhall flyover.

No it is 21st Century Scotland, quite specifically and relevant to this thread, it was not a British matter, it was Scottish.

You know the Scottish SNP who would do things so differently to Westminster.
Well I suppose they did have to build something in the sure and certain knowledge that it was not fit for purpose just to appease their political cronies.

Seriously? Do you think it was the SNP who designed and built the Queensferry Crossing?

You do know some bridges in England were closed yesterday too? Presumably that's the SNP's fault too?

I am sure you misread what I wrote, I did not mention closure due to bad weather, of course this can happen all over the world.

You attempted to suggest that the bridge, being too narrow was due to 21st Century Britain. As in the British government was to blame for the short comings in the bridge design. This is not the case. The bridge was a Scottish government project. The bridge is not an insight into British government incompetence it is an insight into the incompetence of the Scottish government. Perhaps an insight to how much better things will be post independence.

[wobert]

Edinburger said:

Alpacaman said:

Edinburger said:

Alpacaman said:

Edinburger said:

Alpacaman said:

Edinburger said:

I’ll reply to this little lot later.

Why bother? You have made your position clear - it is entirely due to the SNP that the bridge was built, but nothing to do with them that it wasn't built to cope with typical Scottish weather or built with three lanes, or even with British steel. Does that about sum it up?

You can roll your eyes all you like, but it's a reasonable description of your position.

The problem with you is simple: anything negative happens = SNP had nothing to do with it. So disasters with ferries, hospitals, education, bridges? No nothing to do with the SNP. The rest of us are waiting for them to put the needs of Scotland ahead of their desire for independence, especially an independence that seems to involve being an insignificant part of the European superstate.

I don't think that's entirely true at all.

Are the Conservative Government being blamed for bridges closing in England? If not, why not?

Have any of us come on here claiming that a particular bridge was only built due to the Conservatives? That's my point about your position, you claim it was entirely due to the SNP that it was built, therefore you have to accept if there are problems with the design that is their responsibility. That's the point of being in charge, they are quick enough to blame the Tories, but suddenly when it's things that are entirely their responsibility it's "nothing to see here"

The SNP pushed for the bridge to be built. They organised the funding, planning permission, etc.

They then, presumably, left the design and the building and the project management to the teams of subject matter experts.Sturgeon or Salmond were probably pictured with a spade making the first dig into the grind but you know that’s for the cameras and they didn’t actually stay and build the bridge themselves, right?

Re: the bit in bold, I may be wrong, but I’m pretty sure the SG as the paying client would have had a hand in drafting the specification requirements that the project was to deliver.

Ergo, the project management teams then look at the options open that meet the project spec and the budget available.

If the spec was wrong then where does the responsibility for that lie?

If they didn’t then they would have ended up with a bamboo bridge a la Bridge over the River Cock for £1bn....

[tim0409]

wobert said:

Re: the bit in bold, I may be wrong, but I’m pretty sure the SG as the paying client would have had a hand in drafting the specification requirements that the project was to deliver.

Transport Scotland would have been the agency which approved the design/capacity of the bridge - it was set up in 2006 and is an executive agency of the Scottish Government and accountable to Scottish Ministers; so in effect the design and capacity of the Queensferry Crossing is very much the responsibility of the SNP Government, which is why they were so keen to take the credit for it being under budget and “early”.

[hutchst]

Edinburger said:

Good twist on facts there, techno.

You lot said "ooh the bridge is shut = SNP bad"

My retort was simply that if it wasn't for the SNP there would be no Queensferry Crossing and the Forth Road Bridge would have been closed many, many more times than this first event of the QC closure (and many other bridges for the same reason).

The problem with you lot is simple: anything negative happens = SNP bad.

I would like to be officially offended by that spurious allegation.

It doesn't have to be negative.

[csd19]

tvrolet said:

deadslow said:

I'm sure the bridge was designed and built by some rich Tory contractor. Same as the hospitals.

But at least they chose Scottish steel, right?




oh, wait...

Now now, we did get a (non-) fking PANDA!!

The greens must have some serious st on the majority of the SNP if their interference in fking up things like the bridge is anything to judge by.

[Edinburger]

technodup said:

Edinburger said:

The SNP pushed for the bridge to be built. They organised the funding, planning permission, etc.

They then, presumably, left the design and the building and the project management to the teams of subject matter experts. Sturgeon or Salmond were probably pictured with a spade making the first dig into the grind but you know that’s for the cameras and they didn’t actually stay and build the bridge themselves, right?

When someone working for me fks up, it's me that's got to sort it out because I'm ultimately responsible. It's why in days past a minister would resign when something on his watch went wrong. You can't take the credit and not the blame. So did they build the bridge or not?

The answer's yes btw. So they're to blame when it goes wrong.

Seriously? What’s gone wrong? What’s so bad? A bridge closed for safety reasons for a day or two just as bridges and tunnels sometimes close all over the world.

Read this: https://www.newcivilengineer.com/archive/bridge-br...

[Edinburger]

Alpacaman said:

Edinburger said:

Alpacaman said:

Edinburger said:

I’ll reply to this little lot later.

Why bother? You have made your position clear - it is entirely due to the SNP that the bridge was built, but nothing to do with them that it wasn't built to cope with typical Scottish weather or built with three lanes, or even with British steel. Does that about sum it up?

You can roll your eyes all you like, but it's a reasonable description of your position.

The problem with you is simple: anything negative happens = SNP had nothing to do with it. So disasters with ferries, hospitals, education, bridges? No nothing to do with the SNP. The rest of us are waiting for them to put the needs of Scotland ahead of their desire for independence, especially an independence that seems to involve being an insignificant part of the European superstate.

That is absolutely not my position.

I get frustrated when I see people politicising events like we’ve seen over the last few days.

[Edinburger]

Evercross said:

Edinburger said:

Predictable.

Indeed you are when you have no constructive reply. Flippant retorts become the default position.

Edinburger said:

Are the Conservatives being blamed for bridges closing in England?

Which of those bridges were built recently and specifically with a design meant to avoid closure?

Edited by Evercross on Wednesday 12th February 17:54

Which bridge or tunnel will never close?

The QC has been open on many days when the FRB would have been closed.