Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 9

[technodup]

sambucket said:

It's possible to have more than one goal? It's possible even to have conflicting goals. If SNP win 72 seats vs the tories 20 next year, and represent such a large portion of society, this will become even more true?

They don't represent anything like the sort of portion you're suggesting. They represent usually around 40something percent.

They benefit from the system. They naturally don't approve when anyone else benefits from the system, but when they do they like to use it as some sort of proof they represent 'Scotland'. Chameleon charlatan s.

[biggbn]

Evercross said:

sambucket said:

It’s not clear if SNP is limited to any ‘type’ any more. They’ve crossed the aisles?

A new strand to the narrative - another groundless soundbite being repeated until it becomes ingrained as a truth. In a week or two it will be self-referentially quoted but without the question mark, no doubt.

There is no evidence for it of course, just the results of three deliberately timed opinion polls that asked a different question but are being extrapolated to mean just about anything right now.

sambucket said:

a hack piece designed to titillate the cockles of a 'certain type'

Your words sam, and they reveal your true colours. Us and them, two tribes, yoons and snats, and all that. You talk about crossing aisles and then reveal why it could never happen. Nationalists are racists (call it what it is) and can never accept 'certain types' into their fold.

Roderick Spode said:

Just like they did in the 2019 election, when they played on the EU factor by proclaiming they could 'Stop Brexit'. Expect their (perceived) pandemic response to be heavily played up in the campaigning for Holyrood 2021.

Its the one thing the nationalist acolytes never allude to - that the SNP always poll at their best when they are talking about anything but independence.

As Nicola said - 'a vote for the SNP is not a vote for independence'. If she really means that then she should put it on the ballot papers and in the next manifesto.

Edited by Evercross on Monday 6th July 15:31

One correction. Some nationalists are racist, there is surely evidence of that. I might even have let 'most' slide, although i am still to see evidence of that . But not all.

[anonymous-user]

Some 'people' are racists.

Not all SNP voters are nationalists in any case. Increasingly. As much as that fact annoys E. He has dodged a request for evidence to contrary.

I don't have much time for the idea, that the average SNP member is more racist than the average scottish Tory. Not in my (limited) personal experience, anyhow. Which is the only experience I have on the topic.

If a pro union tory flips and votes SNP for reasons other than Independence, is he/she a racist?

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 6th July 18:27

[biggbn]

sambucket said:

Some 'people' are racists.

Not all SNP voters are nationalists in any case. Increasingly. As much as that fact annoys E. He has dodged a request for evidence to contrary.

I don't have much time for the idea, that the average SNP member is more racist than the average scottish Tory. Not in my (limited) personal experience, anyhow. Which is the only experience I have on the topic.

If a pro union tory flips and votes SNP for reasons other than Independence, is he/she a racist?

Edited by sambucket on Monday 6th July 18:27

This was the point I was making Sam. I am not a fan of SNP but I am pro independence and I am definitely not a racist. Many on here unfortunately have experienced anti English rhetoric which I find both surprising (as I have never witnessed it, but am not naive enough to think that precludes its existence), and shocking. Such behaviour is the very opposite of the inclusive society I would like us all to share.

[Troubleatmill]

My ex wife was English.

After a wedding on the coach back to civilisation - most of the coach took great pleasure in drunken chants of "fk the English"

You really kind of learn who your friends are in situations such as this.

I am not especially proud of my countrymen.

[Evercross]

sambucket said:

Not all SNP voters are nationalists in any case.

That as maybe, but only because they are being conned by the thin lips of Nippy Nicky. As I said - read their constitution. First page, first paragraph.

sambucket said:

As much as that fact annoys E. He has dodged a request for evidence to contrary.

Says the person who dodged the direct question about the dishonesty of presenting conflicting goals to a disparate electorate, while ironically trying to direct us all down the rabbit hole of disparate electorate supporting the SNP.

PS. I deliberately used the capital N when calling Nationalists racist. The Scottish National Party had fomented racism and channels it in its quest for power. The recent 'border' spat proves that.

Edited by Evercross on Monday 6th July 20:53

[Roderick Spode]

Troubleatmill said:

My ex wife was English.

After a wedding on the coach back to civilisation - most of the coach took great pleasure in drunken chants of "fk the English"

You really kind of learn who your friends are in situations such as this.

I am not especially proud of my countrymen.

My wife is English. She has been on the receiving end of some fairly grim anglophobia, especially since the 'joyous and civic' campaign in 2012 and onwards. Plenty of invites from the braindeads to "f**k aff back tae England" and such jolly repartee. Thankfully she can give as good as she gets, but if the National Socialists ever achieve their pipe dream of creating a Brigadoon caliphate, you wouldn't see our arses for dust. Ironically it's people like us the SNP need to attract from elsewhere for their failed vision of paradise.

[Troubleatmill]

Well, some pruning has been happening since I was prepping dinner.

Self directed or have the Mods slapped a few wrists?

[technodup]

7 days ago Sturgeon refuses to rule out forcing English visitors to quarantine, highlights issue of 'border'.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/29/stur...

3 days ago fuelled by the above some SNP fkwits decide to man said border in a racist protest against English visitors
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/health/coro...

1 day ago Sturgeon flip flops to disown fkwits
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/nicola...

She caused the thing, nice to see her throw her patsys under the bus. "Wisnae me". Whilst not throwing them so far she'll revoke their SNP memberships obvs. And naturally no journalist appears to have had the baws to ask her if the timing of the protest maybe had anything to do with her border talk pish.

Isn't SNPland wonderful?

[hutchst]

Evercross said:

Says the person who dodged the direct question about the dishonesty of presenting conflicting goals to a disparate electorate, while ironically trying to direct us all down the rabbit hole of disparate electorate supporting the SNP.

PS. I deliberately used the capital N when calling Nationalists racist. The Scottish National Party had fomented racism and channels it in its quest for power. The recent 'border' spat proves that.

Edited by Evercross on Monday 6th July 20:53

Never mind about all that nonsense. Have you heard about Scotland's new space rockets?

They're going to Mars apparently.

[biggbn]

Evercross said:

sambucket said:

Not all SNP voters are nationalists in any case.

That as maybe, but only because they are being conned by the thin lips of Nippy Nicky. As I said - read their constitution. First page, first paragraph.

sambucket said:

As much as that fact annoys E. He has dodged a request for evidence to contrary.

Says the person who dodged the direct question about the dishonesty of presenting conflicting goals to a disparate electorate, while ironically trying to direct us all down the rabbit hole of disparate electorate supporting the SNP.

PS. I deliberately used the capital N when calling Nationalists racist. The Scottish National Party had fomented racism and channels it in its quest for power. The recent 'border' spat proves that.

Edited by Evercross on Monday 6th July 20:53

Apologies, I missed the subtlety of the capitalised Nationalists but I still think you are off the mark. I know members and supporters of the SNP who are not anti English although they are anti Union. To boldly claim all Nationalists are racist is off the mark in my lived experience.

[Welshbeef]

sambucket said:

If they hold your belief that FM would never take a referendum, and they approve of the governance otherwise, why not?

Where are the votes going if not to SNP?



Pandemic caveats already discussed, apply.

Because the Scottish NATIONALIST Party is an Independance party that is their whole purpose of being.
They may say oh we will never will but they cannot guarantee that.

[anonymous-user]

Welshbeef said:

Because the Scottish NATIONALIST Party is an Independance party that is their whole purpose of being.
They may say oh we will never will but they cannot guarantee that.

I just don't believe this. I know loads of intelligent people including professional economists, bankers etc who vote SNP who don't want independence.

Another purpose is to provide governance to Scotland ?

[Jasey_]

Troubleatmill said:

Well, some pruning has been happening since I was prepping dinner.

Self directed or have the Mods slapped a few wrists?

Yeah - I noticed that too.

I assumed it was self moderating - the mods usually leave the post with a comment saying it was removed.

I think most people on this thread are trying to put their point across without just being antagonistic .

[Troubleatmill]

sambucket said:

.......

Another purpose is to provide governance to Scotland ?

Some would be nice.

[Ecosseven]

sambucket said:

Welshbeef said:

Because the Scottish NATIONALIST Party is an Independance party that is their whole purpose of being.
They may say oh we will never will but they cannot guarantee that.

I just don't believe this. I know loads of intelligent people including professional economists, bankers etc who vote SNP who don't want independence.

Another purpose is to provide governance to Scotland ?

You may well be correct, but I find it hard to believe that anyone who votes SNP does not realise that the party will use their vote as a means to further their goal of another referendum and ultimately independence. As another poster noted it's their number one priority. How many times has NS stated they have a mandate on the back of strong election results.

[biggbn]

sambucket said:

Welshbeef said:

Because the Scottish NATIONALIST Party is an Independance party that is their whole purpose of being.
They may say oh we will never will but they cannot guarantee that.

I just don't believe this. I know loads of intelligent people including professional economists, bankers etc who vote SNP who don't want independence.

Another purpose is to provide governance to Scotland ?

What are the options for the Scottish voter. Scotland is historically a left leaning country. Vote Tory? Not likely, but not impossible. Ruth Davidson did a wonderful job of propping up May's shambolic administration with the in roads she made, but the Scottish tories now? Not happening. Scottish Labour? An absolute shambles. Lib dem? A no for the same reasons they are down south. Apart from minority parties and independents that leaves...the SNP. Now, given that most Scots I know believe that an indyref won't happen or if it did will fail again, the cross goes in the SNP box....

[anonymous-user]

Ecosseven said:

You may well be correct, but I find it hard to believe that anyone who votes SNP does not realise that the party will use their vote as a means to further their goal of another referendum and ultimately independence. As another poster noted it's their number one priority. How many times has NS stated they have a mandate on the back of strong election results.

Number 1 goal does not equal only goal.

There is a difference between 'I want independence asap', and 'not personally inclined, but content with independence if that is what a clear majority desire'.

[Jasey_]

Ecosseven said:

sambucket said:

Welshbeef said:

Because the Scottish NATIONALIST Party is an Independance party that is their whole purpose of being.
They may say oh we will never will but they cannot guarantee that.

I just don't believe this. I know loads of intelligent people including professional economists, bankers etc who vote SNP who don't want independence.

Another purpose is to provide governance to Scotland ?

You may well be correct, but I find it hard to believe that anyone who votes SNP does not realise that the party will use their vote as a means to further their goal of another referendum and ultimately independence. As another poster noted it's their number one priority. How many times has NS stated they have a mandate on the back of strong election results.

The SNP have done a great job in positioning the debate in Scotland to be SNP v Conservatives (helped significantly by the Labour party in Scotland being full of complete dodgers).

The Conservative party are doing a pretty good job at shooting themselves in the foot.

If the SNP really want to get Independence they need to start concentrating on the economy - this is probably the only thing preventing Independence.

[A.J.M]

sambucket said:

Another purpose is to provide governance to Scotland ?

Didn’t realise that running our Police, NHS, education system into the ground counted as governance.

5 years ago she wanted to be judged on her education performance.
Can you, Sam, look up where we are in performance tables, what expects in Scotland are saying about the state of the system and then say.

Yes she’s done a superb job over the last 5 years.
Or, hang on, actually she’s not.