Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 9

[amusingduck]

How long would the Toarees get away with not taking minutes at meetings subject to FOI?

[Roderick Spode]

amusingduck said:

How long would the Toarees get away with not taking minutes at meetings subject to FOI?

According to Fergus Ewing, neither side involved 'felt the need' to take minutes.

I, on behalf of my company, hold regulatory meetings with the national regulator in our industry. If I didn't take and release minutes as part of my role, I'd be 'released' in about a week. However, it seems working for the Scottish government makes one exempt from minute taking. It's hilarious, and even more so when the media are almost universally silent on such matters.

Once upon a time Ms Sturgeon claimed that she 'welcomed uncomfortable scrutiny'. That is of course, until someone tried to scrutinise. Then the shredders at Bute House went into overdrive.

[Edinburger]

Roderick Spode said:

Edinburger said:

Roderick Spode said:

Edinburger said:

Yet the polls disagree with your comment in bold.

A recent poll from Ipsos MORI found that the Scottish public rate the First Minister’s and the Scottish Government’s handling of the coronavirus crisis much more highly than Boris Johnson’s or the UK Government’s: 78% of Scots think the Scottish Government has handled the crisis well so far, compared with 34% who say the same of the UK Government.

One poll does not make them a competent party of government. My comment stands.

One subjective comment does not make them an incompetent party of government.

You're quite right. Their incredulous record in administration does that for them.

That's subjective.

[Edinburger]

A.J.M said:

Edinburger said:

One subjective comment does not make them an incompetent party of government.

How about 13 years of education standards falling.
13 years of NHS failures.
13 years of council cuts.
13 years of police mismanagement.

And that’s before we get to the never resolved issue of what fking currency are they proposing we use in this magical land of milk and honey.

6 years after the vote and they still can’t/won’t answer it.


How did a country, once famed worldwide for its standards of education, intellect and not take bullst for an answer, fall for such a shower of scum that have ran us into the ground while claiming everything is amazing.

I'd argue more standards than just those have fallen under the SNP Government and I'd also say many standards have risen. But we don't cover positive points on this thread.

[Edinburger]

technodup said:

Edinburger said:

Yet the polls disagree with your comment in bold.

A recent poll from Ipsos MORI found that the Scottish public rate the First Minister’s and the Scottish Government’s handling of the coronavirus crisis much more highly than Boris Johnson’s or the UK Government’s: 78% of Scots think the Scottish Government has handled the crisis well so far, compared with 34% who say the same of the UK Government.

All that poll actually found was around a thousand people who didn't have the savvy to ask why they were being compared as equals.

The Scottish 'government' is no such thing. She's handled the crisis 'well' simply because she's taken over the telly for the last three months and told everyone what to think. The public clearly equate 'doing something' or 'talking a lot' with success. The public are stupid though. And frankly so are people who use such an obviously opportunistic poll as evidence for anything.

Yet again, you have a strange view of the world around you.

[Edinburger]

Roderick Spode said:

technodup said:

Edinburger said:

Yet the polls disagree with your comment in bold.

A recent poll from Ipsos MORI found that the Scottish public rate the First Minister’s and the Scottish Government’s handling of the coronavirus crisis much more highly than Boris Johnson’s or the UK Government’s: 78% of Scots think the Scottish Government has handled the crisis well so far, compared with 34% who say the same of the UK Government.

All that poll actually found was around a thousand people who didn't have the savvy to ask why they were being compared as equals.

The Scottish 'government' is no such thing. She's handled the crisis 'well' simply because she's taken over the telly for the last three months and told everyone what to think. The public clearly equate 'doing something' or 'talking a lot' with success. The public are stupid though. And frankly so are people who use such an obviously opportunistic poll as evidence for anything.

The media have a responsibility in all this as well, they have constantly treated her with kid gloves & in general the Scottish media newshounds are entirely deferential to her during Q&A sessions. Also, one pre-approved question, then the mic switched off. No opportunity to respond. More careful stage management by the SNP's vast army of publicly funded spin doctors. Even if any slightly risqué questions do make their way through, Nipoleon turns the head wobble up to eleven & engages righteous indignation mode. It's so amusing and predictable. The SNP do a great job of selling this illusion of caring competence, and the media are complicit in publicising it. To take a step back and actually scrutinise their record on education, health, the economy, policies for business, infrastructure - it's all calamitous. And the faithful will point towards London and cry "England / Westminster / Toareess". It's pathetic.

At the FM's briefing, the questions aren't pre-approved or even pre-known. The Westminster briefing is the one with the pre-approved questions and pre-written answers which are clearly read out.

Another dig at "publicly funded spin doctors" - is the SG the only government to do so?

[ant1973]

https://commonweal.scot/library/the-demographics-o...

I probably overplayed my hand a little earlier by saying "generally"...

Basically a majority of ABC1s will not vote for the SNP\Indy. However, there is a sizeable minority who will (40% or so). That chimes with the anecdotes posted this morning leaving me, as ever, as the outlier...

However, I am nothing if not a democrat. If a majority are prepared to vote for it, provided I can live in rUK, so be it.

[biggbn]

amusingduck said:

How long would the Toarees get away with not taking minutes at meetings subject to FOI?

I do wonder how it would be recieved on this or any other forum if posters continually lampooned the many and various accents used south of the border, or God forbid, a Jamaican, Nigerian, Pakistani accent. Its rather pathetic and poor form, and this from someone who has little time for the SNP or Sturgeon.

Edited by biggbn on Thursday 9th July 14:06

[amusingduck]

biggbn said:

I do wonder how it would be relieved on this of any other forum if posters continually lampooned the many and various accents used south of the border, or God forbid, a Jamaican, Nigerian, Pakistani accent. Its rather pathetic and poor form, and this from someone who has little time for the SNP or Sturgeon.

I wasn't intending to mock anyone's accent. My understanding was that Toarees was about the way Sturgeon uses the term, rather than what she sounds like. I'll phrase it differently in future.

[Edinburger]

ant1973 said:

https://commonweal.scot/library/the-demographics-o...

I probably overplayed my hand a little earlier by saying "generally"...

Basically a majority of ABC1s will not vote for the SNP\Indy. However, there is a sizeable minority who will (40% or so). That chimes with the anecdotes posted this morning leaving me, as ever, as the outlier...

However, I am nothing if not a democrat. If a majority are prepared to vote for it, provided I can live in rUK, so be it.

Thanks for sharing - I'll look at that later.

[Edinburger]

biggbn said:

amusingduck said:

How long would the Toarees get away with not taking minutes at meetings subject to FOI?

I do wonder how it would be recieved on this or any other forum if posters continually lampooned the many and various accents used south of the border, or God forbid, a Jamaican, Nigerian, Pakistani accent. Its rather pathetic and poor form, and this from someone who has little time for the SNP or Sturgeon.

Edited by biggbn on Thursday 9th July 14:06

Agreed. I'm surprised the mods haven't picked up on this point. To be fair, amusingduck isn't the only one who does this.

[irc]

biggbn said:

I do wonder how it would be relieved on this of any other forum if posters continually lampooned the many and various accents used south of the border, or God forbid, a Jamaican, Nigerian, Pakistani accent. Its rather pathetic and poor form, and this from someone who has little time for the SNP or Sturgeon.

Maybe just ne but I saw the Toarees meme as referring to the SNP kneejerk blaming the Tories for everything. Not accents.
I'm just surprised they haven't blamed bad weather on Westminster yet.

[biggbn]

irc said:

biggbn said:

I do wonder how it would be relieved on this of any other forum if posters continually lampooned the many and various accents used south of the border, or God forbid, a Jamaican, Nigerian, Pakistani accent. Its rather pathetic and poor form, and this from someone who has little time for the SNP or Sturgeon.

Maybe just ne but I saw the Toarees meme as referring to the SNP kneejerk blaming the Tories for everything. Not accents.
I'm just surprised they haven't blamed bad weather on Westminster yet.

A few posters do it, one specifically suggested Sturgeon does it on purpose. There have been many examples of mockery of a caricatured Scottish accent on this thread, not just saying mocking Tory pronunciation. The electorate themselves have been described in less than charitable fashion also. I guess it identifies the character and level of some of the people who 'debate' on here.

Edit. Its not just this thread, the general level of poor manners and thoughtless posting almost everywhere, even in some car threads, is really getting to me. I may have a wee holiday away from this yet, but would miss the genuine engagement and pearls of wisdom and experience that can also crop up!

Edited by biggbn on Thursday 9th July 14:35

[Roderick Spode]

biggbn said:

A few posters do it, one specifically suggested Sturgeon does it on purpose. There have been many examples of mockery of a caricatured Scottish accent on this thread, not just saying mocking Tory pronunciation. The electorate themselves have been described in less than charitable fashion also. I guess it identifies the character and level of some of the people who 'debate' on here.

I guess that's a reference to the likes of me, who parody the way some hardline Scottish nationalists present themselves on social media, both verbally and written, in an attempt to appear 'mair Scoddish' than others. I shall refrain from doing so in future if it causes offence. You have my apologies.

[biggbn]

Roderick Spode said:

biggbn said:

A few posters do it, one specifically suggested Sturgeon does it on purpose. There have been many examples of mockery of a caricatured Scottish accent on this thread, not just saying mocking Tory pronunciation. The electorate themselves have been described in less than charitable fashion also. I guess it identifies the character and level of some of the people who 'debate' on here.

I guess that's a reference to the likes of me, who parody the way some hardline Scottish nationalists present themselves on social media, both verbally and written, in an attempt to appear 'mair Scoddish' than others. I shall refrain from doing so in future if it causes offence. You have my apologies.

No problem man. I dont find it offensive personally, I just think it takes away hugely from the usually excellent points you, and others make. I just think its unnecessary and as I wrote, question if you would see it as acceptable to parody a thick Asian, African or English accent . Tbanks for your reply, I enjoy your posts although we are rarely in agreement!

Edit. Apologies for my wording in the first comment I made with regards character and level. That was uncalled for and exactly the kind of thing I have made observations about in the past, hypocrite that I am. I won't edit it but will leave it up as a warning about posting whilst in a relatively foul mood and without thinking things through and proof reading. Enjoy your day all, gbn

Edited by biggbn on Thursday 9th July 15:02

[Roderick Spode]

biggbn said:

No problem man. I dont find it offensive personally, I just think it takes away hugely from the usually excellent points you, and others make. I just think its unnecessary and as I wrote, question if you would see it as acceptable to parody a thick Asian, African or English accent . Tbanks for your reply, I enjoy your posts although we are rarely in agreement!

[anonymous-user]

sambucket said:

They will probably do 250k at a guess.

Nailed it!

Scots home-buyers transactions tax starting point rises from £145k to £250k, starting date yet to be set:

[glazbagun]

biggbn said:

amusingduck said:

How long would the Toarees get away with not taking minutes at meetings subject to FOI?

I do wonder how it would be recieved on this or any other forum if posters continually lampooned the many and various accents used south of the border, or God forbid, a Jamaican, Nigerian, Pakistani accent. Its rather pathetic and poor form, and this from someone who has little time for the SNP or Sturgeon.

Bothers me little- the people I see use it IRL are all Scots parodying themselves in the same way we have Scottish memes and all cultures lampoon themselves. The English I know who observe another anti-Tory rant tend to use their own accents.



What is pathetic and poor form is the way it has become the SNP response to literally almost everything and the people who use it when they could simply say "conservative". It started long before the SNP got their kick of the ball of course.

Let's not forget that the word Tory itself has been turned into a pejorative and those using it rarely use it in good faith.

[hutchst]

Tories are Conservative politicians or occasionally, in a wider context, party members, across the UK.

Toarees are mythical bogeymen that exist in tbe minds of some Scottish politians, traditionally believed to inhabit a mythical faraway land called Westminster.

[biggbn]

glazbagun said:

biggbn said:

amusingduck said:

How long would the Toarees get away with not taking minutes at meetings subject to FOI?

I do wonder how it would be recieved on this or any other forum if posters continually lampooned the many and various accents used south of the border, or God forbid, a Jamaican, Nigerian, Pakistani accent. Its rather pathetic and poor form, and this from someone who has little time for the SNP or Sturgeon.

Bothers me little- the people I see use it IRL are all Scots parodying themselves in the same way we have Scottish memes and all cultures lampoon themselves. The English I know who observe another anti-Tory rant tend to use their own accents.



What is pathetic and poor form is the way it has become the SNP response to literally almost everything and the people who use it when they could simply say "conservative". It started long before the SNP got their kick of the ball of course.

Let's not forget that the word Tory itself has been turned into a pejorative and those using it rarely use it in good faith.

Perfectly valid point, I'm no fan of divisiveness either way and cannot deny that both accent and vocabulary is rich and diverse north of the border...as it is the world over. I'm no fan of SNP or Sturgeon and only raised the point for the reasons I give...and posted an apology for my tone. If you, or anyone else wish to still use this caricatured Scot's language, crack on. Your prerogative. For me it diminishes the impact of what you are saying and destroys credibility, but, each to their own. Freedom of speech and freedom of expression does not mean freedom from consequence, the consequence being excellent argumentative points are lost in the lazy caricaturing. Easy to hit an open goal.

I dont want to cause disharmony, I would not poke fun at another's accent, but, each to their own. To clarify, I agree with you about the bdisation of the word tory by some SNP to reconfigure it as a catch all for all that's wrong in their world. But to sink to that level of debate is only engaging on their terms. Sun Tzu would have something to say about that!!

Edited by biggbn on Thursday 9th July 15:43