Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 9
Discussion
Big Easy said:
technodup said:
Our resident Nat drone is conspicuous by his absence these days. It's almost as if he knows the game is up.
If you're referring to Edinburger, he posted yesterday morning. It's almost as if sometimes he has more important things to do than reassure you that he's still in favour of Scotland becoming independent. hutchst said:
Joking aside, it is interesting that we have evolved from a serious discussion about the fears, and real issues, associated with Scotland actually leaving the UK, to poking our fingers and laughing at pretty much everything the SNP says and does.
That alone should tell us something.
Indeed. Westminster/Tories used to be the bogeyman but the tide has turned and now Alex Salmond/Derek MacKay/Ian Blackford are the people parents scare their kids with.That alone should tell us something.
It is now just a waiting game. A series of spectres that were supposed to convince the Scottish people that independence was their salvation (Brexit, successive Conservative governments, Boris Johnson) have proven to be relatively benign. The SNP need a new game plan as there is nothing for the rUK government to lose by rejecting any of their constitutional advances. The obvious alternative tack as has been discussed ad-infinitum in here is to run a tight ship, demonstrate competence and come up with clear answers to the still-fudged questions about currency/borders etc. that independence throws up.
Trouble is the SNP just don't have it in them. They are genuinely scared of putting the focus on themselves as they risk going backwards rather than forwards - economic competency means that there will be winners and losers and with welfare powers now coming to Scotland whether the SNP like it or not they will have to decide who the winners and losers are and take the hit on their popularity. The currency question has a very obvious (and very unpopular) answer if the SNP are serious about EU membership. Can the SNP really go on indefinitely, obfuscating on every-day issues and attempting to face every direction and be everyone's friend with regards to every policy issue?
Of course they can't!
Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 11th February 11:25
Evercross said:
Edinburger said:
I see the SNP have, quite rightly, been asked to remove “independence spending” from the budget. The budget outlined spend for independence referendum priorities for 2020/21 without specifying how much would be spent.
How can such ambiguity be in a budget proposal?
I think I speak for all 'yoons' here when I say l am really pleased that you agree that this should not be allowed to pass. You might consider this a tad hyperbolic 'burger, but could you agree that considering the 'entitled' way certain individuals within the Scottish Nationalist movement and the movement as a whole takes liberties with the resources and the voices of others because they believe they are pursuing what they see as a righteous cause rather than a political one that this is just an extension of that entitled attitude - ie. they genuinely cannot see what is wrong with what they are doing now?How can such ambiguity be in a budget proposal?
The problem is not that there should be no ambiguity of course. There should be no spending of public funds whatsoever on 'independence' as the current legal status of that issue is that it was rejected as a proposal in a legal referendum. 'Independence' is therefore currently a campaigning issue for any political party that wishes to continue or begin to propose it as a policy and so it is up to them how they spend their own party funds on such a campaign. That any party campaigning for independence happens to have their hands on public funds does not give them any right whatsoever to use that money to campaign.
If a referendum had been won and the money was earmarked for independence preparations then that would be a different matter, but that is not where Scotland is. Not even close.
Edited by Evercross on Monday 10th February 10:23
I've no doubt we will hear people arguing about independence for a very long time but a government's job is to govern first and foremost. If the SNP want to pay for resource to fight for another referendum then fine, but governing is first priority.
hutchst said:
Joking aside, it is interesting that we have evolved from a serious discussion about the fears, and real issues, associated with Scotland actually leaving the UK, to poking our fingers and laughing at pretty much everything the SNP says and does.
That alone should tell us something.
This thread has done that for a long time.That alone should tell us something.
Pastor Of Muppets said:
Massive floods again in the borders, Dumfries and many other places, and yet Sturgeon flies to Brussels to keep the SNP lovefest with the EU going, the money spent on her and others accommodation, flights and other perks could have been put towards flood defences but instead such problems for the people of Scotland in a time of need just isn't important enough.
And how about this one, the SNP has 47 seats in Westminster Parliament out of 650, if they join the EU they will have a maximum of 9 seats in the EU Parliament out of 735 . They keep shouting about their voice not being heard in Westminster, WTF do they think it's volume is going to be in the EU?, a whisper if they are lucky.
Sturgeons ambitions EU wise are more for her own ambitions than the good of Scotland .The Scottish people themselves must look a bit deeper into the implications of EU Membership and decide if this really is the "Freedom" they think they are getting . Be Warned people ,the take over will be behind your backs and Sturgeon will not tell you all you need to know, Politicians never do if they think they in for a big pay deal.
This woman will sell Scotland down the river without any shadow of a doubt, the people of Scotland need to seriously wake up to the
danger of Nicola Sturgeon and her SNP cohorts.
That's not really true. Plenty small countries have their voices heard. Just look at the Republic of Ireland.And how about this one, the SNP has 47 seats in Westminster Parliament out of 650, if they join the EU they will have a maximum of 9 seats in the EU Parliament out of 735 . They keep shouting about their voice not being heard in Westminster, WTF do they think it's volume is going to be in the EU?, a whisper if they are lucky.
Sturgeons ambitions EU wise are more for her own ambitions than the good of Scotland .The Scottish people themselves must look a bit deeper into the implications of EU Membership and decide if this really is the "Freedom" they think they are getting . Be Warned people ,the take over will be behind your backs and Sturgeon will not tell you all you need to know, Politicians never do if they think they in for a big pay deal.
This woman will sell Scotland down the river without any shadow of a doubt, the people of Scotland need to seriously wake up to the
danger of Nicola Sturgeon and her SNP cohorts.
Big Easy said:
technodup said:
Our resident Nat drone is conspicuous by his absence these days. It's almost as if he knows the game is up.
If you're referring to Edinburger, he posted yesterday morning. It's almost as if sometimes he has more important things to do than reassure you that he's still in favour of Scotland becoming independent. Pastor Of Muppets said:
technodup said:
Our resident Nat drone is conspicuous by his absence these days. It's almost as if he knows the game is up.
Keeps the thread tidy instead of being littered with 1 line (often irrelevant) posts.No issue with SNats posting on the thread if it's rhetoric worth debating with however.
Not so sure about the game being up though, they may well be in a bad position and wracked with scandal but these runts will
stop at nothing, never let your guard down, analyse and study every single move they make, scrutinise them and call them
to account for every failure (the list is long).
Edinburger said:
That's not really true. Plenty small countries have their voices heard. Just look at the Republic of Ireland.
Brexit, sure, as they're the only EU member with a land border.Aside from Brexit, any other examples of ROI's voice being heard in the EU? Not corporation tax harmonisation, clearly
Evercross said:
Indeed. Westminster/Tories used to be the bogeyman but the tide has turned and now Alex Salmond/Derek MacKay/Ian Blackford / Bill Walker/ John Marshall/ Brendan O'Hara / Ian Hunter are the people parents scare their kids with.
FTFY.Worth a look is this blog that highlights the uselessness of many of the SNP MSP's that are ruining Scotland and raking in large salaries.
From 2016 but still relevant today, plus the other blogs contained therein.
https://mspfailureshighlighted.blogspot.com/2016/0...
Pastor Of Muppets said:
Evercross said:
Indeed. Westminster/Tories used to be the bogeyman but the tide has turned and now Alex Salmond/Derek MacKay/Ian Blackford / Bill Walker/ John Marshall/ Brendan O'Hara / Ian Hunter are the people parents scare their kids with.
FTFY.Worth a look is this blog that highlights the uselessness of many of the SNP MSP's that are ruining Scotland and raking in large salaries.
From 2016 but still relevant today, plus the other blogs contained therein.
https://mspfailureshighlighted.blogspot.com/2016/0...
In fact, perhaps we'd get better quality people in those jobs if we did pay large salaries.
Edinburger said:
That's not really true. Plenty small countries have their voices heard. Just look at the Republic of Ireland.
Do they ?Can you give any examples of Ireland winning policies in the EU ?
The EU might listen .. but do they act ?
Well, certainly when the ROI voted against the ratification of the EU constitution they listened .. and then told them to vote again and get the right answer
i sense the mckay episode, or the salmond trial will matter little in minds of many separatists,
wokeness not being in the forefront of most snp foot soldiers' psyche.
nicky's much touted faliure of support and leadership challenge has not materialised, and the yes percentage rises slowly but steadily.
for those who think the ba' is burst, like proud edward was advised, think again.
wokeness not being in the forefront of most snp foot soldiers' psyche.
nicky's much touted faliure of support and leadership challenge has not materialised, and the yes percentage rises slowly but steadily.
for those who think the ba' is burst, like proud edward was advised, think again.
It may not matter to the die hards.
But to the non fanatical people.
A person grooming kids is bad.
A person on 14 charges of indecent behaviour including attempted rape.
These will matter.
Only a fool would think otherwise.
See labours results in December for an example of a party shedding votes because of a bad leader and bad people.
But to the non fanatical people.
A person grooming kids is bad.
A person on 14 charges of indecent behaviour including attempted rape.
These will matter.
Only a fool would think otherwise.
See labours results in December for an example of a party shedding votes because of a bad leader and bad people.
Earthdweller said:
Well, certainly when the ROI voted against the ratification of the EU constitution they listened .. and then told them to vote again and get the right answer
not one of roi's proudest moments, i doubt few, if any songs have been written about that exhibition of cringing eu subservience.Edinburger said:
Politicians do not rake in large salaries.
In fact, perhaps we'd get better quality people in those jobs if we did pay large salaries.
I'd wager more than half the SP is on more now than they would be were they in normal employment. Not to mention the various other perks. In fact, perhaps we'd get better quality people in those jobs if we did pay large salaries.
I'm not fundamentally opposed to paying more for better, but it would have to come with more robust mechanisms to get them to f
k, the lack of which is being demonstrated currently with McKay.Edinburger said:
If it weren't for the SNP we wouldn't have the Queensferry Crossing
I don't think that is a fair and accurate statement. The Queensferry crossing was built out of necessity because cable fatigue and corrosion was discovered in the existing Fourth Road Bridge in 2004 which would have led to eventual closure or even potential collapse (with Scotland experiencing its own Morandi moment). The decision to commit to a replacement was made in 2006 and the SNP pretty much inherited the project bar the final details.New Forth bridge decision was made after corrosion discovery.
The older bridge is still in use only because reduced load capacity and a process of drying out the cables has extended its life, but it is still in a state of deterioration and will eventually have to be closed and demolished or repaired at significant expense.
In the light of the more recent disastrous management of public tendering of hospitals and ferries I actually shudder to think what might have been had the corrosion been discovered after 2007 and a Nationalist government had been wholly responsible for getting the project to 'shovel-ready' stage!
Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 11th February 14:24
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