Mansion Tax and Raid on Pensions
Discussion
Burwood said:
Nickgnome said:
Perhaps we should adopt a more American approach to taxation.
You may get a bit of a shock. $9,000 pa per person medical insurance premium. Obviously bit less when you are fit, healthy and say 40s but my Daughters in laws pay about $16,000 each.
Then there’s council tax 8K-12K $ per annum.
So not quite as inexpensive as you may think.
BTW foods no longer cheap either.
Tax has to be raised from somewhere.
And what personal taxes do they pay. A lot less than here. Top rate 35%. That’s why they don’t have free nhs style health. You may get a bit of a shock. $9,000 pa per person medical insurance premium. Obviously bit less when you are fit, healthy and say 40s but my Daughters in laws pay about $16,000 each.
Then there’s council tax 8K-12K $ per annum.
So not quite as inexpensive as you may think.
BTW foods no longer cheap either.
Tax has to be raised from somewhere.
fblm said:
Burwood said:
Nickgnome said:
Perhaps we should adopt a more American approach to taxation.
You may get a bit of a shock. $9,000 pa per person medical insurance premium. Obviously bit less when you are fit, healthy and say 40s but my Daughters in laws pay about $16,000 each.
Then there’s council tax 8K-12K $ per annum.
So not quite as inexpensive as you may think.
BTW foods no longer cheap either.
Tax has to be raised from somewhere.
And what personal taxes do they pay. A lot less than here. Top rate 35%. That’s why they don’t have free nhs style health. You may get a bit of a shock. $9,000 pa per person medical insurance premium. Obviously bit less when you are fit, healthy and say 40s but my Daughters in laws pay about $16,000 each.
Then there’s council tax 8K-12K $ per annum.
So not quite as inexpensive as you may think.
BTW foods no longer cheap either.
Tax has to be raised from somewhere.
I lived and worked there for several years and my Daughter lives there now with her husband and my Granddaughter.
They have a great life but there income is well into the $300k per annum so sort of middle class. Joe average is ok as long as he or his family has no illness and is content with public education and eat some rather unpleasant food.
It’s a real us and them approach.
It’s very common for people well into their 70s to be working.
It’s a pity we can’t ship a few of the moaners and their families there for a 5 year stint.
Murph7355 said:
Indeed it does.
But cherry picking odd bits of tax without looking at the whole including deductibles, is not the right way to go about comparing
Examples not cherry picking. But cherry picking odd bits of tax without looking at the whole including deductibles, is not the right way to go about comparing
I lived there working for Intel and my Daughter and family do now. It’s quite an extended family across a number of states.
It’s a pretty brutal approach to a society.
Even fresh food is expensive now.
If you really think it’s so wonderful live there for a few years with your family.
fblm said:
Burwood said:
Nickgnome said:
Perhaps we should adopt a more American approach to taxation.
You may get a bit of a shock. $9,000 pa per person medical insurance premium. Obviously bit less when you are fit, healthy and say 40s but my Daughters in laws pay about $16,000 each.
Then there’s council tax 8K-12K $ per annum.
So not quite as inexpensive as you may think.
BTW foods no longer cheap either.
Tax has to be raised from somewhere.
And what personal taxes do they pay. A lot less than here. Top rate 35%. That’s why they don’t have free nhs style health. You may get a bit of a shock. $9,000 pa per person medical insurance premium. Obviously bit less when you are fit, healthy and say 40s but my Daughters in laws pay about $16,000 each.
Then there’s council tax 8K-12K $ per annum.
So not quite as inexpensive as you may think.
BTW foods no longer cheap either.
Tax has to be raised from somewhere.
fblm said:
That's just federal. In NY someone earning $250k pays 35% federal, 2.35% FICA, 6.85% State and 3.88% City income taxes. What Nick refers to as ''council tax' is really property tax, paid by the owner and ranges from $500 a year to $100k+ depending where you live! Anyone saying the US is lightly taxed has never lived there!
How else are they meant to find the $650billion a year for the defence budget alone?$2billion a day!! An astonishing amount of money.
Nickgnome said:
There is a scary amount of crass ignorance in regard to the states.
I lived and worked there for several years and my Daughter lives there now with her husband and my Granddaughter.
They have a great life but there income is well into the $300k per annum so sort of middle class. Joe average is ok as long as he or his family has no illness and is content with public education and eat some rather unpleasant food.
It’s a real us and them approach.
It’s very common for people well into their 70s to be working.
It’s a pity we can’t ship a few of the moaners and their families there for a 5 year stint.
I loved my 5 years in NYC; the most heavily taxed city in the US! In most of the US $300k will afford a family a fantastic standard of living that 200k in the UK just won't buy you. You say it's 'us and them' and to some extent that's true but the tax system is far more progressive than ours; I was paying the best part of 50% income tax in NY but a married couple earning $80k a year, living in a state that doesn't have income tax like Florida, Texas,New Hampshire etc... will pay less than 12% federal +3% FICO. Almost 50% of Americans pay no federal income tax at all...I lived and worked there for several years and my Daughter lives there now with her husband and my Granddaughter.
They have a great life but there income is well into the $300k per annum so sort of middle class. Joe average is ok as long as he or his family has no illness and is content with public education and eat some rather unpleasant food.
It’s a real us and them approach.
It’s very common for people well into their 70s to be working.
It’s a pity we can’t ship a few of the moaners and their families there for a 5 year stint.
Burwood said:
I never said lightly taxed. Where is the biggest wealthy? Stocks and property. In the US, investments held long term attract zero capital gains...
Sorry didn't mean to imply you did. WRT CGT long term gains are only taxed at 0 if you earn less than $40k, otherwise 20% I think.Nickgnome said:
98elise said:
My Son has severe anxiety and depression and was having suicidal thoughts before Christmas. He's been told it will be May before he can see an NHS therapist.
May be try and pay for some private counselling in the interim?Hopefully with you and his friends, you are able to give support.
It's like going to the doctor with life threatening stomach pains and them saying you can see a specialist in 6 months.
You then start looking for alternative medicines in a field where there are everything from faith healers to magicians (hypnotists). It's not as though it's cheap either.
98elise said:
Nickgnome said:
98elise said:
My Son has severe anxiety and depression and was having suicidal thoughts before Christmas. He's been told it will be May before he can see an NHS therapist.
May be try and pay for some private counselling in the interim?Hopefully with you and his friends, you are able to give support.
It's like going to the doctor with life threatening stomach pains and them saying you can see a specialist in 6 months.
You then start looking for alternative medicines in a field where there are everything from faith healers to magicians (hypnotists). It's not as though it's cheap either.
t for, possibly, a different set of side effects with little - if any - improvement.The one thing that they do recommend to others is Mindfulness. There's a lot of books, apps, etc out there for Mindfulness, but I could ask for the specific title they have if it's of use?
Best of luck to you and your lad, I wouldn't wish it upon anyone.
I was just going to suggest...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mindfulness-practical-gui...
Could try that for a tenner. Guided meditations & CBT combined. It worked really well for my anxiety and it's also designed to help with more severe mental health issues.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mindfulness-practical-gui...
Could try that for a tenner. Guided meditations & CBT combined. It worked really well for my anxiety and it's also designed to help with more severe mental health issues.
andy_s said:
98elise said:
My Son has severe anxiety and depression and was having suicidal thoughts before Christmas. He's been told it will be May before he can see an NHS therapist.
This seems to be a real blind-spot at the moment, have heard similar.My Wife works at our local 'Mind' office as an administrator and said the NHS is so far behind being able to able people it's a waste of time going to them really. I do not know the exact cost but in the whole scheme of things it's peanuts if it can help. Good luck.
Edited by Rocket. on Thursday 13th February 14:09
andy_s said:
oyster said:
Which is why capital gains on principal private residence might be a way forward. You're not taxing hard work or effort - you are merely taxing the unearned gain.
You're taxing the 25 years of hard work needed to pay for the ruddy thing in the first place.The reason I don't think it would work is that it offers to great a discouragement for people to move at all, especially older people.
If someone bought a house 30 years ago for £100k its now worth £1m, what's the point in them downsizing to a house worth £600k? After the tax bill, they'd be left with a smaller house and possibly less money in the bank as well.
Obviously if they did go this route, they'd have to drip it in over time, but the same could still apply.
The other problem is that there might not be much of a tax take id property prices don't take off again,
Nickgnome said:
Examples not cherry picking.
I lived there working for Intel and my Daughter and family do now. It’s quite an extended family across a number of states.
It’s a pretty brutal approach to a society.
Even fresh food is expensive now.
If you really think it’s so wonderful live there for a few years with your family.
The examples are cherry picking (or in this instance tagnut picking). It's like those who note country 'x' spends more on health than country 'y' without acknowledging the full picture. Without acknowledging the full picture it's meaningless.I lived there working for Intel and my Daughter and family do now. It’s quite an extended family across a number of states.
It’s a pretty brutal approach to a society.
Even fresh food is expensive now.
If you really think it’s so wonderful live there for a few years with your family.
I have lived in the US. No family at the time. It's far from perfect. Nowhere is. But equally the tiny little tagnut you chose to post about doesn't make it the worst place either.
Everywhere has pros and cons. Not entirely unrelated to how they choose to extract tax and what they elect to spend it on.
Oh, and fresh food can be expensive anywhere too. There are very few places on Earth where you won't have a great time if you're "above the line". The inverse applies equally. That's life for you. The best countries (IMO) give every citizen equal chance to get above the line. It's then down to the citizen to seize it.
kingston12 said:
I don't see why if this is purely the gain being taxed.
The reason I don't think it would work is that it offers to great a discouragement for people to move at all, especially older people.
If someone bought a house 30 years ago for £100k its now worth £1m, what's the point in them downsizing to a house worth £600k? After the tax bill, they'd be left with a smaller house and possibly less money in the bank as well.
Obviously if they did go this route, they'd have to drip it in over time, but the same could still apply.
The other problem is that there might not be much of a tax take id property prices don't take off again,
From a systemic economic productivity perspective it's a total non starter imo; people need to move for work!The reason I don't think it would work is that it offers to great a discouragement for people to move at all, especially older people.
If someone bought a house 30 years ago for £100k its now worth £1m, what's the point in them downsizing to a house worth £600k? After the tax bill, they'd be left with a smaller house and possibly less money in the bank as well.
Obviously if they did go this route, they'd have to drip it in over time, but the same could still apply.
The other problem is that there might not be much of a tax take id property prices don't take off again,
Helicopter123 said:
Suspect the departure of Javid means the end of Mansion Tax and Pension Raid talk.
Javid was quite keen on fiscal discipline, Boris less so. Spending pledges now more likely to go on the national credit card than matched with tax hikes...
Well surely that is OK, it was the approach you were shouting was the right one before the election, and after all, austerity is evil and doesn't work. You should therefore be happy.Javid was quite keen on fiscal discipline, Boris less so. Spending pledges now more likely to go on the national credit card than matched with tax hikes...
TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
Helicopter123 said:
Suspect the departure of Javid means the end of Mansion Tax and Pension Raid talk.
Javid was quite keen on fiscal discipline, Boris less so. Spending pledges now more likely to go on the national credit card than matched with tax hikes...
Well surely that is OK, it was the approach you were shouting was the right one before the election, and after all, austerity is evil and doesn't work. You should therefore be happy.Javid was quite keen on fiscal discipline, Boris less so. Spending pledges now more likely to go on the national credit card than matched with tax hikes...
For me, austerity failed but then it was always a political rather than an economic project.
Helicopter123 said:
TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
Helicopter123 said:
Suspect the departure of Javid means the end of Mansion Tax and Pension Raid talk.
Javid was quite keen on fiscal discipline, Boris less so. Spending pledges now more likely to go on the national credit card than matched with tax hikes...
Well surely that is OK, it was the approach you were shouting was the right one before the election, and after all, austerity is evil and doesn't work. You should therefore be happy.Javid was quite keen on fiscal discipline, Boris less so. Spending pledges now more likely to go on the national credit card than matched with tax hikes...
For me, austerity failed but then it was always a political rather than an economic project.
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