This a*se should be arrested
Discussion
matchmaker said:
Meantime, on Ben Nevis:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-i...
You don’t understand the risk assessment the climbers made. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-i...
BBC said:
Rescuers said four people helped from Ben Nevis were lucky to be alive.
They said the group who were caught in blizzard conditions had "no ice axes, no crampons and as far as we are aware no maps". Three of them were wearing trainers
Lochaber Mountain Rescue Team found them near the summit of the mountain.
Idiots!They said the group who were caught in blizzard conditions had "no ice axes, no crampons and as far as we are aware no maps". Three of them were wearing trainers
Lochaber Mountain Rescue Team found them near the summit of the mountain.
The mountain rescue team take on the risk / they love it.
Specify what conditions they shouldn’t climb I.e. the temp / depth of snow / snow angel making ability on a score of 1-10.
Must have missed a few.
Risk assessment is a huge part of adrenaline sports coz you only get the adrenaline rush when you're aware that you're in a risky position. Thinking about the risk, planning how you're going to mitigate it and then executing that risk mitigation strategy in spite of being half terrified is what these sports are all about. If you're not thinking about the risk, you're not getting the buzz.
To be clear, it doesn't mean they all make sensible choices as a result of thinking about the risk. I know a fair few who made daft decisions and paid high prices as a result.
To be clear, it doesn't mean they all make sensible choices as a result of thinking about the risk. I know a fair few who made daft decisions and paid high prices as a result.
Edited by ATG on Tuesday 11th February 11:05
bulldong said:
witko999 said:
I wouldn't want to be anywhere near that boat for fear of being crushed under it in those conditions.
I was also thinking the same. The position the surfer in the water is not a suitable rescue zone anyway. Its right next to the pier, in the breaking waves, in the shallow water. Arguably the risk to life and machine is greater than just letting the surfer sort himself out. He didn't need help anyway, as we have already established.La Liga said:
matchmaker said:
Meantime, on Ben Nevis:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-i...
You don’t understand the risk assessment the climbers made. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-i...
BBC said:
Rescuers said four people helped from Ben Nevis were lucky to be alive.
They said the group who were caught in blizzard conditions had "no ice axes, no crampons and as far as we are aware no maps". Three of them were wearing trainers
Lochaber Mountain Rescue Team found them near the summit of the mountain.
Idiots!They said the group who were caught in blizzard conditions had "no ice axes, no crampons and as far as we are aware no maps". Three of them were wearing trainers
Lochaber Mountain Rescue Team found them near the summit of the mountain.
The mountain rescue team take on the risk / they love it.
Specify what conditions they shouldn’t climb I.e. the temp / depth of snow / snow angel making ability on a score of 1-10.
Must have missed a few.
The rescuers made a decision to rescue them, it’s no way the climber’s responsibility if anyone else gets hurt plus tortured descriptions of the event to suggest they actually “self rescued”
La Liga said:
ou don’t understand the risk assessment the climbers made.
The mountain rescue team take on the risk / they love it.
Specify what conditions they shouldn’t climb I.e. the temp / depth of snow / snow angel making ability on a score of 1-10.
Must have missed a few.
They're idiots. They went out without the essentials. They'd have been poorly equipped in good conditions.The mountain rescue team take on the risk / they love it.
Specify what conditions they shouldn’t climb I.e. the temp / depth of snow / snow angel making ability on a score of 1-10.
Must have missed a few.
The surfer suffered equipment failure and still managed to sort himself out.
Edited by Bill on Tuesday 11th February 12:00
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: To those defending him, a parallel seems to be those people who try and climb Ben Nevis or Snowdonia wearing flip flops and a tee shirt.
I'm sure to some that will be a poor parallel and perhaps it is, I don't surf, but my point is that even if you can't work out how to define it on a piece of paper, it's pretty obvious when someone is taking the piss and putting others safety at risk unnecessarily.
you are Charlie, AICMFP!I'm sure to some that will be a poor parallel and perhaps it is, I don't surf, but my point is that even if you can't work out how to define it on a piece of paper, it's pretty obvious when someone is taking the piss and putting others safety at risk unnecessarily.
La Liga said:
matchmaker said:
Meantime, on Ben Nevis:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-i...
You don’t understand the risk assessment the climbers made. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-i...
BBC said:
Rescuers said four people helped from Ben Nevis were lucky to be alive.
They said the group who were caught in blizzard conditions had "no ice axes, no crampons and as far as we are aware no maps". Three of them were wearing trainers
Lochaber Mountain Rescue Team found them near the summit of the mountain.
Idiots!They said the group who were caught in blizzard conditions had "no ice axes, no crampons and as far as we are aware no maps". Three of them were wearing trainers
Lochaber Mountain Rescue Team found them near the summit of the mountain.
The mountain rescue team take on the risk / they love it.
Specify what conditions they shouldn’t climb I.e. the temp / depth of snow / snow angel making ability on a score of 1-10.
Must have missed a few.
Nickgnome said:
bulldong said:
witko999 said:
I wouldn't want to be anywhere near that boat for fear of being crushed under it in those conditions.
I was also thinking the same. The position the surfer in the water is not a suitable rescue zone anyway. Its right next to the pier, in the breaking waves, in the shallow water. Arguably the risk to life and machine is greater than just letting the surfer sort himself out. He didn't need help anyway, as we have already established.He entered the water in Hastings in front of the rnli station, lost his board and drifted down the coast and ended up getting out at Pett Level.
“The man was seen struggling off the coast of Hastings, East Sussex, at about 11:00 GMT, prompting a search involving the Coastguard helicopter.
He was found alive by the Coastguard about six miles away in Rye Bay shortly before 13:30. “
Then the helicopter landed and he was taken to William Harvey hospital in Ashford
Do people honestly think he actually swam over 7k in the worst storm in ages to Pett Level as some kind of self rescue plan?
witko999 said:
Vipers said:
As if most carry out a "Risk assessment" which I am throughly familiar with, but if you say these surfers carry it out, I will accept your comments. And having spend many years at sea, I am very familiar with the capabilities of ships, like crossing the bay of biscay in winter, and riding out a storm.
Of course they carry out a risk assessment. It's not an official document that they must file, but they look at the conditions for a while and make decisions about whether they can handle it.BMWBen said:
All you've done here is demonstrate that you don't have the knowledge or experience to make risk assessments about it.
Windsurfing only gets started in conditions which are difficult or dangerous for most other leisure activities that take place on the water. The equipment is designed for it, the participants have experience in dealing with it safely. The reason why going for a paddle board or a kayak in the same conditions would get you into trouble is because it's not designed for it.
The Isle of Wight ferries were still running, and ships still going about their daily business in the same conditions quite safely because the conditions were within their design capabilities. Lifeboats are specifically designed to perform in far worse conditions than we had this weekend.
Crossing the road is also a very risky thing to do if you don't have the required experience and training. If you do, it's almost completely safe.
As I stated in a different reply, nobody who goes out into the sea includes "someone might be able to rescue me" in their risk assessment. You always assume that nobody is going to rescue you and you're on your own and you equip and prepare yourself as such. People who don't know the sea don't understand this, because everywhere else in life you have that safety net and you count on it.
Windsurfing only gets started in conditions which are difficult or dangerous for most other leisure activities that take place on the water. The equipment is designed for it, the participants have experience in dealing with it safely. The reason why going for a paddle board or a kayak in the same conditions would get you into trouble is because it's not designed for it.
The Isle of Wight ferries were still running, and ships still going about their daily business in the same conditions quite safely because the conditions were within their design capabilities. Lifeboats are specifically designed to perform in far worse conditions than we had this weekend.
Crossing the road is also a very risky thing to do if you don't have the required experience and training. If you do, it's almost completely safe.
As I stated in a different reply, nobody who goes out into the sea includes "someone might be able to rescue me" in their risk assessment. You always assume that nobody is going to rescue you and you're on your own and you equip and prepare yourself as such. People who don't know the sea don't understand this, because everywhere else in life you have that safety net and you count on it.
Edited by BMWBen on Tuesday 11th February 09:05
Well said.I used to kitesurf quite a lot and would find that the serious windsurfers would only go out when the conditions were extreme (wind of force 6 and above, preferably with waves bigger than mast height)....
El stovey said:
Didn’t they not rescue him using the boat because they couldn’t actually find him?
He entered the water in Hastings in front of the rnli station, lost his board and drifted down the coast and ended up getting out at Pett Level.
“The man was seen struggling off the coast of Hastings, East Sussex, at about 11:00 GMT, prompting a search involving the Coastguard helicopter.
He was found alive by the Coastguard about six miles away in Rye Bay shortly before 13:30. “
Then the helicopter landed and he was taken to William Harvey hospital in Ashford
Do people honestly think he actually swam over 7k in the worst storm in ages to Pett Level as some kind of self rescue plan?
It says in the Twitter video someone posted earlier that the RNLI actually saw him from the boat.He entered the water in Hastings in front of the rnli station, lost his board and drifted down the coast and ended up getting out at Pett Level.
“The man was seen struggling off the coast of Hastings, East Sussex, at about 11:00 GMT, prompting a search involving the Coastguard helicopter.
He was found alive by the Coastguard about six miles away in Rye Bay shortly before 13:30. “
Then the helicopter landed and he was taken to William Harvey hospital in Ashford
Do people honestly think he actually swam over 7k in the worst storm in ages to Pett Level as some kind of self rescue plan?
And if it wasn't a self rescue plan, what else was he doing there? Sometimes the current along the coast is sufficiently strong that you can't swim against it, particularly in big swells. I don't know the area around where it happened, but I have been out in fairly solid surf and had to exit the water 1 or 2 kilometers away, even with my surfboard because you can't paddle against it. I'm sure it wasn't his original intention when he got in the water, but once he lost his board there may have been no other option.
La Liga said:
matchmaker said:
Meantime, on Ben Nevis:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-i...
You don’t understand the risk assessment the climbers made. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-i...
BBC said:
Rescuers said four people helped from Ben Nevis were lucky to be alive.
They said the group who were caught in blizzard conditions had "no ice axes, no crampons and as far as we are aware no maps". Three of them were wearing trainers
Lochaber Mountain Rescue Team found them near the summit of the mountain.
Idiots!They said the group who were caught in blizzard conditions had "no ice axes, no crampons and as far as we are aware no maps". Three of them were wearing trainers
Lochaber Mountain Rescue Team found them near the summit of the mountain.
The mountain rescue team take on the risk / they love it.
Specify what conditions they shouldn’t climb I.e. the temp / depth of snow / snow angel making ability on a score of 1-10.
Must have missed a few.
I put off walking up Roseberry Topping near Guisborough on Sunday due to the weather, let alone tackling the highest peak in the UK. Madness!
Edited by grassomaniac on Tuesday 11th February 12:59
El stovey said:
Didn’t they not rescue him using the boat because they couldn’t actually find him?
He entered the water in Hastings in front of the rnli station, lost his board and drifted down the coast and ended up getting out at Pett Level.
“The man was seen struggling off the coast of Hastings, East Sussex, at about 11:00 GMT, prompting a search involving the Coastguard helicopter.
He was found alive by the Coastguard about six miles away in Rye Bay shortly before 13:30. “
Then the helicopter landed and he was taken to William Harvey hospital in Ashford
Do people honestly think he actually swam over 7k in the worst storm in ages to Pett Level as some kind of self rescue plan?
If the lifeboat hadn’t gone out, would the result not be exactly the same??He entered the water in Hastings in front of the rnli station, lost his board and drifted down the coast and ended up getting out at Pett Level.
“The man was seen struggling off the coast of Hastings, East Sussex, at about 11:00 GMT, prompting a search involving the Coastguard helicopter.
He was found alive by the Coastguard about six miles away in Rye Bay shortly before 13:30. “
Then the helicopter landed and he was taken to William Harvey hospital in Ashford
Do people honestly think he actually swam over 7k in the worst storm in ages to Pett Level as some kind of self rescue plan?
I find this so bizarre, honestly.
People enjoy lots of dangerous sports. Volunteer rescue services exist and choose to go to their aid when things go wrong.
The difference between a surfer in a wetsuit suffering an equipment failure and an ill-prepared hiker in trainers is night and day but in both cases, the (volunteer) rescue services chose to get involved.
In one case they were needed, in another they weren’t.
Is that not exactly what’s supposed to happen??
witko999 said:
It says in the Twitter video someone posted earlier that the RNLI actually saw him from the boat.
And if it wasn't a self rescue plan, what else was he doing there? Sometimes the current along the coast is sufficiently strong that you can't swim against it, particularly in big swells. I don't know the area around where it happened, but I have been out in fairly solid surf and had to exit the water 1 or 2 kilometers away, even with my surfboard because you can't paddle against it. I'm sure it wasn't his original intention when he got in the water, but once he lost his board there may have been no other option.
So what you’re saying is he had completely underestimated the conditions and risk had no plan for if he lost his board and was lucky to survive.And if it wasn't a self rescue plan, what else was he doing there? Sometimes the current along the coast is sufficiently strong that you can't swim against it, particularly in big swells. I don't know the area around where it happened, but I have been out in fairly solid surf and had to exit the water 1 or 2 kilometers away, even with my surfboard because you can't paddle against it. I'm sure it wasn't his original intention when he got in the water, but once he lost his board there may have been no other option.
grassomaniac said:
La Liga said:
matchmaker said:
Meantime, on Ben Nevis:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-i...
You don’t understand the risk assessment the climbers made. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-i...
BBC said:
Rescuers said four people helped from Ben Nevis were lucky to be alive.
They said the group who were caught in blizzard conditions had "no ice axes, no crampons and as far as we are aware no maps". Three of them were wearing trainers
Lochaber Mountain Rescue Team found them near the summit of the mountain.
Idiots!They said the group who were caught in blizzard conditions had "no ice axes, no crampons and as far as we are aware no maps". Three of them were wearing trainers
Lochaber Mountain Rescue Team found them near the summit of the mountain.
The mountain rescue team take on the risk / they love it.
Specify what conditions they shouldn’t climb I.e. the temp / depth of snow / snow angel making ability on a score of 1-10.
Must have missed a few.
I put off walking up Roseberry Topping near Guisborough on Sunday due to the weather, let alone tackling the highest peak in the UK. Madness!
They are different clearly different circumstances.
Some earlier mentioned how to define the conditions in which a person should and should not surf. As a laymen, if the RNLI say not to go out, that seems a pretty reasonable gauge.
Whether they were unnecessarily exposed to risk is clearly up for debate. The risk of deploying is greater than the risk of not.However, as other people have highlighted, perhaps this was very valuable in terms of experience / training.
In terms of the surfer making it back. Was that skill, or a large dose of luck? Who knows?
El stovey said:
Didn’t they not rescue him using the boat because they couldn’t actually find him?
He entered the water in Hastings in front of the rnli station, lost his board and drifted down the coast and ended up getting out at Pett Level.
“The man was seen struggling off the coast of Hastings, East Sussex, at about 11:00 GMT, prompting a search involving the Coastguard helicopter.
He was found alive by the Coastguard about six miles away in Rye Bay shortly before 13:30. “
Then the helicopter landed and he was taken to William Harvey hospital in Ashford
Do people honestly think he actually swam over 7k in the worst storm in ages to Pett Level as some kind of self rescue plan?
I’m not saying that as I do not have the detailed information available to me and would not take the press version as automatically correct. He entered the water in Hastings in front of the rnli station, lost his board and drifted down the coast and ended up getting out at Pett Level.
“The man was seen struggling off the coast of Hastings, East Sussex, at about 11:00 GMT, prompting a search involving the Coastguard helicopter.
He was found alive by the Coastguard about six miles away in Rye Bay shortly before 13:30. “
Then the helicopter landed and he was taken to William Harvey hospital in Ashford
Do people honestly think he actually swam over 7k in the worst storm in ages to Pett Level as some kind of self rescue plan?
I doubt very much he would have swam 7k.
Would I go out on my own? No.
When I sail I wear a life jacket in which I have installed a Plb AIS beacon.
Disastrous said:
In one case they were needed, in another they weren’t.
Is that not exactly what’s supposed to happen??
Of course they were needed. Do you think that if they’d found him during that time he was “swimming” 7k through the storm down the coast he would have said “nah I’m good I don’t need help.”Is that not exactly what’s supposed to happen??
Plus the coast guard were looking for him and there when he got out of the water and a helicopter landed next to him to get him to hospital.
How do you know the result would have been the same without the emergency services?
El stovey said:
witko999 said:
It says in the Twitter video someone posted earlier that the RNLI actually saw him from the boat.
And if it wasn't a self rescue plan, what else was he doing there? Sometimes the current along the coast is sufficiently strong that you can't swim against it, particularly in big swells. I don't know the area around where it happened, but I have been out in fairly solid surf and had to exit the water 1 or 2 kilometers away, even with my surfboard because you can't paddle against it. I'm sure it wasn't his original intention when he got in the water, but once he lost his board there may have been no other option.
So what you’re saying is he had completely underestimated the conditions and risk had no plan for if he lost his board and was lucky to survive.And if it wasn't a self rescue plan, what else was he doing there? Sometimes the current along the coast is sufficiently strong that you can't swim against it, particularly in big swells. I don't know the area around where it happened, but I have been out in fairly solid surf and had to exit the water 1 or 2 kilometers away, even with my surfboard because you can't paddle against it. I'm sure it wasn't his original intention when he got in the water, but once he lost his board there may have been no other option.
I’m sure you understand that if caught out it is advisable not to swim against the tide so if wind and tide were in the same direction that amount of drift would be expected.
El stovey said:
Disastrous said:
In one case they were needed, in another they weren’t.
Is that not exactly what’s supposed to happen??
Of course they were needed. Do you think that if they’d found him during that time he was “swimming” 7k through the storm down the coast he would have said “nah I’m good I don’t need help.”Is that not exactly what’s supposed to happen??
Plus the coast guard were looking for him and there when he got out of the water and a helicopter landed next to him to get him to hospital.
How do you know the result would have been the same without the emergency services?
Nickgnome said:
Why have you got such a bee in your bonnet over this particular incident and the person involved. I may well have done stuff differently either with a buddy or spotter.
I’m sure you understand that if caught out it is advisable not to swim against the tide so if wind and tide were in the same direction that amount of drift would be expected.
Because people are having a discussion about whether the bloke was an idiot for going surfing in those conditions on his own and whether in the end he needed help or not. I’m sure you understand that if caught out it is advisable not to swim against the tide so if wind and tide were in the same direction that amount of drift would be expected.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff