Why do cyclists try to undertake left turning trucks ?
Discussion
Ayahuasca said:
Who has the right of way when a vehicle wants to turn left and in order to make the turn needs to cross a cycle lane?
Nobody has "right of way" as it doesn't exist in the HC.There is "priority", and I would say the vehicle in front has priority up until the point at which they want to turn left, after which, they have a duty to do so without causing vehicles whose path they must cross, to slow down or make defensive manoeuvres.
Consider the same situation with two full-sized lanes of traffic, with the truck in the right-hand lane wanting to turn left (ok slight difference because they should switch to left lane in advance but ignore that for now).
1. Check mirrors on approach
2. Indicate intention to turn left
3. Proceed if it is safe to do so
If there is traffic (inc cyclists) advancing in that left lane, you wait for them to pass or stop. This should be no different.
Hell, it doesn't even matter that there is a cycle lane, the same holds true.
talksthetorque said:
I wonder if the van driver had a line of cycles to pass, and was trying to get to a gap, like when you are trying to get off the motorway in the car and there's a line of lorries to try and squeeze in to somewhere?
You can see the line of bikes at the end of the short video, so the van driver was either trying to get a gap or had an expectation the cyclist was a mind reader..There is enough of a downhill from the junction at Vauxhall Bridge for a cyclist to get a jump on the other traffic from the main junction, and you can see both cyclists picking up speed.
Looks fairly obvious from the longer video that the van driver didn't want to hang back to make the turn, due to the number of bikes. There can be idiots on both sides, but this time round it was the van driver..
treeroy said:
Court gave the driver 6 points for this so evidently the cyclist is NOT at fault.
It was s.172 failing to identify the driver though apparently (MS90). Bit silly since there was a reasonable chance they would have got away with careless & inconsiderate driving and 3 points.Gareth79 said:
It was s.172 failing to identify the driver though apparently (MS90). Bit silly since there was a reasonable chance they would have got away with careless & inconsiderate driving and 3 points.
Tesco said this guy was driving, and he's on video/photo exiting the vehicle. IMO should have been hit with both the failing to identify AND the careless driving. Our laws are really quite strange at times. Imagine having burgled a house, and been on camera doing so, then getting a lesser punishment than burglary because you didn't identify yourself as the burglar. Madness.(p.s. I had read elsewhere that they got 3 points and a fine for the failing to identify).
Edited by markyb_lcy on Thursday 13th February 18:06
rxe said:
Driver at fault, but it shows how crap cycle lanes are.
They slap a bit of paint on the road and call it a cycle lane. It deliberately puts the cyclist in conflict with cars and lorries, it’s just really s
t design. Looking in your mirrors for an undertaking vehicle is not a natural thing to do (which is why undertaking is frowned upon on motorways).
The person to blame is the road designer. Either left-turning vehicles should be allowed in the left lane (without penalty) prior to the turning or the blue paint should not go across side turnings. Not that some paint is going to make a difference.They slap a bit of paint on the road and call it a cycle lane. It deliberately puts the cyclist in conflict with cars and lorries, it’s just really s
t design. Looking in your mirrors for an undertaking vehicle is not a natural thing to do (which is why undertaking is frowned upon on motorways). The incident is the driver’s fault. Whether tesco carries any blame: for recruiting a bandit; for crap driver training; for expecting that driver to deliver too many orders in the time available is open to question
That the driver didn’t fess up and was done for that, rather than the driving offences is telling
That the driver didn’t fess up and was done for that, rather than the driving offences is telling
Pica-Pica said:
A question here, then.
With a cautious van driver, preparing and planning to turn left, should he at the appropriate time;
Occupy the blue lane, to prevent a cyclist passing,
..and would this be legal?
.
I do this all the time when driving a truck in areas with cycle lanes, i would rather pay a fine for crossing a white line than miss a cyclist in a blind spot or have one sneak up the inside of me when i am sat at some lights.With a cautious van driver, preparing and planning to turn left, should he at the appropriate time;
Occupy the blue lane, to prevent a cyclist passing,
..and would this be legal?
.
I really do not want to live the rest of my life with the death or serious injury of a cyclist in my head whoever s fault it was.
One other thing - and I say this as a cyclist. My cycling benefited massively when I did the RoSPA car and motorbike advanced driving training and tests.
Yet when I mention this to other cyclists they mostly look at me as if I’m mad. Many, sadly, think that as they legally need no training to ride a bike on the road, there would be no point in doing any.
Yet when I mention this to other cyclists they mostly look at me as if I’m mad. Many, sadly, think that as they legally need no training to ride a bike on the road, there would be no point in doing any.
citizensm1th said:
Pica-Pica said:
A question here, then.
With a cautious van driver, preparing and planning to turn left, should he at the appropriate time;
Occupy the blue lane, to prevent a cyclist passing,
..and would this be legal?
.
I do this all the time when driving a truck in areas with cycle lanes, i would rather pay a fine for crossing a white line than miss a cyclist in a blind spot or have one sneak up the inside of me when i am sat at some lights.With a cautious van driver, preparing and planning to turn left, should he at the appropriate time;
Occupy the blue lane, to prevent a cyclist passing,
..and would this be legal?
.
I really do not want to live the rest of my life with the death or serious injury of a cyclist in my head whoever s fault it was.
Harpoon said:
And that demonstrates to me the cyclist was a tt.Waiting beyond the stop line, and off and cycling before the lights have changed to green.
As a pedestrian I hate cyclists that do that.
JPJPJP said:
One other thing - and I say this as a cyclist. My cycling benefited massively when I did the RoSPA car and motorbike advanced driving training and tests.
Yet when I mention this to other cyclists they mostly look at me as if I’m mad. Many, sadly, think that as they legally need no training to ride a bike on the road, there would be no point in doing any.
Surely there's a significant proportion of cyclists who also drive...I agree it would be a good move for cyclists who drive to do some form of advanced driver training. It's not exactly easy to locate cyclist training (on-road) of a similar standard to RoSPA advanced driver / rider training. Where is it?!Yet when I mention this to other cyclists they mostly look at me as if I’m mad. Many, sadly, think that as they legally need no training to ride a bike on the road, there would be no point in doing any.
rxe said:
Driver at fault, but it shows how crap cycle lanes are.
They slap a bit of paint on the road and call it a cycle lane. It deliberately puts the cyclist in conflict with cars and lorries, it’s just really st design. Looking in your mirrors for an undertaking vehicle is not a natural thing to do (which is why undertaking is frowned upon on motorways).
The problem is that cycle lanes are designed for folks doing 8-10mph plodding along. That's how the local councils build and design them. Yet the reality is you get a decent number of cyclists doing 30-35mph and its simply not designed for that. Once you start to match the road speed of the other road users the cycle lane becomes a problem rather than a solution as everyone starts to end up at similar speeds. They slap a bit of paint on the road and call it a cycle lane. It deliberately puts the cyclist in conflict with cars and lorries, it’s just really s
t design. Looking in your mirrors for an undertaking vehicle is not a natural thing to do (which is why undertaking is frowned upon on motorways). This is why, IMHO, we will see more and more physical separation of cyclists from other road users. Barriers will be the next major thing to roll out.
In this case the driver was clearly at fault and then not wanting to own up to it in court just shows the type of person he is.
Here in lies the problem. LGV drivers (trucks) have been legislated into the ground in recent years. But at least its kept standards high (ish!). Drivers of LGVs today are IMHO better in most areas than those 30 years ago. This is mostly down to increased training, better technology such as advanced telematics etc and better vehicle design. Drivers generally find it very hard to get work with >6 points and the majority keep their licences clean.
Vans on the other hand, well anyone can drive one of those. I do think its time for a "van" test and a "van" CPC. Particularly delivery van drivers. Give them a 2-3 day CPC and a 20 minute driving test. Will cut accidents down. Govt would never do it though. You can literally go from being a farm hand in the middle of rural wales to being a delivery driver of a 3.5t van in London overnight.
Schmed said:
I just fecking hate cyclists. Utter militant s the lot of them.
Are you just generalising or have you met them all? As stated elsewhere here, I'm a keen cyclist, I cycle more than I drive. But I like to think that I'm not a "militant s the lot of them." when it comes to being a cyclist. I abide by the highway code, give cars right of way when it's theirs, and don't generally cycle like a tt, like a lot of people on bikes can do. But then, lots of car drivers are utter "militant s" too, doesn't mean they all are.The fundamental problem is that pedestrians, cyclists and vehicles dont mix.
In the early victorians it wasnt a problme, as cyclists mixed it with the horse and cars, pedestrians had pavements.
Then for 70 odd years cycl8sts hecqme a hobby for the countryside whilst cars et al took over in the city centres.
Now you have all three vying for space and they just dont mix.
In the early victorians it wasnt a problme, as cyclists mixed it with the horse and cars, pedestrians had pavements.
Then for 70 odd years cycl8sts hecqme a hobby for the countryside whilst cars et al took over in the city centres.
Now you have all three vying for space and they just dont mix.
johnwilliams77 said:
JPJPJP said:
If you are involved in an incident with a cyclist, posts like this could be a small part of the evidence - it would count against you
Are the anti-cycling thought police everywhere ? Not when you’re using the Dark Web.
I'm sure this has already been said - but that ain't a truck. It's a van and it's a totally different beast.
My opinion is that is shocking driving. In a van you don't really have blind spots. And he didn't signal in time or even take the turn at an appropriate speed imo.
How cyclists coming up the nearside of artics is a real problem. And it's something that needs addressing with cyclist education. I myself have been on a 'safe urban driving' cpc course day. I did this as it was free - and to my shame I did learn a lot from it. I learned how vulnerable cyclists really are etc. But I still feel that if you truly want to make them safe you need to start by training them how to not put themselves in stupid situations.
I was the guilty party when driving for Tesco. I managed to spin a car sideways and drive it down the road. I found myself in the wrong lane coming up to a roundabout which wasn't known to me. I thought I'd need to be in the right hand lane as was turning right. Then saw signs it was going into three lanes. I looked in my mirror and signalled to turn left to move over. Didn't realise a car was in my blindspot and clipped the back of it causing a bit of damage and a lot of terror for the people in the car.
I was totally wrong. And admitted as much. Scared the life out of me. I could honestly see nothing in my mirrors. And I didn't even feel anything. Only realised after hearing a bang and looking in my front mirror to see a car there. I totally accept I was 100% in the wrong - but again if car drivers were trained to not go up the inside of an artic and not cruise in their blind spot stuff like this could be avoided.
Lorry drivers should be a lot more careful. And given my own incompetence I can see why the London windows in doors and other safety stuff is needed. But i truly think both cyclists, car drivers and motorcyclists should be given a lot more education. When I'm on my little motorbike I assume everyone is trying to kill me. And I'm very conservative around lorries knowing their limitations etc. If all drivers had that level of concern there would be far fewer accidents, injuries and fatalities.
My opinion is that is shocking driving. In a van you don't really have blind spots. And he didn't signal in time or even take the turn at an appropriate speed imo.
How cyclists coming up the nearside of artics is a real problem. And it's something that needs addressing with cyclist education. I myself have been on a 'safe urban driving' cpc course day. I did this as it was free - and to my shame I did learn a lot from it. I learned how vulnerable cyclists really are etc. But I still feel that if you truly want to make them safe you need to start by training them how to not put themselves in stupid situations.
I was the guilty party when driving for Tesco. I managed to spin a car sideways and drive it down the road. I found myself in the wrong lane coming up to a roundabout which wasn't known to me. I thought I'd need to be in the right hand lane as was turning right. Then saw signs it was going into three lanes. I looked in my mirror and signalled to turn left to move over. Didn't realise a car was in my blindspot and clipped the back of it causing a bit of damage and a lot of terror for the people in the car.
I was totally wrong. And admitted as much. Scared the life out of me. I could honestly see nothing in my mirrors. And I didn't even feel anything. Only realised after hearing a bang and looking in my front mirror to see a car there. I totally accept I was 100% in the wrong - but again if car drivers were trained to not go up the inside of an artic and not cruise in their blind spot stuff like this could be avoided.
Lorry drivers should be a lot more careful. And given my own incompetence I can see why the London windows in doors and other safety stuff is needed. But i truly think both cyclists, car drivers and motorcyclists should be given a lot more education. When I'm on my little motorbike I assume everyone is trying to kill me. And I'm very conservative around lorries knowing their limitations etc. If all drivers had that level of concern there would be far fewer accidents, injuries and fatalities.
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