Caroline Flack

[AJL308]

Cold said:

I've read her statement a couple of times now. Along with the signs of distress there's quite a lot of narcissism and denial coming through those words too.

Definitely. It does make you wonder whether there needs to be some statutory body to regulate certain types of TV show for the protection of those taking part. If you organise a boxing match without proper medical cover and without the fighters being properly licensed by the relevant governing body you could end up in jail. You fly a plane or drive an HGV without some fairly comprehensive medical tests.

[markyb_lcy]

I'm amazed how many people are using their disdain for reality television as cover for their demonisation of the working class.

Does anyone have any evidence at all that these shows are specifically or particularly popular with working class people?

[AJL308]

Digga said:

Exige77 said:

REALIST123 said:

Cold said:

I've read her statement a couple of times now. Along with the signs of distress there's quite a lot of narcissism and denial coming through those words too.

Chronic narcissism and denial are strong threads in the lives of many so called celebrities.

Maybe if they were a little more realistic about their true situations and value to society instead of believing the sycophants who place them on pedestals, they wouldn’t find it so hard to deal with when the truth dawns.

^^^^^This.

All very sad for all involved but it was very much of her own making.

You could say the same about gambling or alcoholism, but it doesn't make things easier for the individual, or the family. External factors are still a catalyst.

They are however a person in that situation cannot simply blame everything on external factors. No one with issues like those, or like she had, is going to get better unless they try to help themselves even if that is only a tiny bit. From her post it seems that she made absolutely no effort to do so.

[Munter]

Petrus1983 said:

Munter said:

On the other hand I favour the more likely options. She's likely had an argument with him, he's gone to bed and she's decided to take revenge upon him because "someone else has to be to blame" for issues in her life. Probably the same issues which were only made worse by hitting him.

You take revenge on someone who’s wronged you - I can’t see where he’s done anything wrong. If this was visa versa he’d be seen as an abusive bully much like the thread about another ph’er. I think it’s very sad she’s chosen this route, but she did make her own bed.

Oh he's probably not actually done anything wrong. But you'd be amazed at what some people will spin in their head to find "who's responsible for this bad thing I'm experiencing". A bit like shooting the messenger.

[AJL308]

Sheepshanks said:

Exige77 said:

It’s partly about being in denial and thinking the world revolves around them.

In the world in which these people exist, it does revolve around them. I suppose the issue is what happens when it stops? They've suddenly got (in their eyes) nothing.

Which is why TV companies should not be making or encouraging the type of trash TV she presented. Same goes for big brands and their social media "Influencers". These things feed the personality disorders of those taking part and of those who watch them. It's all fame and celebrity simply for doing nothing. Katie Price has been mentioned on this thread - she's completely and utterly untalented. She got famous simply for getting her tits out and they were never even attractive tits to begin with. She does nothing actually beneficial for society; she doesn't create works or literature, she doesn't perform by way of acting, music or dance, she doesn't make anything physical and lasting, nothing. She does not actually produce anything of substance. It's the same as everyone who presents or appears on these shows. Had none of them existed we would be no worse off as a society.

[egor110]

Katie price is actually a pretty decent horse rider .

[AJL308]

petemurphy said:

couple of women were talking about this today - i mentioned it would be different if it was a man. the room went quiet.

Indeed. A 40 year old man smashing a lamp into the face of his sleeping 27 year old girlfriend. The media circus would have taken three days just to get into town! He'd have to have been remanded for his own safety.

[Gargamel]

Munter said:

We've got "what". But we don't necessarily know the "why".

He's had a bang to the head and might not be rational. We don't know how he came to have a bang on the head even if CF admits it was by her hands it happened. (I hit my partner on the head with a tree. It wasn't intentional but "it was me what done it guvner".)

On the other hand I favour the more likely options. She's likely had an argument with him, he's gone to bed and she's decided to take revenge upon him because "someone else has to be to blame" for issues in her life. Probably the same issues which were only made worse by hitting him.

Why is also out there,

She looked through his phone whilst he was asleep, and found a series of message to another women she didn’t approve of.

[AJL308]

uk66fastback said:

Jinx said:

darren f said:

If you have mental health issues and problems with low esteem, why would you choose to ‘lay bare’ your life on social media? Everyone knows it is rife with half-wits making idiotic comments under the cloak of anonymity. I’m not surprised she was advised not to post the statement, some of the responses it would have provoked would not have helped her one bit. If you are that fragile, keep away from it FFS.

It's an addiction. Getting likes and positive feedback is addictive - especially to those with low self-esteem.

Very true. I can't bring myself to ever sign up for Twitter - it just seems as though it is full of morons spouting their opinion - why would I care?

I genuinely can't see the reason for it with the exception of commercial promotional reasons. Why on earth does any "private citizen" (for want of a better phrase) need a Twitter account? It just comes over as incredibly arrogant and self-centered.

[bitchstewie]

Twitter isn't the problem it's what some people use it for.

It can be incredibly good or incredibly bad as the events in this thread have highlighted.

[Rewe]

AJL308 said:

uk66fastback said:

Jinx said:

darren f said:

If you have mental health issues and problems with low esteem, why would you choose to ‘lay bare’ your life on social media? Everyone knows it is rife with half-wits making idiotic comments under the cloak of anonymity. I’m not surprised she was advised not to post the statement, some of the responses it would have provoked would not have helped her one bit. If you are that fragile, keep away from it FFS.

It's an addiction. Getting likes and positive feedback is addictive - especially to those with low self-esteem.

Very true. I can't bring myself to ever sign up for Twitter - it just seems as though it is full of morons spouting their opinion - why would I care?

I genuinely can't see the reason for it with the exception of commercial promotional reasons. Why on earth does any "private citizen" (for want of a better phrase) need a Twitter account? It just comes over as incredibly arrogant and self-centered.

Yet you (and I) think nothing of forcing our opinions on here without any invitation.......

[Dr Murdoch]

AJL308 said:

I genuinely can't see the reason for it with the exception of commercial promotional reasons. Why on earth does any "private citizen" (for want of a better phrase) need a Twitter account? It just comes over as incredibly arrogant and self-centered.

To keep up to date with F1 news, local news, football news, rugby news and so on and so forth....

Its not all lefty shouty people or celebrity gossip ste...

[steveatesh]

1602Mark said:

Sad as it is, I have seen and read many similar letters / statements from people that have been perpetrators of domestic abuse. I'm not saying she was an abuser however, her denial is nothing more than that.
Coincidentally I'm doing some courses around Domestic Violence and it's one of the toughest things I've done. Even walking into the classroom, as the only male on this particular course, I feel almost ashamed of my gender. Yes, there are female perpetrators but the majority are male obviously. It's shocking what someone can do to a person that they say they love.

Interesting. To what extent is the training presenting as a genderless issue and emphasising that either sex can be a victim or an offender?

I’m presuming from your comment that the answer is not much (if at all).?

The problem with female perpetrated domestic abuse is that we don’t know the true extent due to men being very reluctant to report it (lack of services, being mocked, chivalry or some other reason).

In addition, yes Male abusers are likely to cause more severe injuries but to what extent are men being injured in other ways by, for example what is now known as coercion and control?

Some research suggests 62% of male suicides under 30 yrs of age are down to relationship issues with intimate partners (https://www.amhf.org.au/research_confirms_5_uncomfortable_facts_about_young_male_suicide)
so the problem is much more nuanced than one partner physically assaulting another.

In addition some studies suggest women are as aggressive or more so than men, eg

“Abstract This annotated bibliography describes 343 scholarly investigations (270 empirical studies and 73 reviews) demonstrating that women are as physically aggressive as men (or more) in their relationships with their spouses or opposite-sex partners. The aggregate sample size in the reviewed studies exceeds 440,850 people” (Sexuality & Culture (2014) 18:405–467 DOI 10.1007/s12119-013-9194-1)

Or this research suggesting women are more likely to be controlling or aggressive as men (Dr Elizabeth Bates)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/relationships/1092...
Commenting upon the research Mark Brooks from the Mankind Initiative commented
"The Government, local authorities and the police must do more to ensure that domestic abuse against men is viewed and treated in exactly the same way as it rightly is for female victims."

Personally I think it will still be a long time before that statement becomes a reality, especially as men are worse than women for in-group support so are less likely to support such a campaign.

At the end of the day domestic abuse isn’t a competition between men and women but I believe we have a long long way to go before the stereotype man = perpetrator woman = victim is no longer the norm.

[Exige77]

markyb_lcy said:

Oakey said:

So which bits do you think are in dispute?

Are you denying the boyfriend phoned 999 and called for help?

Are you denying he said "she cracked my head open"?

Are you denying there's a recording of that 999 call?

Are you denying the officers have bodycam footage?

Are you denying she said "I did it.. I whacked him around the head" then proceeded to demonstrate?

Are you denying she flipped over a table?

The CPS don't prosecute on a whim and wouldn't proceed with a case unless they had evidence they thought was strong enough for a conviction. I suspect her saying "I did it... I whacked him around the head" was enough for them to proceed. Unless you think the police / CPS have made up all of the above?

I'm not denying anything or suggesting anyone made anything up.

There are two sides to every story. Often, both sides can be "correct" (or have bits that are correct) but will offer different insight into a situation.

The prosecuting solicitors job is to seek a prosecution therefore they will not mention anything which mitigates against that.

If you have so much faith in CPS and their solicitor, why bother having a court case at all. Why don't we just throw people in jail as soon as police/CPS have a case they think is worth pursuing?

Really not much point in debating this with you, as you seem to have made your mind up already.

I think the CPS are just quoting facts. They are not in prosecution mode. The facts are supported with video and the 999 call recording.

I’m sure they could put their “Further Spin” on the facts ?

There may be some mitigation stuff which would have been used by the judge to determine sentencing but certainly looks like it would have been a slam dunk for CF. Sure she had best legal advice.

She obviously Didn’t want the evidence played out in court.

[TPSA7514]

Exige77 said:

I think the CPS are just quoting facts. They are not in prosecution mode. The facts are supported with video and the 999 call recording.

I’m sure they could put their “Further Spin” on the facts ?

There may be some mitigation stuff which would have been used by the judge to determine sentencing but certainly looks like it would have been a slam dunk for CF. Sure she had best legal advice.

She obviously Didn’t want the evidence played out in court.

Couldn't she have pleaded guilty and the recordings wouldn't have been played. She would have earned some points for the guilty plea.and I would suspect got a suspended sentence.

[Exige77]

TPSA7514 said:

Exige77 said:

I think the CPS are just quoting facts. They are not in prosecution mode. The facts are supported with video and the 999 call recording.

I’m sure they could put their “Further Spin” on the facts ?

There may be some mitigation stuff which would have been used by the judge to determine sentencing but certainly looks like it would have been a slam dunk for CF. Sure she had best legal advice.

She obviously Didn’t want the evidence played out in court.

Couldn't she have pleaded guilty and the recordings wouldn't have been played. She would have earned some points for the guilty plea.and I would suspect got a suspended sentence.

That would have been the logical thing to do ?

Her brief would have said she has been under a lot of stress recently and was mortified about what happened that night. She’s very sorry and will get some counselling immediately.

It would all have been forgotten very quickly and might have even done her a favour to get some treatment.

All back to normal in 12 months.

ITV would have welcomed back.

[Pan Pan Pan]

Digga said:

Bullett said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

In her condition I wonder if she even considered how devastating her action would be on her family and friends, who would be the ones who would have to live with the consequences?

Often, they actually rationalise it that the family and friends would be better off without them. Rational/logical thought is not high up the agenda.

Quite. There is no rational thought when someone is suffering from a mental health disorder. This by no means absolved them of guilt or responsibility for their actions, but rather merely serves as at least a partial explanation.

Both the above comments, hit the nail on the head, which was why I commented on the idea that a depressed persons world view often contracts right down to a tiny, tiny window, with themselves in the centre of it. in which non logical / irrational notions form the basis of their thinking.
When a depressed person begins to start considering others, rather than just them selves, is very often, when they start getting a bit of perspective back, and start coming out of depression. Unfortunately this doesn't happen to all who get into that unfortunate condition.

[1602Mark]

steveatesh said:

1602Mark said:

Sad as it is, I have seen and read many similar letters / statements from people that have been perpetrators of domestic abuse. I'm not saying she was an abuser however, her denial is nothing more than that.
Coincidentally I'm doing some courses around Domestic Violence and it's one of the toughest things I've done. Even walking into the classroom, as the only male on this particular course, I feel almost ashamed of my gender. Yes, there are female perpetrators but the majority are male obviously. It's shocking what someone can do to a person that they say they love.

Interesting. To what extent is the training presenting as a genderless issue and emphasising that either sex can be a victim or an offender?

I’m presuming from your comment that the answer is not much (if at all).?

The problem with female perpetrated domestic abuse is that we don’t know the true extent due to men being very reluctant to report it (lack of services, being mocked, chivalry or some other reason).

In addition, yes Male abusers are likely to cause more severe injuries but to what extent are men being injured in other ways by, for example what is now known as coercion and control?

Some research suggests 62% of male suicides under 30 yrs of age are down to relationship issues with intimate partners (https://www.amhf.org.au/research_confirms_5_uncomfortable_facts_about_young_male_suicide)
so the problem is much more nuanced than one partner physically assaulting another.

In addition some studies suggest women are as aggressive or more so than men, eg

“Abstract This annotated bibliography describes 343 scholarly investigations (270 empirical studies and 73 reviews) demonstrating that women are as physically aggressive as men (or more) in their relationships with their spouses or opposite-sex partners. The aggregate sample size in the reviewed studies exceeds 440,850 people” (Sexuality & Culture (2014) 18:405–467 DOI 10.1007/s12119-013-9194-1)

Or this research suggesting women are more likely to be controlling or aggressive as men (Dr Elizabeth Bates)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/relationships/1092...
Commenting upon the research Mark Brooks from the Mankind Initiative commented
"The Government, local authorities and the police must do more to ensure that domestic abuse against men is viewed and treated in exactly the same way as it rightly is for female victims."

Personally I think it will still be a long time before that statement becomes a reality, especially as men are worse than women for in-group support so are less likely to support such a campaign.

At the end of the day domestic abuse isn’t a competition between men and women but I believe we have a long long way to go before the stereotype man = perpetrator woman = victim is no longer the norm.

The training I'm doing (DASH) has actually been quite fair and inclusive of both male and female abusers and the specific traits that are more specific to each gender. My own feelings, around being almost ashamed of being a man in such an environment, are more down to my personal feelings and being in a classroom where I am the only male. I should have probably made that more clear. As you say, it isn't a competition but the stereotype exists because male abusers still outnumber female significantly. That shouldn't undermine the seriousness of abuse against males however.

In my experience, the CPS do not proceed without a victim statement unless the evidence is pretty damning. I read of a case where the boyfriend had punched his girlfriend in the face at least 15 times, to the point where she and their baby (who had been in her arms) where both smothered in blood. He was arrested but she refused to make a statement against him. She believed he would change, that he loved her, would only be violent when drunk and had a longstanding mistrust of the Police.

Some weeks later, she met the boyfriend in a pub. They both drank and a row ensued where he attacked her again and severely bit her face. Once again he was arrested and actually remanded in custody. Again she refused to make a statement and despite CCTV and an independent witness, he managed to get the charge down to threatening behaviour! As I said, it's often actually pretty tough to get the CPS to charge DV cases.

[eldar]

egor110 said:

Katie price is actually a pretty decent horse rider .

Yes.

[Murph7355]

eldar said:

egor110 said:

Katie price is actually a pretty decent horse rider .

Yes.

That's a camel.