Caroline Flack
Discussion
1602Mark said:
The training I'm doing (DASH) has actually been quite fair and inclusive of both male and female abusers and the specific traits that are more specific to each gender. My own feelings, around being almost ashamed of being a man in such an environment, are more down to my personal feelings and being in a classroom where I am the only male. I should have probably made that more clear. As you say, it isn't a competition but the stereotype exists because male abusers still outnumber female significantly. That shouldn't undermine the seriousness of abuse against males however.
In my experience, the CPS do not proceed without a victim statement unless the evidence is pretty damning. I read of a case where the boyfriend had punched his girlfriend in the face at least 15 times, to the point where she and their baby (who had been in her arms) where both smothered in blood. He was arrested but she refused to make a statement against him. She believed he would change, that he loved her, would only be violent when drunk and had a longstanding mistrust of the Police.
Some weeks later, she met the boyfriend in a pub. They both drank and a row ensued where he attacked her again and severely bit her face. Once again he was arrested and actually remanded in custody. Again she refused to make a statement and despite CCTV and an independent witness, he managed to get the charge down to threatening behaviour! As I said, it's often actually pretty tough to get the CPS to charge DV cases.
In my experience, the CPS do not proceed without a victim statement unless the evidence is pretty damning. I read of a case where the boyfriend had punched his girlfriend in the face at least 15 times, to the point where she and their baby (who had been in her arms) where both smothered in blood. He was arrested but she refused to make a statement against him. She believed he would change, that he loved her, would only be violent when drunk and had a longstanding mistrust of the Police.
Some weeks later, she met the boyfriend in a pub. They both drank and a row ensued where he attacked her again and severely bit her face. Once again he was arrested and actually remanded in custody. Again she refused to make a statement and despite CCTV and an independent witness, he managed to get the charge down to threatening behaviour! As I said, it's often actually pretty tough to get the CPS to charge DV cases.
Thanks for that, just for your information and thinking by coincidence I came across this reference to DASH yesterday, which suggests that the predicator of domestic murder is suicide ideation rather than previous convictions or levels of substance abuse:
“Of all of the characteristics, suicide ideation appears to be the most over-represented in relation to the general population. Chronic substance abuse, cohabitation and even prior crime against the victim are so widespread and prevalent in the population generally that they would massively over-predict domestic homicide. Suicidal ideation or attempts, however, appear to be much rarer in the population. Thus, a 40% rate of suicidal indication among the male offenders may be the most useful of any of these characteristics in distinguishing people who are much more likely to kill their partners than other offenders.”
And also,
“It is plausible that many more intimate partner homicides might be accurately predicted, and perhaps prevented, with more public investment in obtaining data on suicidal indicators and more proactive treatment of domestic abuse offenders known to suffer suicidal tendencies.”
This is particularly noteworthy as research by the police in Thames Valley and in Dorset have shown that tools such as the Domestic Abuse Stalking and Harassment instrument (DASH) have failed to predict most cases of domestic homicide, see Bridger et al (2017) for details”.
DA is a complex subject with many hidden facets, enjoy your training
Dr Murdoch said:
AJL308 said:
I genuinely can't see the reason for it with the exception of commercial promotional reasons. Why on earth does any "private citizen" (for want of a better phrase) need a Twitter account? It just comes over as incredibly arrogant and self-centered.
To keep up to date with F1 news, local news, football news, rugby news and so on and so forth....Its not all lefty shouty people or celebrity gossip s
te...Exige77 said:
TPSA7514 said:
Exige77 said:
I think the CPS are just quoting facts. They are not in prosecution mode. The facts are supported with video and the 999 call recording.
I’m sure they could put their “Further Spin” on the facts ?
There may be some mitigation stuff which would have been used by the judge to determine sentencing but certainly looks like it would have been a slam dunk for CF. Sure she had best legal advice.
She obviously Didn’t want the evidence played out in court.
Couldn't she have pleaded guilty and the recordings wouldn't have been played. She would have earned some points for the guilty plea.and I would suspect got a suspended sentence.I’m sure they could put their “Further Spin” on the facts ?
There may be some mitigation stuff which would have been used by the judge to determine sentencing but certainly looks like it would have been a slam dunk for CF. Sure she had best legal advice.
She obviously Didn’t want the evidence played out in court.
Her brief would have said she has been under a lot of stress recently and was mortified about what happened that night. She’s very sorry and will get some counselling immediately.
It would all have been forgotten very quickly and might have even done her a favour to get some treatment.
All back to normal in 12 months.
ITV would have welcomed back.
Problem is she wasn’t that talented or that special, harsh as it is, the world of TV is full of younger, prettier models, many of whom are working for peanuts or free as runners to get the next big break as the next Caroline Flack. She was easily replaceable, and at 40 probably knew this. Her next logical move would’ve been a push to become the new Cilla, but unlike Cilla she didn’t have any actual discernible ‘celebrity’ talent to fall back on.
Hence, due to the vacuous nature of her employment, she probably (wrongly) saw this as the sky falling in.
Mojooo said:
I'm not convinced her career would have recovered.
We live in the modern age, she would forever have been held up as an example of a female domestic abuser
Lets not forget a former boyfriend insinuated she had done similar things (maybe not physical but emotional).
And yet Ant McPartlic can drive pissed up, crash his car and be back on telly like nothing has happened in no time at all....We live in the modern age, she would forever have been held up as an example of a female domestic abuser
Lets not forget a former boyfriend insinuated she had done similar things (maybe not physical but emotional).
eccles said:
Mojooo said:
I'm not convinced her career would have recovered.
We live in the modern age, she would forever have been held up as an example of a female domestic abuser
Lets not forget a former boyfriend insinuated she had done similar things (maybe not physical but emotional).
And yet Ant McPartlic can drive pissed up, crash his car and be back on telly like nothing has happened in no time at all....We live in the modern age, she would forever have been held up as an example of a female domestic abuser
Lets not forget a former boyfriend insinuated she had done similar things (maybe not physical but emotional).
eccles said:
And yet Ant McPartlic can drive pissed up, crash his car and be back on telly like nothing has happened in no time at all....
Yes and no.I don't think they could've handled the incident any better and he's come back to the same roles a year or so later. I'm actually hopeful for him, but I suspect his career is vastly more limited now and he owes a lot to Dec. I hope he hasn't read much of what's been on Twitter recently.
Mojooo said:
I'm not convinced her career would have recovered.
We live in the modern age, she would forever have been held up as an example of a female domestic abuser
Lets not forget a former boyfriend insinuated she had done similar things (maybe not physical but emotional).
Interesting isn’t it, my own view is that it would have been swiftly glossed over and not referred to as domestic abuse but a fall out with her b/f and after a short while she would have been rehabilitate and filtered back into the limelight.We live in the modern age, she would forever have been held up as an example of a female domestic abuser
Lets not forget a former boyfriend insinuated she had done similar things (maybe not physical but emotional).
Society is far more forgiving of women criminals than it is men criminals (see Gamma Bias for example)
768 said:
eccles said:
And yet Ant McPartlic can drive pissed up, crash his car and be back on telly like nothing has happened in no time at all....
Yes and no.I don't think they could've handled the incident any better and he's come back to the same roles a year or so later. I'm actually hopeful for him, but I suspect his career is vastly more limited now and he owes a lot to Dec. I hope he hasn't read much of what's been on Twitter recently.
Mojooo said:
I'm not convinced her career would have recovered.
We live in the modern age, she would forever have been held up as an example of a female domestic abuser
Lets not forget a former boyfriend insinuated she had done similar things (maybe not physical but emotional).
The TV company had already publically stated she was welcome back and it was her choice to leave. She was already recording another TV series. We live in the modern age, she would forever have been held up as an example of a female domestic abuser
Lets not forget a former boyfriend insinuated she had done similar things (maybe not physical but emotional).
Her fans didn't accept the accusations and defended her. All the rumours, stories and comments from previous partners have all been dismissed.
Her career would have been fine and probably only raised her profile.
Couple of points on this thread, people saying how self centred the released tweet was-well surely commuting suicide is the ultimate expression of that? It’s a symptom of the problems she was having.
Also people seem to be under the impression she was sacked for her alleged offences-I thought she quit of her own vocation?
Also people seem to be under the impression she was sacked for her alleged offences-I thought she quit of her own vocation?
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Couple of points on this thread, people saying how self centred the released tweet was-well surely commuting suicide is the ultimate expression of that? It’s a symptom of the problems she was having.
Also people seem to be under the impression she was sacked for her alleged offences-I thought she quit of her own vocation?
Jumped, pushed or persuaded?Also people seem to be under the impression she was sacked for her alleged offences-I thought she quit of her own vocation?
I think it’s fair to say it was likely one of those situations where had she not quit of her own accord, she would have been sacked/suspended. Quitting generally looks better than being sacked, unless you have some moral high ground to occupy which she clearly didn’t.
Honestly though, for the purposes of this discussion, does it really matter much?
Honestly though, for the purposes of this discussion, does it really matter much?
markyb_lcy said:
I think it’s fair to say it was likely one of those situations where had she not quit of her own accord, she would have been sacked/suspended. Quitting generally looks better than being sacked, unless you have some moral high ground to occupy which she clearly didn’t.
Honestly though, for the purposes of this discussion, does it really matter much?
You're talking about it. Honestly though, for the purposes of this discussion, does it really matter much?
She quit. The producers openly said she was welcome back.
Mojooo said:
I'm not convinced her career would have recovered.
We live in the modern age, she would forever have been held up as an example of a female domestic abuser
Lets not forget a former boyfriend insinuated she had done similar things (maybe not physical but emotional).
Am not so convinced, I reckon she would have been back on primetime telly in no time at all, after a brief stint in prison, she could have paid her showbiz penance by doing a documentary/ campaign about wimmens rights in prison combined with some therapy on self reflection carried out on social media.We live in the modern age, she would forever have been held up as an example of a female domestic abuser
Lets not forget a former boyfriend insinuated she had done similar things (maybe not physical but emotional).
Then back to normal and her past glossed over.
Mojooo said:
I'm not convinced her career would have recovered.
We live in the modern age, she would forever have been held up as an example of a female domestic abuser
Lets not forget a former boyfriend insinuated she had done similar things (maybe not physical but emotional).
Remember that National Treasure Cheryl Cole/Tweedy/Fernandez-Versini has a conviction for an ABH assault and has managed to rehabilitate herself to the extent that most people have forgotten about it.We live in the modern age, she would forever have been held up as an example of a female domestic abuser
Lets not forget a former boyfriend insinuated she had done similar things (maybe not physical but emotional).
Flack would have almost certainly be fine
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