45th President of the United States, Donald Trump (Vol. 8)

[Jimbeaux]

vonuber said:

Why on earth would I be referring to Belize as opposed to the country of over a billion people, famous charachterised as the jewel in the crown of the Empire?

Sorry, I had used Belize as a good example of British influence, an example you immediately responded to. I assumed you were referring to the indigenous Indians of the location I was discussing. Apologies. Below is a copy of what I am referring to:

Jimbeaux said:

Of course we expanded our influence. All strive to do that. I was mainly crediting the UK for helping bring India into the modern age. I personally experience the betterment that the U.K. brought to Belize on an annual basis.[\Quote]

Vonuber said:

I suspect the Indians do not view it as such.
They were doing fine on their own.[\quote]

[Jimbeaux]

hidetheelephants said:

It appears to be perhaps more infectious but less lethal, from the chinese figures the death toll is 1-2% of serious cases; I don't want to make light of it, even those effects could overwhelm health services if it is spread widely but it isn't exactly Ebola. Not unlike the bird flu/SARS/etc the media are using it for raising revenue rather than telling people about boring facts.

I am with you on that.

[Jimbeaux]

This shows why we distrust government healthcare. Jon Gruber, architect of Obamacare admitting they lied. Scroll down for Gruber video:

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/11...

[gregs656]

Jimbeaux said:

I am sure one could find stories to support either way. I could ask, how many lives would be lost compared to the 68K that was saved because a government bureaucrat decided someone is too expensive to get a procedure, etc. that is not a given of course but it is a counter argument that is out there.

The US healthcare system is not a model anyone else is following because it is expensive and the outcomes are not particularly good. It is not a defensible mode for healthcare. It’s an excellent model if you want to sell medication.

Life expectancy is poor, infant mortality is frankly shocking, vast numbers of people with unmanaged diabetes, high admission rates for preventable diseases, high disease burden etc etc etc

What would stop private healthcare in the US for those who can afford it, in the same way that private healthcare is available in many other countries that offer universal healthcare? The answer is nothing, so you have the best of all worlds.

The healthcare situation in the US must be the best marketing campaign ever I think. Private medical companies incessantly pushing this idea that their way is better and the government are bad. I mentioned the ‘post truth’ nature of the discussion around trump and this is another great example of that, it’s just a lie, but it’s been told often enough and takes advantage of an underlying skepticism well enough that people buy right into it - exactly what Trump has done with the media.

[anonymous-user]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Interesting. That's a big old report to wade through. That graphic doesn't pass the sniff test for one second though. Number of generations it would take... huh? Based on extrapolating current earnings persistence between fathers and sons! Let's just pretend anyone could actually get good generational earnings persistence data from the bottom decile, we're then going to pretend that it is relevant 1, 2... 5 generations from now?

Let's just examine the graphic vs the actual report... "Number of generations it would take for those born in low income families to approach the mean income in their society" vs. "Note: These estimates are simulation-based and intended to be illustrative. They should not be interpreted as giving the precise time that a person from a low-income household will need to reach the average income" - which of course is exactly what it is designed to imply to anyone who CBA to read the whole report. Not excellent at all. Lies, damn lies and statistics. Given your line about debating in good faith I assume you didn't read the report and assumed no one else would either and just thought it was ''excellent'' because it confirmed your own bias?

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 25th February 01:52

[Jimbeaux]

gregs656 said:

The US healthcare system is not a model anyone else is following because it is expensive and the outcomes are not particularly good. It is not a defensible mode for healthcare. It’s an excellent model if you want to sell medication.

Life expectancy is poor, infant mortality is frankly shocking, vast numbers of people with unmanaged diabetes, high admission rates for preventable diseases, high disease burden etc etc etc

What would stop private healthcare in the US for those who can afford it, in the same way that private healthcare is available in many other countries that offer universal healthcare? The answer is nothing, so you have the best of all worlds.

The healthcare situation in the US must be the best marketing campaign ever I think. Private medical companies incessantly pushing this idea that their way is better and the government are bad. I mentioned the ‘post truth’ nature of the discussion around trump and this is another great example of that, it’s just a lie, but it’s been told often enough and takes advantage of an underlying skepticism well enough that people buy right into it - exactly what Trump has done with the media.

I was referring to Sanders’ plan. His would do away with private insurance as an option. Not both worlds. Did you see the video I posted of the Obamacare architect?

[gregs656]

Jimbeaux said:

I was referring to Sanders’ plan. His would do away with private insurance as an option. Not both worlds. Did you see the video I posted of the Obamacare architect?

Not true, it would just prevent private insurance offering duplicate coverage, the same as Medicare does already and how the system works in Canada for example.

[Jimbeaux]

This shows Sanders’ plan goes further than Europe and Canada and is not workable at the level he proposes.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/theres-...

[Countdown]

Jimbeaux said:

This shows why we distrust government healthcare. Jon Gruber, architect of Obamacare admitting they lied. Scroll down for Gruber video:

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/11...

Does that website not seem even little bit “right-wing nut job” to you?

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/townhall/

[Byker28i]

Jimbeaux said:

This shows why we distrust government healthcare. Jon Gruber, architect of Obamacare admitting they lied. Scroll down for Gruber video:

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/11...

Katie Pavlich, trump supporter, Fox new contributor, has a podcast with former trump liar Sean Spicer, climate change denier.
Hardly a good source...

Every argument I've had about healthcare in the US has always been about the cost, how people don't want to pay for others, and how they believe the stories that the NHS doesn't work.
Mind you the same people say that large areas of London are no go areas for the police because of Sharia law...

[Vanden Saab]

Byker28i said:

Jimbeaux said:

This shows why we distrust government healthcare. Jon Gruber, architect of Obamacare admitting they lied. Scroll down for Gruber video:

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/11...

Katie Pavlich, trump supporter, Fox new contributor, has a podcast with former trump liar Sean Spicer, climate change denier.
Hardly a good source...

Are you suggesting the video has been doctored or taken out of context?

Edited to add... I did not snip your post but it shows no edit did you delete and repost it with the addition?

Edited by Vanden Saab on Tuesday 25th February 07:44

[Byker28i]

Huge protests in India during trumps visit, over the new citizenship laws. Protests also over trumps visit

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/25/delh...

7 dead now according to the BBC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-516124...

Probably not the optics trump wanted? He preferred the large crowd welcome, bussed in with over 1000 busses and rewards.

trump will not doubt claim and incredible trade deal, but in reality that isn't going to happen. Both want opposite things. US farmers are desperate to find a new market as they struggle with the fallout from trumps tariff wars, and manufacturers want India to drop their tarriffs. India want more access to US markets and trump to drop tarriffs on their products.

trump wants to address the trade deficit, but thats difficult after trumps tariffs on aluminium and steel imports hit India. Since then there's bit tit for tat retaliation as trump ended preferential tariffs for Indian exports and India responded. Sounds familiar?

The US is India's second-largest trading partner after China and trade in goods and services hit a record $142.6bn in 2018, according to official US data, up from a measly $11.2bn in 1995. Over the same period, the US's goods and services trade deficit with India shot up from $2bn to $25.2bn.

Will trump use the occaision to announce India buying US helicopters? Not sure the deal is done yet but that hasn't stopped trump before
https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/india-buy-26bn-...

[Byker28i]

Stock markets have dropped 3.5% overnight.

Global financial markets saw some of the sharpest falls in years on Monday after a rise in coronavirus cases renewed fears about economic slowdown.
In the US, the Dow Jones and S&P 500 posted their sharpest daily declines since 2018, with the Dow falling 3.5% or more than 1,000 points.
The S&P 500 ended the day 3.3% lower, while the Nasdaq sank 3.7%.
The UK's FTSE 100 share index closed 3.3% lower, the sharpest drop since January 2016.
In Italy, which has seen Europe's worst outbreak of the virus, Milan's stock market plunged nearly 6%.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51612520

remember that trump claimed China were going to be buying an extra $200bn in good this year and I couldn't see it happening as the country shut down through Coronovirus...
There's a lot of goods that China make, especially in the US market



Edit: Why did trump tweet
“The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

There's been suggestions of trump manipulating the stock market, tweeting about tariffs and the market plummets, then a few days later he changes his mind, announces he’s not going through with the tariffs, so the market bounces back...

October: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/10/the-myster...
January: https://www.salon.com/2020/01/26/are-trump-and-his...

Edited by Byker28i on Tuesday 25th February 08:20

[Byker28i]

Jimbeaux said:

Byker28i said:

I suggest the opposite is true, that he is a severe dick, but knows how to work people, a proper grifter, so flatters, encourages, people feel good around him, and he rewards people well, so they feel grateful.
Just look at how many people he has ruined, get too greedy, discarded to protect trump, yet some are still prepared to take that bullet.

Perhaps you misread. I said I would not work for him in response to the poster’s question.
In response to your description, sounds like a boss that gets people to do what he wants. Probably every world leader with any time under his belt.

Edited by Jimbeaux on Monday 24th February 22:14

It was more as a response to "I have no idea as I (nor you) know how he really is. Forced to guess, I would suspect he is a severe dick.."

Based on anecdotal evidence, it appears that if you are on the periphery then he has an attractive personality to some people and he knows how to use that. I would say as a positive for him that he's a gifted communicator, can turn on the charm, which is why people like him, why he's managed to get loans and deals, why he knows exactly what to say to his base, you've only got to see his rallys to understand that.

Again based on anecdotal evidence, it seems that when you get close, you find out his real personality...

[Byker28i]

Carl_Manchester said:

Byker28i said:

Aparently, Trump has told advisers that he does not want the administration to do or say anything regarding the Coronavirus outbreak that would further spook the markets. He remains worried that any large-scale outbreak could hurt his reelection bid.

Dubya was lucky that his second black swan arrived right at the tail-end of his 8 year stint. It will be interesting to watch Trump over the next months as to his response as it is something he can't control which may affect the whole country, probably for the first time?

President Donald Trump’s top aides faced an increasingly urgent threat Monday with potentially monumental implications: a global outbreak knocking down the U.S. economy and walloping markets in an election year, all against accusations about whether the Trump administration had mismanaged and underfunded a critical response with American lives on the line.

“The view in the White House is that this is one of those classic black swan events, and all we can do is control the health issues in the U.S.,” said Stephen Moore, an informal economic adviser to the Trump team.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/24/trump-thr...

[Byker28i]

Acting Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security, Ken Cuccinelli

Acting Deputy Secretary Ken Cuccinelli
@HomelandKen
Has the Johns Hopkins map of the coronavirus stopped working for other people, or just me? https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboa...
7:35 PM · Feb 24, 2020

Not using US Govt resources, but an online map?


When commented on it

Acting Deputy Secretary Ken Cuccinelli
@HomelandKen

For some of you who have commented on the subject, I do have the benefit of CDC's data. Obviously, my view is the more sources the better. I also appreciate the easy access to non-China country data.

[AW111]

One concern about the Trump administration is the number of "acting heads" of major agencies.

It's been argued that it's Trump's way of avoiding oversight / appointment hearings, but whatever the reason it's not a good situation.

[Byker28i]

Gameface said:

paulguitar said:

NoNeed said:

Massive crowds welcome Trump to India, as they recognise a great leader

Oh, who has gone there with trump then?

Remember this a country where the crowds at weddings can lead to hundreds dying in stampedes.

Crowds are not unusual in India.

This video shows empty seats and people leaving as trump rambled.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1232013915967631361

1000 busses to bring the crowd in is an impressive feat. Wonder where they parked them all?

[Byker28i]

Rush Limbaugh: “It looks like the coronavirus is being weaponized as yet another element to bring down Donald Trump. Now, I want to tell you the truth about the coronavirus. ... The coronavirus is the common cold, folks.”

https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2020/02/24/over...

[Vanden Saab]

Byker28i said:

Gameface said:

paulguitar said:

NoNeed said:

Massive crowds welcome Trump to India, as they recognise a great leader

Oh, who has gone there with trump then?

Remember this a country where the crowds at weddings can lead to hundreds dying in stampedes.

Crowds are not unusual in India.

This video shows empty seats and people leaving as trump rambled.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1232013915967631361

1000 busses to bring the crowd in is an impressive feat. Wonder where they parked them all?

May be they had a bus to catch...