45th President of the United States, Donald Trump (Vol. 8)

[Jimbeaux]

Escapegoat said:

Magic 8 Ball says: ... they won't answer such a direct question with a direct answer.

The BS that "all politicians lie" is an especially obvious red herring. It's true in the same way that (as this is a car enthusiasts' forum) "everyone speeds" is an appropriate defence to being caught doing 150mph on the M25 for the 1000th time.

The difference is that not all do speed on the M25 but all politicians do lie.

[Seventy]

Jimbeaux said:

California revenues were down 20% under Obama and have increased by 50% under Trump.

Source please Jim.

[Seventy]

Jimbeaux said:

That is why approximately 80% of us here distrust media in general.

Source please Jim.

[Seventy]

Hey, Mr Barr, care to comment??

[hidetheelephants]

NoNeed said:

Byker28i said:

Rush Limbaugh: “It looks like the coronavirus is being weaponized as yet another element to bring down Donald Trump. Now, I want to tell you the truth about the coronavirus. ... The coronavirus is the common cold, folks.”

https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2020/02/24/over...

Partially correct the world health organization says

WHO said:

Coronaviruses (CoV) are a large family of viruses that cause illness ranging from the common cold to more severe diseases such as Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS-CoV) and Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS-CoV). A novel coronavirus (nCoV) is a new strain that has not been previously identified in humans.

No, what the WHO have pointed out is that the common cold is a sub set of Coronavirus. COVID-19 is not a common cold. Limbaugh is wrong in fact, something he has a track record of.

Jimbeaux said:

Yes, perhaps so. What is more concerning is someone who is “counting lies” or what debatable sources call lies. There is unhealthy obsession at work there.
That is akin to claiming someone pinched off an abnormally low number of turds over 985 days therefore it is suspected that his fiber intake is in question.

If I may be forgiven the scatalogical theme, it's interesting that you've chosen to compare trump's world-beating performance in having lies come out of his mouth and from his twitter account to the stool production rate of a hypothetical person who may or may not have a diet lacking in fibre. Trump is famous, or perhaps infamous, for his terrible diet.

Jimbeaux said:

If you think so. Should we let the most food producing farms in the country go dry? $54 billion fall out of that state’s economy?

A strawman? Oh dear. California has a troubled relationship with water, it's a massive problem to solve and there will need to be co-operation on the part of all parties to prevent drought and further irreparable damage to the water table.

[Electro1980]

Jimbeaux said:

Escapegoat said:

Magic 8 Ball says: ... they won't answer such a direct question with a direct answer.

The BS that "all politicians lie" is an especially obvious red herring. It's true in the same way that (as this is a car enthusiasts' forum) "everyone speeds" is an appropriate defence to being caught doing 150mph on the M25 for the 1000th time.

I could respond by belittling you quoting the NYT as you would me if I quoted Fox. Both are equally biased. It’s hard to know isn’t it? That is why approximately 80% of us here distrust media in general.

1) NYT is left wing, but regarded as mostly factual and accurate. Not something that can be said of Fox.
2) Even if they were both the same this remains a provable fact. Where is your counter evidence?

I can only assume this is an attempt to divert from the fact that Trump is proven to lie again and again. He lies constantly and this is a very frightening trait in a world leader.

Now, can you answer the question, either show that Trump does not lie any more than other presidents or say you are happy with his lies.

[rscott]

Vanden Saab said:

zbc said:

Vanden Saab said:

Electro1980 said:

Jimbeaux said:

paulguitar said:

Probably not, on the basis that is was not thought necessary.

It must have just come into fashion then.

Maybe, but lots of people have since done analysis. It shows exactly the same. Trump lies on a constant basis. Most days there is a very clear provable lie. With Obama there was around 20 in 8 years.

Not only that but Trump continues to repeat lies even after they have become public, not only that but doubles down on the lie. Obama, and Bush before him, either stopped repeating proven lies or corrected them.

Edited by Electro1980 on Tuesday 25th February 17:08

20?.....

I'm presuming this is a joke? Do I need a parrot? This is a self published book of nonsense and includes facts such as Obama failing to close Guantanamo bay. Yes it was disappointing that he did but certainly not a lie or really "lawbreaking, corruption, cronyism, hypocrisy, waste" as far as I can see.

It seemed relevant when the poster was suggesting that a politician had only told 2 and a half lies per year for 8 years.... Do you actually think that is true? If so I have a bridge I could sell you...

Well the 1,375 figure mentioned in the original blog post ( https://danfromsquirrelhill.wordpress.com/2013/08/... ) includes claims about events before Obama even became president and other wild claims with no real connection to him.
For example:-

6) Supported the $700 billion TARP corporate-welfare bailout just like Bush - this referred to how Obama voted when a senator (not president)
17) Ordered private company to fire 1,000 employees - it was actually the Labor Board which told Boeing to shut down their non-union factory because it was unlawful retaliation against employees.
27) Falsely claimed to believe in public education - apparently because he sent his children to private school, it means he doesn't support public schools?
29) Shut down Amish farm - the FDA shut down a farm selling raw milk.

[Escapegoat]

Jimbeaux said:

Escapegoat said:

Magic 8 Ball says: ... they won't answer such a direct question with a direct answer.

The BS that "all politicians lie" is an especially obvious red herring. It's true in the same way that (as this is a car enthusiasts' forum) "everyone speeds" is an appropriate defence to being caught doing 150mph on the M25 for the 1000th time.

I could respond by belittling you quoting the NYT as you would me if I quoted Fox. Both are equally biased. It’s hard to know isn’t it? That is why approximately 80% of us here distrust media in general.

Another squirrel, now trying to shift this to media from politicians. Why? Because it helps you to avoid talking about the Liar-in-Chief.

Here you go:



Guess which one is DJT...

[Carl_Manchester]

Electro1980 said:

Now, can you answer the question, either show that Trump does not lie any more than other presidents or say you are happy with his lies.

Trumps support base are happy because he will lie for them and exert pressure for them based on bending the facts and the rule book, it was part of the deal. You need someone who is dirty to fight in the mud.

Proving whether he lies more or less is not a fair question as it’s not answerable, nobody has a way of accurately answering it, it’s a little like the Seven Bridges of Königsberg.

[paulguitar]

paulguitar said:

My apologies Jim, I did not make myself clear.

I did not imagine for a moment that you would have believed the lie, what I am curious about is what you thought of trump’s lie campaign? From my point of view, it was then that I realized that trump was very much worse than merely unpleasant, he was also totally amoral. Did it not bother you to see him campaigning on something he clearly knew was simply untrue, and making up stories about ‘teams of investigators’ who ‘cannot believe what they are finding’, etc, etc…?

Any thoughts on this, Jim?

[paulguitar]

Vanden Saab said:

20?.....

I have just spent a few minutes reading through this list, which is something I am going to guess you did not do!

It's ridiculous. I presume you typed something like 'bad things Obama did' into Google and this popped up, but it does your case no favours at all to post this.

Edited by paulguitar on Tuesday 25th February 22:51

[Jimbeaux]

Seventy said:

Source please Jim.

Source? The Gruber video that was posted twice. It is embedded in the link

[Jimbeaux]

hidetheelephants said:

A strawman? Oh dear. California has a troubled relationship with water, it's a massive problem to solve and there will need to be co-operation on the part of all parties to prevent drought and further irreparable damage to the water table.

Absolutely it does. There is plenty of it in the reservoir. So, while waiting for a long term solution from the state to initiate, we are to let the largest farming state, generating $54 billion dry up???

[Jimbeaux]

Electro1980 said:

1) NYT is left wing, but regarded as mostly factual and accurate. Not something that can be said of Fox.

Really? Is this is where I ask for your source that the NYTs is mostly factual. Bullst.

[Jimbeaux]

Escapegoat said:

Another squirrel, now trying to shift this to media from politicians. Why? Because it helps you to avoid talking about the Liar-in-Chief.

Here you go:



Guess which one is DJT...

Are you being simple? The media is left leaning; they back certain left leaning politicians. They even announce official endorsements. What is the mystery in the connection?

[Jimbeaux]

Carl_Manchester said:

Trumps support base are happy because he will lie for them and exert pressure for them based on bending the facts and the rule book, it was part of the deal. You need someone who is dirty to fight in the mud.

Proving whether he lies more or less is not a fair question as it’s not answerable, nobody has a way of accurately answering it, it’s a little like the Seven Bridges of Königsberg.

Well Electro must have that special power. He claims that one source A is crap because B said so, etc. It is what you said, an unprovable circle of opinion.

[anonymous-user]

Carl_Manchester said:

Proving whether he lies more or less is not a fair question as it’s not answerable, nobody has a way of accurately answering it, it’s a little like the Seven Bridges of Königsberg.

Woah. This one’s a long way down the rabbit hole.

Proving that proposition is precisely nothing like a topographical problem that Euler proved can’t be solved. But if you like to prove your fanbois credentials by pretending to everyone that Trump has an entirely normal relationship with the truth, go right ahead.

[Jimbeaux]

paulguitar said:

Any thoughts on this, Jim?

I had no way of knowing until later I chose to believe the state claim. No. As I said, it was political fighting. It happens. There are likely lies peddled from the other side. It’s dirty, all of it. I have said, too many times, on here that we bypass all of the dirt and mud slinging that is part of politics and judge by deeds as they relate to our national interests. We will decide if he has done so on 3 November.

Edited by Jimbeaux on Tuesday 25th February 23:41

[paulguitar]

Jimbeaux said:

paulguitar said:

Any thoughts on this, Jim?

I had no way of knowing until later I chose to believe the state claim. No. As I said, it was political fighting. It happens. There are likely lies peddled from the other side. It’s dirty, all of it. I have said, too many times, on here that we bypass all of the dirt and mud slinging that is part of politics and judge by deeds as they relate to our national interests. We will decide if he has done so on 3 November. Meanwhile, there isn’t much for you to do here but try to out do one another with your latest mining of the media universe for all things Trump bashing. Boring to be honest. However, it does have elements of entertainment value.

Edited by Jimbeaux on Tuesday 25th February 23:28

I’m sorry this is boring for you, seems somewhat odd you're the most prolific poster here if so!

I see the birtherism campaign very differently. To me that was not ‘politics as usual’ at all. I was amazed at the time that anyone would openly go about publicly smearing someone else (never mind the POTUS!) whilst knowing full well they were simply making it all up. I watched several interviews with trump at the time and the sheer obviousness of his lies was really transparent, but the truly sad part was that so many people really wanted to believe it, and some actually still do.

This is very relevant because his unfitness for any kind of elected position surely seemed clear after that. Now we see countless examples of lies and misinformation. Only yesterday, he posted a staggeringly irresponsible Tweet about Coronavirus. He lies pathologically, and sometimes about really important stuff.

[Jimbeaux]

paulguitar said:

I’m sorry this is boring for you, seems somewhat odd you're the most prolific poster here if so!

I see the birtherism campaign very differently. To me that was not ‘politics as usual’ at all. I was amazed at the time that anyone would openly go about publicly smearing someone else (never mind the POTUS!) whilst knowing full well they were simply making it all up. I watched several interviews with trump at the time and the sheer obviousness of his lies was really transparent, but the truly sad part was that so many people really wanted to believe it, and some actually still do.

This is very relevant because his unfitness for any kind of elected position surely seemed clear after that. Now we see countless examples of lies and misinformation. Only yesterday, he posted a staggeringly irresponsible Tweet about Coronavirus. He lies pathologically, and sometimes about really important stuff.

I suppose boring is not accurate; tedious is a better adjective.
I understand your view. That “unfitness you see for public office” is based upon things that really don’t equate, in many opinions, to the national self interest realm. Just a disagreement.