Home Secretary announces points-based immigration system

[citizensm1th]

pequod said:

The assumption that Eastern European youngsters love working in the fields, wiping the backsides of our elderly, and packing/picking for Amazon is, quite frankly, laughable.

For millennia, people have moved to a more financially advantageous place to work and live, the 21st Century is no different.

The current EU workers will go elsewhere in the EU and will be supplanted by others from elsewhere in the world who will see the UK as an opportunity, probably S Asia or maybe SE, and trade, along with business, will adapt and continue.

but do pray tell us which social care company is going to pay 26,500 for someone to wipe your mums arse?

as that is the figure priti vacant was telling us this morning was the minimum pay to get a visa to the uk let alone pay that for packing your rocket salad?

it is a fking stupid idea that will be watered down as soon as reality bites boris and his cabinet on the arse

[eldar]

Mrr T said:

Immigrants working on farms and in care home tend not to have children so in work benefits will be minimal.

They often do have children in their home country, and can claim benefits here for them, depending on country.

[TriumphStag3.0V8]

citizensm1th said:

but do pray tell us which social care company is going to pay 26,500 for someone to wipe your mums arse?

as that is the figure priti vacant was telling us this morning was the minimum pay to get a visa to the uk let alone pay that for packing your rocket salad?

it is a fking stupid idea that will be watered down as soon as reality bites boris and his cabinet on the arse

Frankly I would be quite happy for care workers to be paid that. The adverts I have seen and the costs of looking after my mom were far far higher so someone is making money at the moment.

[Elysium]

citizensm1th said:

milkround said:

As an HGV driver who has delivered to and collected from loads of Amazon distribution centres I can assure you that they are not a good example of automation. The absolute opposite. The small farm does much better with staffing levels.

A small company will have the farmer or one member of staff offload a lorry or load it. That same person will sign any paperwork and sort it all.

How many people do you think I need to interact with at Amazon to get tipped? FYI they even employ people to simple come and collect paperwork and keys as apposed to handing them over to an office bod. 20/30 members of staff whos job is just to walk you to and from your lorry.

Unsurprisingly they keep the cool toys away from areas where truckers can stick their grubby fingers in,any occupation where warehouse staff have to remove the truck keys from them so they don't drive off of the bays before they have been unloaded would never be exposed to something as complicated as an automated warehouse.

i guess the 20/30 staff employed to walk you to and from your truck are there to make sure you don't injure yourself or someone else.

BTW before you go looking for your prostitute bashing hammer i am a HGV driver trainer by trade with a side line in transport management consulting and i am pulling your leg.

Amazon already use robots in the UK:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSA5Bq-1fU4

And Ocado's grid system is fascinating:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DKrcpa8Z_E

I have no doubt that we will see more automation. There is already a labour shortage in these industries.

[citizensm1th]

TriumphStag3.0V8 said:

citizensm1th said:

but do pray tell us which social care company is going to pay 26,500 for someone to wipe your mums arse?

as that is the figure priti vacant was telling us this morning was the minimum pay to get a visa to the uk let alone pay that for packing your rocket salad?

it is a fking stupid idea that will be watered down as soon as reality bites boris and his cabinet on the arse

Frankly I would be quite happy for care workers to be paid that. The adverts I have seen and the costs of looking after my mom were far far higher so someone is making money at the moment.

I fully agree but util the government get a grip on the industry they will not pay the careers anything close to that

[anonymous-user]

My favourite bit of Nick Ferrari interviewing Priti Patel was when Nick pointed out that under the proposed immigration, neither his parents nor her parents would have been allowed into the UK.

You could almost hear her brain melting slightly at the concept of that.

“ Your parents I understand came from Uganda and were very successful in setting up a newsagents, they wouldn't have qualified, would they? You wouldn't actually be here Home Secretary. I don't think I'd be here and I sense you wouldn't.

I wouldn't be sitting in this studio and you wouldn't be Home Secretary in one of the biggest offices in the land under your system."

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 19th February 20:38

[citizensm1th]

Elysium said:

Amazon already use robots in the UK:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSA5Bq-1fU4

And Ocado's grid system is fascinating:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DKrcpa8Z_E

I have no doubt that we will see more automation. There is already a labour shortage in these industries.

really? wow i never knew that,let alone did not write a post about it in this very thread with a map and a video of amazons automated fulfilment centre

[Elysium]

Lord Marylebone said:

My favourite bit of Nick Ferrari interviewing Priti Patel was when Nick pointed out that under the proposed immigration, neither his parents nor her parents would have been allowed into the UK.

You could almost hear her brain melting slightly at the concept of that.

I am sure she had already considered that. It is simply that she has decided to sell what remains of her soul for a taste of power.

[frisbee]

citizensm1th said:

but do pray tell us which social care company is going to pay 26,500 for someone to wipe your mums arse?

as that is the figure priti vacant was telling us this morning was the minimum pay to get a visa to the uk let alone pay that for packing your rocket salad?

it is a fking stupid idea that will be watered down as soon as reality bites boris and his cabinet on the arse

If they have a PhD in arse wiping then they should easily achieve the required points to come to the UK and fill this low paid job.

All hail the glorious Conservatives!

[pequod]

citizensm1th said:

but do pray tell us which social care company is going to pay 26,500 for someone to wipe your mums arse?

as that is the figure priti vacant was telling us this morning was the minimum pay to get a visa to the uk let alone pay that for packing your rocket salad?

it is a fking stupid idea that will be watered down as soon as reality bites boris and his cabinet on the arse

As and when it happens, I will be the one paying for a carer of my choosing from wherever in the world they come, to look after my elderly parent in my stead to give me an occasional break. Are you OK with that, comrade, or would you prefer I dump her into social care and leave it to the council to provide this service? Equality and all that!

Do I believe care workers, fruit pickers, etc should earn a reasonable wage, well of course, and I suspect most people would think the same. Whether that is £26.5k pa (pro rata) and whether that would encourage our younger generation to go into those jobs, we have yet to test but there are many around the world who would.

[Elysium]

citizensm1th said:

Elysium said:

Amazon already use robots in the UK:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSA5Bq-1fU4

And Ocado's grid system is fascinating:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DKrcpa8Z_E

I have no doubt that we will see more automation. There is already a labour shortage in these industries.

really? wow i never knew that,let alone did not write a post about it in this very thread with a map and a video of amazons automated fulfilment centre

Which I read and then added to because your post and the video referred to conventional automation, rather than robotics.

So I agreed with you and added further evidence.

Have a back yourself

Edited by Elysium on Wednesday 19th February 20:43

[citizensm1th]

pequod said:

As and when it happens, I will be the one paying for a carer of my choosing from wherever in the world they come, to look after my elderly parent in my stead to give me an occasional break. Are you OK with that, comrade, or would you prefer I dump her into social care and leave it to the council to provide this service? Equality and all that!

Do I believe care workers, fruit pickers, etc should earn a reasonable wage, well of course, and I suspect most people would think the same. Whether that is £26.5k pa (pro rata) and whether that would encourage our younger generation to go into those jobs, we have yet to test but there are many around the world who would.

If you can afford to pay someone 26.500 a year you will be able to sponsor someones visa no commercial care company will do that at the moment under the current funding model for care.

[crankedup]

s1962a said:

whilst I still have my marbles and dignity in my old age, i wouldnt mind operating a robot via remote control to lift me up and change me etc etc rather than a human being - if i can swear at an alexa type machine and have some food delivered to me, even better. Obviously if i've lost all my faculties then it doesn't really matter who or what does it - I probably wouldn't be in a position to care

Let me cheer you up, within a very few years lifelike robots will be able to ‘assist’ and help you in so many ways!,

[crankedup]

Condi said:

crankedup said:

We need to fast track innovations into robotics in agriculture and soft fruits, that’s currently ongoing in development. Never though a machine could crop strawberries without damaging the product? it’s almost ready for market.
.

Such things already exist in Japan, but despite all their innovation and experience with technology their economy is suffering from the aging population and low labour force. They are finding that some things simply can't be done by robot, no matter how advanced the technology is.

Look through history and every successful civilisation has had access to cheap labour. No doubt that is changing as technology improves, but historically has been shown to be true. I think a lot of hope and trust is being placed in technology, which is fine, but when we can import goods abroad cheaper, because they are using cheap labour, then the companies here are not going to have the money or confidence to invest.

Edited by Condi on Wednesday 19th February 15:46

Yes I won’t be disagreeing with you at all, but my point is tech’ marches on. That marching on is gathering a faster pace on a continued basis.
Also I have always advocated that the U.K. cannot compete on price alone, this is why we are leaving the low pay economy behind and start concentrating even more heavily on what we do best.
Believe it or not our output is mostly about brand and quality, highly regarded in the Asian. Sooner or later somebody cheaper comes along and steals your market. To continue on the lowest price wins is very short term economics and can leave you stranded.

[DeepEnd]

Lord Marylebone said:

My favourite bit of Nick Ferrari interviewing Priti Patel was when Nick pointed out that under the proposed immigration, neither his parents nor her parents would have been allowed into the UK.

You could almost hear her brain melting slightly at the concept of that.

“ Your parents I understand came from Uganda and were very successful in setting up a newsagents, they wouldn't have qualified, would they? You wouldn't actually be here Home Secretary. I don't think I'd be here and I sense you wouldn't.

I wouldn't be sitting in this studio and you wouldn't be Home Secretary in one of the biggest offices in the land under your system."

Edited by Lord Marylebone on Wednesday 19th February 20:38

I struggle not to see the “pull up the ladder we used” brigade as rather selfish.

Just seems to lack decency.

[Zarco]

citizensm1th said:

milkround said:

As an HGV driver who has delivered to and collected from loads of Amazon distribution centres I can assure you that they are not a good example of automation. The absolute opposite. The small farm does much better with staffing levels.

A small company will have the farmer or one member of staff offload a lorry or load it. That same person will sign any paperwork and sort it all.

How many people do you think I need to interact with at Amazon to get tipped? FYI they even employ people to simple come and collect paperwork and keys as apposed to handing them over to an office bod. 20/30 members of staff whos job is just to walk you to and from your lorry.

Unsurprisingly they keep the cool toys away from areas where truckers can stick their grubby fingers in,any occupation where warehouse staff have to remove the truck keys from them so they don't drive off of the bays before they have been unloaded would never be exposed to something as complicated as an automated warehouse.

i guess the 20/30 staff employed to walk you to and from your truck are there to make sure you don't injure yourself or someone else.

BTW before you go looking for your prostitute bashing hammer i am a HGV driver trainer by trade with a side line in transport management consulting and i am pulling your leg.

[markcoznottz]

nikaiyo2 said:

When I was at college 1999-2000 ish I worked in a salad packing factory, the work was awful, boring and in a giant fridge. I am sure we got £9PH and £12.00PH after midnight.
The same place was advertising for staff a few months back, the wages were LOWER than when I worked there.

Biggest con job ever, mass immigration. Some posters see that as xenophobic etc, when it's simple economics. Even the minimum/living wage can't protect, as companies just use agency or zhc.

[Murph7355]

Lord Marylebone said:

My favourite bit of Nick Ferrari interviewing Priti Patel was when Nick pointed out that under the proposed immigration, neither his parents nor her parents would have been allowed into the UK.

You could almost hear her brain melting slightly at the concept of that.

“ Your parents I understand came from Uganda and were very successful in setting up a newsagents, they wouldn't have qualified, would they? You wouldn't actually be here Home Secretary. I don't think I'd be here and I sense you wouldn't.

I wouldn't be sitting in this studio and you wouldn't be Home Secretary in one of the biggest offices in the land under your system."

The most surprising thing to me about this sort of thing is that these people are so ill equipped to deal with the question.

The simple answer is that many, many things are different now to 30-50yrs ago, and government needs to adapt to changing circumstances. That we have become stale over the last 20yrs is what needs to be changed. And change it will be.

[Grrbang]

JagLover said:

Successful modern economies have had productivity rises and real wage growth. We have had little of either since the age of cheap labour began .

Yes, there is a correlation, but is it causal?

Nay:
https://voxeu.org/article/new-evidence-economics-i...

Yay (for low skilled workers):
https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/46...

I am more convinced by the large body of primary research supporting a positive effect of migration on productivity (wages), regardless of skill but particularly highly skilled jobs. That is, productivity would be even worse if not for open borders. There are several reasons for my opinion. It’s a relationship that has been found globally and also reproduced when studying the UK, by proper academic research across independent institutions. Further, although immigration watch raises some potentially valid critiques, they seem to be speculative as they haven’t cited any primary research. Is there any high quality research I may have missed?

[Leylandeye]

Time will show the eventual impact of this policy. The subject is far too complex to be able to arrive at any worthwhile conclusion from simple analysis.

I suspect that the full impact of this will probably go much further than intended just as previous policies have.

The availability of low paid low skilled workers has no doubt kept many of those jobs at minimum wage. I wonder how much lower those wage levels would have been without minimum wage.

An unintended consequence of a restrictive policy may be to deter skilled labour too though as the policy is aggressive and unwelcoming even though that skilled labour is needed and wanted.

Interesting times lie ahead.