Home Secretary announces points-based immigration system
Discussion
powerstroke said:
Stay in Bed Instead said:
amusingduck said:
That's exactly what it means
Why are you paid more than a barista? Moral reasons?
I wouldn't wipe someones arse for £100,000 pa.Why are you paid more than a barista? Moral reasons?
Does that make the job worth more than £100,000 pa?
There are a lot of people being paid far more than they are worth because ??
Then interventions from Unions comes into play.
Then conditions of work.
Then all the rest of the s
te on top like H&S.Glad I’m retired!!
Mrr T said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I haven't read thru the thread, so forgive me if this point has been made, but Priti Vacant has said that unemployed British citizens can be trained up to do the jobs of foreign unskilled workers. Which begs the question, if the jobs are unskilled, why would they need training up?
It seems to me unskilled is a rather insulting term for low paid, and the 2 are very different. I couldn't change 20 king sized duvet covers on my own in an hour, it takes me 20 mins to do my own! And then I find it's inside out! Or the fking cat is in it.
I think the passage of time will show that many of these unskilled jobs are actually quite highly skilled, and we will struggle to find people who are prepared to learn the skill set for the money on offer.
Is that the same Priti Vacant who is leading the war on counter terrorism? It seems to me unskilled is a rather insulting term for low paid, and the 2 are very different. I couldn't change 20 king sized duvet covers on my own in an hour, it takes me 20 mins to do my own! And then I find it's inside out! Or the f
king cat is in it. I think the passage of time will show that many of these unskilled jobs are actually quite highly skilled, and we will struggle to find people who are prepared to learn the skill set for the money on offer.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I haven't read thru the thread, so forgive me if this point has been made, but Priti Vacant has said that unemployed British citizens can be trained up to do the jobs of foreign unskilled workers. Which begs the question, if the jobs are unskilled, why would they need training up?
It seems to me unskilled is a rather insulting term for low paid, and the 2 are very different. I couldn't change 20 king sized duvet covers on my own in an hour, it takes me 20 mins to do my own! And then I find it's inside out! Or the fking cat is in it.
I think the passage of time will show that many of these unskilled jobs are actually quite highly skilled, and we will struggle to find people who are prepared to learn the skill set for the money on offer.
I agree to a point regarding the terminology, but then it’s a broad brush cover it all term.Unskilled,It seems to me unskilled is a rather insulting term for low paid, and the 2 are very different. I couldn't change 20 king sized duvet covers on my own in an hour, it takes me 20 mins to do my own! And then I find it's inside out! Or the f
king cat is in it. I think the passage of time will show that many of these unskilled jobs are actually quite highly skilled, and we will struggle to find people who are prepared to learn the skill set for the money on offer.
low skilled,skilled, high skills,the list keeps growing.
Regarding training, I think it’s more to do with H&S in workplace, Induction and the like.On top the worker has likely the fundamental knowledge of how to complete the given task(s) required.
crankedup said:
It’s very simply ‘supply and demand’ that regulates the market. If the supply is dry at £10 then it has to be upped to £11.
Then interventions from Unions comes into play.
Then conditions of work.
Then all the rest of the ste on top like H&S.
Glad I’m retired!!
The supply is drying up because of government actions, not because of unwilling workers.Then interventions from Unions comes into play.
Then conditions of work.
Then all the rest of the s
te on top like H&S.Glad I’m retired!!
This will mean our cost of living will rise.
JagLover said:
FiF said:
One observation I encountered yesterday.
2015-2019 There is absolutely no evidence that wages have been depressed by migration of low skilled workers.
Same person now says
2020 Well you're going to have to pay more for your coffee because of proposed immigration system.
2015-2019 There is absolutely no evidence that wages have been depressed by migration of low skilled workers.
Same person now says
2020 Well you're going to have to pay more for your coffee because of proposed immigration system.
Even more fun if you spot how many who are supposedly "left wing" who denounce this measure that might potentially raises wages for the low paid.
Same with Boris’s spending plans where conservatives here are praising ending austerity and investing in social services and infrastructure and more left wing posters are taking about magic money trees.
The parties could adopt each other’s manifesto and people would automatically support their own new policies and vehemently criticise the other.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: As an aside I heard a stat yesterday that 1 in 50 Pret applicants are British.
That isn't the people getting jobs that's people applying for jobs.
If the mythical 8m aren’t applying today, they won’t in the coming yearsThat isn't the people getting jobs that's people applying for jobs.
Unless they up the wages, which in turn will make that £3 cup of froth cost £4
Whilst simultaneously sabotaging industry, reducing the customer base with disposable income.
Interesting times ahead
Jimboka said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: As an aside I heard a stat yesterday that 1 in 50 Pret applicants are British.
That isn't the people getting jobs that's people applying for jobs.
If the mythical 8m aren’t applying today, they won’t in the coming yearsThat isn't the people getting jobs that's people applying for jobs.
Unless they up the wages, which in turn will make that £3 cup of froth cost £4
Whilst simultaneously sabotaging industry, reducing the customer base with disposable income.
Interesting times ahead
rscott said:
ONS figures seem to suggest there's around 1m of Patel's 8.1m actually available to do take these jobs:-
Students 2.3m
Long-term sick 2.1m
Carers (unpaid) 1.9m
Retired 1.1m
Temporarily Sick 160,000
other 947,000
For the record, Patel comes across as thick as sStudents 2.3m
Long-term sick 2.1m
Carers (unpaid) 1.9m
Retired 1.1m
Temporarily Sick 160,000
other 947,000
t to me. She's not someone I would have in cabinet.But why only 1m of those? Large numbers can hide a multitude of sins.
Examples...
- students : anecdotally I had a couple of jobs when I was a student...evenings and summer work. So that 2.3m isn't "incapable" of working. Especially where work is seasonal
- long term sick : minefield for us all that one...but more context on that would be interesting. I'd like to see how those numbers have evolved over time. There will undoubtedly be some who absolutely cannot work in that group. I remain cynical about the scale of it (again, partly down to anecdotal experience of a distant family member)
- carers : fair dos. One assumes these are actually easing the demand burden
- retired : the age ranges of that 1.1m would give some interesting context. Also how many of them are solely reliant on the state for their retirement
- temporarily sick : presumably these have jobs to go back to assuming they don't land in the long term sick category...? If not, then temporary is temporary. They should be available for work soon
- other : suspect this is the ~1m you mean
The new immigration set up is the carrot. A lot of people wanted controlled immigration. Many seemed comfortable with a points based system. The carrot is delivered (assuming the govt doesn't get Twittered on it...but that will be a massive test of Boris's tenure).
The stick is coming - radical shake up of the benefits system. Maybe not this year - way too many bear traps to navigate this year. But I would bet a large amount of money that it's coming.
Murph7355 said:
- long term sick : minefield for us all that one...but more context on that would be interesting. I'd like to see how those numbers have evolved over time. There will undoubtedly be some who absolutely cannot work in that group. I remain cynical about the scale of it (again, partly down to anecdotal experience of a distant family member)
Definite minefield. This figure includes the obese, while omitting people with terminal illnesses deemed fit to work.I work part time as a chef in a gastropub. We struggle to recruit kitchen staff as it is due to systemic issues in the industry, not helped by a rural location.
Of these 9 million economically inactive, how many of those are going to hack a ten hour shift in a kitchen that's 45C in the height of summer? How many of those will want to live in, in the @rse end of nowhere?
It's certainly going to be 'interesting' once the EU option is no longer available.
Of these 9 million economically inactive, how many of those are going to hack a ten hour shift in a kitchen that's 45C in the height of summer? How many of those will want to live in, in the @rse end of nowhere?
It's certainly going to be 'interesting' once the EU option is no longer available.
Murph7355 said:
The stick is coming - radical shake up of the benefits system. Maybe not this year - way too many bear traps to navigate this year. But I would bet a large amount of money that it's coming.
Such as what? Universal credit hasn't even been fully rolled out yet, and given that large industrial areas of the North voted Tory for the first time ever, taking away all the benefits isn't going to buy Tory votes next time round. I don't see a major change. Given that unemployment is low anyway, there isn't much room to push more people into work who arnt already doing so.
Mobile Chicane said:
I work part time as a chef in a gastropub. We struggle to recruit kitchen staff as it is due to systemic issues in the industry, not helped by a rural location.
Of these 9 million economically inactive, how many of those are going to hack a ten hour shift in a kitchen that's 45C in the height of summer? How many of those will want to live in, in the @rse end of nowhere?
It's certainly going to be 'interesting' once the EU option is no longer available.
Pay them £30,000 pa and they will.Of these 9 million economically inactive, how many of those are going to hack a ten hour shift in a kitchen that's 45C in the height of summer? How many of those will want to live in, in the @rse end of nowhere?
It's certainly going to be 'interesting' once the EU option is no longer available.
Condi said:
Such as what? Universal credit hasn't even been fully rolled out yet, and given that large industrial areas of the North voted Tory for the first time ever, taking away all the benefits isn't going to buy Tory votes next time round.
I don't see a major change. Given that unemployment is low anyway, there isn't much room to push more people into work who arnt already doing so.
Universal credit will be a facilitator IMO...I don't see a major change. Given that unemployment is low anyway, there isn't much room to push more people into work who arnt already doing so.
Gather all payments under a single nebulous umbrella. Then erode the value, free of the emotive heartstrings and edge cases with specific named benefits.
Unemployment is low. But that's not the only metric we need to be considering. Productivity is dire, and clearly a focus of the govt.
Condi said:
Such as what? Universal credit hasn't even been fully rolled out yet, and given that large industrial areas of the North voted Tory for the first time ever, taking away all the benefits isn't going to buy Tory votes next time round.
I don't see a major change. Given that unemployment is low anyway, there isn't much room to push more people into work who arnt already doing so.
It is interesting, there was a piece on I think you and yours this morning R4 where a young man with aspergers (again I think) had been helped back into work at first part-time and now full time at a factory in the town. He stated that having the opportunity to work full time with support of the company and a local commission set up for the purpose had done wonders for his self-confidence and that he now has friends that he meets socially after work. It was also mentioned that the company had now employed another similar young person on work experience with a similar aim to integrate them into the company. I don't see a major change. Given that unemployment is low anyway, there isn't much room to push more people into work who arnt already doing so.
If this is 'pushing' people into work I am all for it...
Vanden Saab said:
It is interesting, there was a piece on I think you and yours this morning R4 where a young man with aspergers (again I think) had been helped back into work at first part-time and now full time at a factory in the town. He stated that having the opportunity to work full time with support of the company and a local commission set up for the purpose had done wonders for his self-confidence and that he now has friends that he meets socially after work. It was also mentioned that the company had now employed another similar young person on work experience with a similar aim to integrate them into the company.
If this is 'pushing' people into work I am all for it...
Offtopic slightly but I knew someone with either mild autism/aspergers (not sure of difference) who had started work part time and then moved to working full time as a bookkeeper. Just because someone is not capable of doing some types of work does not mean they cannot do other jobs. If this is 'pushing' people into work I am all for it...
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