Home Secretary announces points-based immigration system
Discussion
El stovey said:
I agree. It takes back control while not being fixed to targets and has plenty of room for exemptions and changes.
It’s obviously a bit suck it and see but if you’re leaving the EU, one of the obvious benefits must be having a bit more say in who you let into your country.
But the total failure to grasp that there is no huge pool of low skilled, unemployed labour in the UK to fill those jobs is concerning. It’s obviously a bit suck it and see but if you’re leaving the EU, one of the obvious benefits must be having a bit more say in who you let into your country.
Agriculture and food processing relies hugely on cheap labour for often hard and difficult jobs, and many of those businesses will simply go out of business without the right staff. No matter how many exemptions there are, the added complexity and paperwork means Europeans will go and work in other countries, rather than coming here, even if they are legally allowed to. To believe that students are going to spend all their summer's cutting up carcasses in a meat processing plant is a complete joke, and to think that these jobs can simply be done by robots is equally laughable.
This policy is like everything else which has ever come out of Boris, it's what people want to hear without any consideration of the consequences. For the party of business this decisions seems to be very much anti business.
El stovey said:
The system will constantly be evolving depending on which jobs are needed though. I don’t think it’s a bad thing to have some more control over who’s arriving and working in the U.K. even if you’re against Brexit, having our own immigration system ought to be a positive thing?
We will still have plenty of immigration and the positives that brings just some more say in who the U.K. lets in.
The system will be implemented by government and run by civil servants. It will therefore be flexible, and adapt to markets need. We will still have plenty of immigration and the positives that brings just some more say in who the U.K. lets in.
biggles330d said:
Bit bizarre David Davis making some point about the threshold being £26,500, a full £10k less than the average wage in the UK. Without any hint of understanding that the vast majority of the roles we're taking about pay significantly less than £26,500 - that being an AVERAGE across the entire economy, not a TYPICAL wage within the sorts of sectors and jobs this will impact most.
DD is not the brightest. I doubt he realise that a UK average with large regional variations. Condi said:
El stovey said:
I agree. It takes back control while not being fixed to targets and has plenty of room for exemptions and changes.
It’s obviously a bit suck it and see but if you’re leaving the EU, one of the obvious benefits must be having a bit more say in who you let into your country.
But the total failure to grasp that there is no huge pool of low skilled, unemployed labour in the UK to fill those jobs is concerning. It’s obviously a bit suck it and see but if you’re leaving the EU, one of the obvious benefits must be having a bit more say in who you let into your country.
Agriculture and food processing relies hugely on cheap labour for often hard and difficult jobs, and many of those businesses will simply go out of business without the right staff. No matter how many exemptions there are, the added complexity and paperwork means Europeans will go and work in other countries, rather than coming here, even if they are legally allowed to. To believe that students are going to spend all their summer's cutting up carcasses in a meat processing plant is a complete joke, and to think that these jobs can simply be done by robots is equally laughable.
This policy is like everything else which has ever come out of Boris, it's what people want to hear without any consideration of the consequences. For the party of business this decisions seems to be very much anti business.
I expect the government do know that the U.K. needs cheap foreign labour, that’s why there are no immigration targets and loads of wriggle room.
Does this immigration policy make the voter think we’ve taken back control and got brexit done? I’d say so. If the U.K. economy is suffering due to a lack of cheap labour then some of the points will get reallocated towards those sectors struggling.
t than they previously would have had toCondi said:
But the total failure to grasp that there is no huge pool of low skilled, unemployed labour in the UK to fill those jobs is concerning.
Agriculture and food processing relies hugely on cheap labour for often hard and difficult jobs, and many of those businesses will simply go out of business without the right staff. No matter how many exemptions there are, the added complexity and paperwork means Europeans will go and work in other countries, rather than coming here, even if they are legally allowed to. To believe that students are going to spend all their summer's cutting up carcasses in a meat processing plant is a complete joke, and to think that these jobs can simply be done by robots is equally laughable.
The fact remains that there are vast numbers of low skilled jobs that can be automated, just as they have been in decades past as technology improves. Also if the price of keeping a job here is subsidising it with in work benefits we might well decide to import the product instead as an entirely rational decision. Agriculture and food processing relies hugely on cheap labour for often hard and difficult jobs, and many of those businesses will simply go out of business without the right staff. No matter how many exemptions there are, the added complexity and paperwork means Europeans will go and work in other countries, rather than coming here, even if they are legally allowed to. To believe that students are going to spend all their summer's cutting up carcasses in a meat processing plant is a complete joke, and to think that these jobs can simply be done by robots is equally laughable.
Priti vacant was talking about there being 8 million people economically inactive on the radio this morning who could fill the roles created by this policy.
I wonder how many of the approximately 1.3 million pensioners who are in this figure will be able and happy to go back to work until they keel over dead while picking fruit.
I wonder how many of the approximately 1.3 million pensioners who are in this figure will be able and happy to go back to work until they keel over dead while picking fruit.
El stovey said:
.
Does this immigration policy make the voter think we’ve taken back control and got brexit done? I’d say so. If the U.K. economy is suffering due to a lack of cheap labour then some of the points will get reallocated towards those sectors struggling.
The problem is that by the time points are reallocated many of the customers will have already switched to cheaper options or the companies needing the cheap labour will have already been struggling for a time. Does this immigration policy make the voter think we’ve taken back control and got brexit done? I’d say so. If the U.K. economy is suffering due to a lack of cheap labour then some of the points will get reallocated towards those sectors struggling.
And if you're Polish and want work, would you go to Germany where you can simply drive there and look for a job, or would you apply to be in the UK, need a job offer before you go, pay for a visa, and no doubt have serious terms and conditions around your length of stay if you ever lost your job? You'd go to Germany, of course you would. The paperwork and rules mean those Europeans are not going to come here even if they are legally able.
Ian Geary said:
I am disappointed you didn't mention council spending on pensions though...or perhaps the Director of Diversity that everyone thinks we employ on £80k a year...
In a similar vein: https://www.kent.gov.uk/about-the-council/finance-...Some impressive salaries in there.
El stovey said:
The government has to introduce some kind of post brexit immigration system though. This one will change constantly depending on what’s needed.
I expect the government do know that the U.K. needs cheap foreign labour, that’s why there are no immigration targets and loads of wriggle room.
Does this immigration policy make the voter think we’ve taken back control and got brexit done? I’d say so. If the U.K. economy is suffering due to a lack of cheap labour then some of the points will get reallocated towards those sectors struggling.
If only y that was what the current government was saying today, but they are instead stating no low skilled migrants will qualify I expect the government do know that the U.K. needs cheap foreign labour, that’s why there are no immigration targets and loads of wriggle room.
Does this immigration policy make the voter think we’ve taken back control and got brexit done? I’d say so. If the U.K. economy is suffering due to a lack of cheap labour then some of the points will get reallocated towards those sectors struggling.
Nothing really new here. Just a re-badge of the current tier 1 - 5 visa system with the behind the scenes calculations more visible.
The “pay” aspect is a smokescreen IMO.
It doesn’t address clandestine entry & the fact that most that make it in “detected” lodge an accepted asylum claim (and don’t / won’t get removed).
The “pay” aspect is a smokescreen IMO.
It doesn’t address clandestine entry & the fact that most that make it in “detected” lodge an accepted asylum claim (and don’t / won’t get removed).
JagLover said:
The fact remains that there are vast numbers of low skilled jobs that can be automated, just as they have been in decades past as technology improves. Also if the price of keeping a job here is subsidising it with in work benefits we might well decide to import the product instead as an entirely rational decision.
Don’t you just end up with someone entirely dependent on benefits if you import whatever they produce instead of making it here?citizensm1th said:
Priti vacant was talking about there being 8 million people economically inactive on the radio this morning who could fill the roles created by this policy.
I wonder how many of the approximately 1.3 million pensioners who are in this figure will be able and happy to go back to work until they keel over dead while picking fruit.
Those who voted leave would surely be more than happy to go and help make Britain great again! I wonder how many of the approximately 1.3 million pensioners who are in this figure will be able and happy to go back to work until they keel over dead while picking fruit.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I did exactly the same; in the 70s, I lived in Sale and then cycled to Sudlow Fruit Farm in Knutsford, to pick strawberries for the day. We were paid cash - which made the round trip of about 30 miles seem well worthwhile. In the evenings, I worked in a bar at the Cresta Court hotel in Altrincham. At the time, this was nothing unusual; in fact, it was commonplace - I suspect that this wouldn't be the case nowadays.Clearly, times have changed significantly. I frequently hear the line - "we need workers from abroad, to work on the farms, in the care homes etc, because they do the jobs that we 'won't' do". How were these tasks done previously and why won't we do them now ? Our postman told me recently, that they find it hard to get staff and that they'd recently taken on three staff, only to have them quit after one day, because of the walking involved - 3-5 miles a day, being far too much.
In this modern age, many folk state (quite reasonably) that we need a more equitable society - but how can it be acceptable, to have folk come over from abroad to do the jobs that 'we won't do' ? - that attitude in itself, is creating a class distinction/divide. We won't do these jobs ourselves, but it's okay for people to come from other countries to do these jobs which are low-paid and involve manual work ? How/why are we 'above' doing such jobs, but it's okay for others to do it ?
Edited by pubrunner on Wednesday 19th February 11:07
Condi said:
El stovey said:
.
Does this immigration policy make the voter think we’ve taken back control and got brexit done? I’d say so. If the U.K. economy is suffering due to a lack of cheap labour then some of the points will get reallocated towards those sectors struggling.
The problem is that by the time points are reallocated many of the customers will have already switched to cheaper options or the companies needing the cheap labour will have already been struggling for a time. Does this immigration policy make the voter think we’ve taken back control and got brexit done? I’d say so. If the U.K. economy is suffering due to a lack of cheap labour then some of the points will get reallocated towards those sectors struggling.
And if you're Polish and want work, would you go to Germany where you can simply drive there and look for a job, or would you apply to be in the UK, need a job offer before you go, pay for a visa, and no doubt have serious terms and conditions around your length of stay if you ever lost your job? You'd go to Germany, of course you would. The paperwork and rules mean those Europeans are not going to come here even if they are legally able.
| Destination | Number UK Expats |
|---|---|
| 1. Australia | 1,277k |
| 2. USA | 758k |
| 3. Canada | 674k |
| 4. Spain | 381k |
| 5. New Zealand | 314k |
| 6. South Africa | 305k |
citizensm1th said:
Priti vacant was talking about there being 8 million people economically inactive on the radio this morning who could fill the roles created by this policy.
I wonder how many of the approximately 1.3 million pensioners who are in this figure will be able and happy to go back to work until they keel over dead while picking fruit.
She adds a new level to stupid. I wonder how many of the approximately 1.3 million pensioners who are in this figure will be able and happy to go back to work until they keel over dead while picking fruit.
amusingduck said:
Doesn't work that way here, why do you assume it'd be the same for Polish people?
Those numbers mean nothing without a comparison to the number of Brits working in Europe. | Destination | Number UK Expats |
|---|---|
| 1. Australia | 1,277k |
| 2. USA | 758k |
| 3. Canada | 674k |
| 4. Spain | 381k |
| 5. New Zealand | 314k |
| 6. South Africa | 305k |
Also the reasons for moving are likely to be very different; economic migrants moving for work are likely to value the ease of movement, whereas a British immigrant to Australia is not likely to be on minimum wage and is also likely to be moving for the lifestyle, rather than simply to work.
amusingduck said:
1.2 million in total, a quick Google suggests. Less than Australia in isolation, and definitely far less than RoW combined.
Maybe because not only did Brits have visa free access to Australia, but their transport was subsidised by the Austrlaian government who were desperate for workers. And obviously British citizens includes children of British parents - it is very common to have duel Australian and British passports.
petemurphy said:
good people might get a proper wage at last although I know it wont be as simple as that. am sure some people on benefits can fill the positions...
Exactly this. Wages of particularly 'unskilled' people have been kept artificially low for years as a result of cheap euro labor that can be abused without repercussion. About time it was sorted out. Edited by petemurphy on Wednesday 19th February 07:13
Gaps will be filled and the show will go on... happy to bet 50p on it.
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