No More Coal !

[Evanivitch]

dvs_dave said:

Air quality hasn’t improved as much as expected during the lockdown in England and Wales, in part due to residential wood burning. When will people en masse start to “get it” that wood burners are an unnecessary and significant source of pollution?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/0...

Edited by dvs_dave on Thursday 2nd April 17:57

Yeah but not but yeah.

The reality is they aren't going to go away, but as has had recently, the government has taken big steps to improve the quality of the fuel and remove the cheap, nasty stuff from shops.

[Agammemnon]

dvs_dave said:

Air quality hasn’t improved as much as expected during the lockdown in England and Wales, in part due to residential wood burning. When will people en masse start to “get it” that wood burners are an unnecessary and significant source of pollution?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/0...

All through the winter I've been using my fireplace.

1 Will you pay for electricity used in place of my log fire? You want the change, surely you should pay for it.

2 Please confirm what I should do with the 20 tons of firewood I have from lopping a load of trees to give light to my solar array. Will you be disposing of them & making good any money I would have got from selling a few bags of logs here & there? Again, you want the change therefore you should fund it.

[Evanivitch]

Agammemnon said:

All through the winter I've been using my fireplace.

1 Will you pay for electricity used in place of my log fire? You want the change, surely you should pay for it.

2 Please confirm what I should do with the 20 tons of firewood I have from lopping a load of trees to give light to my solar array. Will you be disposing of them & making good any money I would have got from selling a few bags of logs here & there? Again, you want the change therefore you should fund it.

Do you ever stop being the victim?

[Agammemnon]

Evanivitch said:

Do you ever stop being the victim?

I'm not a victim at all- I'm just querying whether he's happy to pay for what he wants or whether he wants everyone else to fund his wishes.

btw- I wasn't asking you. Peace out, brother.

[Mr Whippy]

dvs_dave said:

Air quality hasn’t improved as much as expected during the lockdown in England and Wales, in part due to residential wood burning. When will people en masse start to “get it” that wood burners are an unnecessary and significant source of pollution?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/0...

Edited by dvs_dave on Thursday 2nd April 17:57

Oh I can’t wait for the power to go out and thousands freeze to death in winter.

We’ve just seen what retarded levels of globalisation and societal monoculture has done for us with this pandemic.

Now you want everyone to move to electricity to provide their start to end survivability in your average UK winter.


Sustainability is all about diversity.

All we really need if we’re that desperate to fix a bit of a non-issue in the big picture, are particulate traps on the chimneys. Not a massive problem.

[Zarco]

Agammemnon said:

Evanivitch said:

Do you ever stop being the victim?

I'm not a victim at all- I'm just querying whether he's happy to pay for what he wants or whether he wants everyone else to fund his wishes.

btw- I wasn't asking you. Peace out, brother.

I think we should tax log burners.

Then you can pay for what you want

[Agammemnon]

Zarco said:

I think we should tax log burners.

Then you can pay for what you want

Everyone seems to want to tax what others do,not what they do themselves. Funny, that.

[PeteinSQ]

Why do people on here keep referencing Germany and China in this thread? These regulations are all about local air quality.

I live in a rural area with no mains gas. We have a calor gas tank and a combi boiler that runs our central heating. Our house was built in 1800 and hasn’t fallen down because we don’t burn coal or wet wood.

This has nothing to do with virtue signalling and everything to do with the health of people with lung conditions.

Like drivers in London with non ulez compliant cars you’re going to have to make an investment in alternative heating systems. I’m sorry you’re annoyed about this but like the government I would prioritise people’s health over your time honoured right to burn polluting fuel. Stop being selfish.

[PositronicRay]

PeteinSQ said:

Why do people on here keep referencing Germany and China in this thread? These regulations are all about local air quality.

I live in a rural area with no mains gas. We have a calor gas tank and a combi boiler that runs our central heating. Our house was built in 1800 and hasn’t fallen down because we don’t burn coal or wet wood.

This has nothing to do with virtue signalling and everything to do with the health of people with lung conditions.

Like drivers in London with non ulez compliant cars you’re going to have to make an investment in alternative heating systems. I’m sorry you’re annoyed about this but like the government I would prioritise people’s health over your time honoured right to burn polluting fuel. Stop being selfish.

Well said.

And why are people still installing these things whenever they renovate or extend.

[PositronicRay]

Scolmore said:

PositronicRay said:

Well said.

And why are people still installing these things whenever they renovate or extend.

Because they make for a warm sitting space and speak to a very elemental part of us.

Energy diversity is a good thing indeed - see recent news articles about preparing for pandemic induced blackouts.

Going back to air quality not improving as expected - expected by who? Calculated using what methodology?

One man's cosy lounge, is another man's COPD.

[PeteinSQ]

You can still have a log burner you just have to buy kiln dried wood. Sorry if this costs you more but it's for the benefit of other people who would suffer because of your selfishness. Try not to be so self centred.

[Agammemnon]

PeteinSQ said:

You can still have a log burner you just have to buy kiln dried wood.

I have logs that have dried & seasoned for 2 years- is this not good enough for you?

[Evanivitch]

PeteinSQ said:

You can still have a log burner you just have to buy kiln dried wood.

No, you don't.

You can't buy 'wet' wood in small quantities. But you can still buy it in large quantities and season it yourself (as many do for about 50% saving over kiln dried). You can also collect and season your own wood to burn.

The legislation doesn't control what you can burn, only what can be sold.

[Dog Star]

Agammemnon said:

PeteinSQ said:

You can still have a log burner you just have to buy kiln dried wood.

I have logs that have dried & seasoned for 2 years- is this not good enough for you?

These nay-sayers can stick it up their arse. I'll be continuing to burn coal and logs in our fires and I doubt anyone will ever do anything about it. I've a coal delivery (we still have a coal man up here) coming this afternoon and I've tons of logs all split and stacked for next year and the year after.

Being serious now .... let's face it - what has brought this to people's attention (ie. Guardian readers - they want to ban everything!) is people in Islington or wherever installing burners as it's the trendy thing to do now, and I can see the objection there these days what with millions and millions of people jammed in cheek by jowl. If it wasn't for this then nobody would notice people up some valley in Lancashire with coal or wood fires (ie. me).

As usual, as with congestion, public transport or whatever - we will get a South East/London based solution foisted on the rest of us.

[PeteinSQ]

Evanivitch said:

No, you don't.

You can't buy 'wet' wood in small quantities. But you can still buy it in large quantities and season it yourself (as many do for about 50% saving over kiln dried). You can also collect and season your own wood to burn.

The legislation doesn't control what you can burn, only what can be sold.

In that case I'm sure other posters are going to be ok. I personally have a log store full of logs that have been drying for years.

The idea that people want to continue to risk the health of their neighbours is pretty repugnant to me. You can moan about "Guardian readers" all you like but this was brought in by a Conservative government who dont tend to care what Guardian readers think. Maybe they've been motivated by advice from healthcare experts rather than a bunch of grumpy, selfish gits out in the shires?

[Agammemnon]

pgh said:

PeteinSQ said:

Try not to be so self centred.

Where did that come from?

It came from don't care about yourselves, care about him.

[Evanivitch]

PeteinSQ said:

In that case I'm sure other posters are going to be ok. I personally have a log store full of logs that have been drying for years.

The idea that people want to continue to risk the health of their neighbours is pretty repugnant to me. You can moan about "Guardian readers" all you like but this was brought in by a Conservative government who dont tend to care what Guardian readers think. Maybe they've been motivated by advice from healthcare experts rather than a bunch of grumpy, selfish gits out in the shires?

Or the fact the government is getting sued for failing to manage air pollution?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/feb/2...


Again, I stress that whilst wood burners are definitely not ideal for use on urban areas, it's the inappropriate use of the burner and the fuel that is causing the biggest issues. It's comparable to sitting in an idling car for no good reason or a diesel remap that blows soot everywhere.

[Electro1980]

Agammemnon said:

pgh said:

PeteinSQ said:

Try not to be so self centred.

Where did that come from?

It came from don't care about yourselves, care about him.

Fuels that not only cause air pollution but also cause chimney fires. Wet logs should never have been sold in small quantities.

[PeteinSQ]

Agammemnon said:

It came from don't care about yourselves, care about him.

I dont have asthma and neither does anyone in my family. You're basically saying you're right to burn cheap fuel is more important than other people's right to breathe clean air. Pretty fked up.

[Mort7]

Zarco said:

I think we should tax log burners.

Then you can pay for what you want

In the interest of balance - log burners are already taxed. You'll pay VAT on the purchase price in the same way that you would on any other appliance. Logs which are purchased are taxed at 5% in the same way as electricity, gas or oil. Logs which are sold on to other business for resale are (I believe) taxed at 20%. Just saying.