Organ donation.
Discussion
Ive nothing against organ donation, it clearly gives life to those who would otherwise die but thats not where I was coming from.
In my opinion you shouldnt have to opt out of something like that, its the presumed consent aspect and its implications of some kind of ownership by the state that Im uneasy with, ownership of a human. Simple as that.
In my opinion you shouldnt have to opt out of something like that, its the presumed consent aspect and its implications of some kind of ownership by the state that Im uneasy with, ownership of a human. Simple as that.
Dont Panic said:
Ive nothing against organ donation, it clearly gives life to those who would otherwise die but thats not where I was coming from.
In my opinion you shouldnt have to opt out of something like that, its the presumed consent aspect and its implications of some kind of ownership by the state that Im uneasy with, ownership of a human. Simple as that.
You are entitled to your opinion. We are entitled to judge you a bit of a loon based on your expression of that opinion. If you feel strongly enough about it, please do opt out. I assume that opting out also preludes you consuming organs donated by others, or would you consider rank hypocrisy something you would be fine with? In my opinion you shouldnt have to opt out of something like that, its the presumed consent aspect and its implications of some kind of ownership by the state that Im uneasy with, ownership of a human. Simple as that.
Dont Panic said:
In my opinion you shouldnt have to opt out of something like that, its the presumed consent aspect and its implications of some kind of ownership by the state that Im uneasy with, ownership of a human. Simple as that.
Principles vs Pragmatism. Enough people simply won't opt-in if they have to.If you have a better solution I'd love to hear it.
It's a good job we don't have conscription any more. The state claims ownership of you while you're still alive!
We are talking dead bodies here, and isn't there a peculiar legal situation covering this? As I understand it, there is no property in a dead body, merely a responsibility for someone to dispose of it. The state isn't taking anything if nobody owns it, and it just becomes a matter of disposal.
I would have no problems, but I don't think my remains would be medically acceptable because I am over seventy and a cancer sufferer.
We are talking dead bodies here, and isn't there a peculiar legal situation covering this? As I understand it, there is no property in a dead body, merely a responsibility for someone to dispose of it. The state isn't taking anything if nobody owns it, and it just becomes a matter of disposal.
I would have no problems, but I don't think my remains would be medically acceptable because I am over seventy and a cancer sufferer.
Agammemnon said:
That's the whole point- the government has decided on our behalf. I was happy to opt in but who the hell do they think they are to make the decision for me?
They haven't.a) you can opt out.
b) given they can only use organs from those who die in hospital - you can refuse to go to hospital.
Agammemnon said:
I don't accept that- I haven't volunteered, I've had the decision made unless I take action to alter it.
So take that option - it's simple enough. In the time you typed those comments on PH you could have opted out.ETA here's the link. 30 seconds should do it.
https://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/register-your-dec...
Edited by i4got on Tuesday 25th February 12:25
I’ve posted this story before, my daughter works at St Thomas and Guys in ICU.
They had a 20 year old that hung himself in. The paramedics managed to revive him but he was brain dead. After a few days in ICU, the decision was made to switch off life support.
As he was an organ donor, they were able to harvest his organs in an orderly way and saved or greatly improved the lives of I think 8 people.
The Organ donor service wrote to the parents telling them where every organ had gone and how long the recipient had been waiting for a donor.
At a time of great sadness for the parents it brought them joy that their son had helped others.
They had a 20 year old that hung himself in. The paramedics managed to revive him but he was brain dead. After a few days in ICU, the decision was made to switch off life support.
As he was an organ donor, they were able to harvest his organs in an orderly way and saved or greatly improved the lives of I think 8 people.
The Organ donor service wrote to the parents telling them where every organ had gone and how long the recipient had been waiting for a donor.
At a time of great sadness for the parents it brought them joy that their son had helped others.
Agammemnon said:
Why should I have to? Surely a default position should be to leave alone. I prefer the concept of volunteers to that of press-gangs.
If you know you're on your way out may I suggest you book a month in a Travelodge and keep the door locked. That way they won't 'get' you. If, (& its a big 'if'), any of my organs will be worth harvesting, it could be somewhat tricky & potentially gruesome displaying me in an open coffin for people to pay their last respects. I hope the NHS has stocked up on glass eyeballs & the like just in case.....
This does rather depend on me dying passively, rather than get turned into mincemeat in a motorcycle crash or similar.
Basically: if any of my bits actually go to making somebody's life livable, then so be it. When I'm dead I won't know anything about it anyway. I suspect those that have imaginary friends in the sky will think otherwise
This does rather depend on me dying passively, rather than get turned into mincemeat in a motorcycle crash or similar.
Basically: if any of my bits actually go to making somebody's life livable, then so be it. When I'm dead I won't know anything about it anyway. I suspect those that have imaginary friends in the sky will think otherwise
i4got said:
So take that option - it's simple enough. In the time you typed those comments on PH you could have opted out.
It's not about the rights & wrongs of organ donation- it's about the rights & wrongs of government sticking its nose into where it shouldn't.If I'm standing in front of a judge I don't think the concept of presumed consent will hold much water. What's good for the goose........
Agammemnon said:
It's not about the rights & wrongs of organ donation- it's about the rights & wrongs of government sticking its nose into where it shouldn't.
If I'm standing in front of a judge I don't think the concept of presumed consent will hold much water. What's good for the goose........
So for the avoidance of doubt. You feel that opt out organ donation would give you the moral right to rape someone?If I'm standing in front of a judge I don't think the concept of presumed consent will hold much water. What's good for the goose........
Agammemnon said:
I don't accept that- I haven't volunteered, I've had the decision made unless I take action to alter it.
OTOH for every person who feels strongly like you there are probably dozens who don't feel strongly either way and therefore haven't bothered opting in.IMO presumed consent makes sense as it's too late to ask the person once they're in a position to donate.
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