Losing an engine on take-off
Discussion
Flying from Gatwick to Belfast last Saturday morning with EasyJet, A320 I think although wasn't looking too closely, but it usually is on that flight. I'm sitting RHS window seat a couple of rows behind the wing.
A few seconds after takeoff and immediately after the landing gear has raised there is a loud bang and bright flash from the engine. My first I thought was a lightening strike but it wasn't really the weather for it. We seem to stop climbing and just carry on straight at low altitude, by then I'm thinking we're going to be heading back to Gatwick as something must be wrong, but no. The Captain makes an announcement to the cabin crew, I can't remember the exact phrase but it certainly wasn't 'start serving the drinks'. We can hear a lot of drawers or cupboards being opened and shut by the crew at the rear behind us.
The lady in the window seat in the row in front of me is very, and I mean very, anxious about all this and understandably presses the cabin crew call button.
After a few minutes we seem to start climbing again. Cabin crew come to the lady and spend some time reassuring her and make her and her partner a cup of tea etc. They say the Captain will be making an announcement, which he does shortly afterwards. He says "we may have felt 'some vibration' earlier, it was caused by too much air rushing through the engine which caused it to stall. This happens sometimes, the engine has been restarted, we are monitoring it closely but otherwise happy to continue to Belfast. Nothing to worry about."
The rest of the flight passes without incident if a little nervously as you might imagine.
Just wondered is this really a normal occurrence? It did make me concerned, certainly. I know we're told planes are built to fly on one engine but even so.
We were in the queue to take off from Gatwick for 90 mins, and on the runway we did seem to be a very long time before lift off. Do jet engines not like 'sitting idling' for long periods? I've no idea.
Any thoughts from the experts?
A few seconds after takeoff and immediately after the landing gear has raised there is a loud bang and bright flash from the engine. My first I thought was a lightening strike but it wasn't really the weather for it. We seem to stop climbing and just carry on straight at low altitude, by then I'm thinking we're going to be heading back to Gatwick as something must be wrong, but no. The Captain makes an announcement to the cabin crew, I can't remember the exact phrase but it certainly wasn't 'start serving the drinks'. We can hear a lot of drawers or cupboards being opened and shut by the crew at the rear behind us.
The lady in the window seat in the row in front of me is very, and I mean very, anxious about all this and understandably presses the cabin crew call button.
After a few minutes we seem to start climbing again. Cabin crew come to the lady and spend some time reassuring her and make her and her partner a cup of tea etc. They say the Captain will be making an announcement, which he does shortly afterwards. He says "we may have felt 'some vibration' earlier, it was caused by too much air rushing through the engine which caused it to stall. This happens sometimes, the engine has been restarted, we are monitoring it closely but otherwise happy to continue to Belfast. Nothing to worry about."
The rest of the flight passes without incident if a little nervously as you might imagine.
Just wondered is this really a normal occurrence? It did make me concerned, certainly. I know we're told planes are built to fly on one engine but even so.
We were in the queue to take off from Gatwick for 90 mins, and on the runway we did seem to be a very long time before lift off. Do jet engines not like 'sitting idling' for long periods? I've no idea.
Any thoughts from the experts?
Edited by stevep944 on Tuesday 25th February 20:17
As the wiki says it's pretty rare for a surge or stall on modern engines but it can still happen. I can assure you easyJet wouldn't take any safety risks so once they'd stabilised it by throttling back and getting stable indicators the decision to carry on to destination was a fair call. More likely to be atmospheric conditions than extended taxi time. There's plenty of single engine power margin on the A320 in that situation, particularly with a light fuel load for that sector. Takeoff phase is the least desirable time to lose power but that's what the girls & guys up front are trained for.
On my very first engine ground runs on a 747-100 when I was an apprentice we had a surge and it certainly woke me up on the back shift. Flames and big bang. The JT9D engine was particularly sensitive to wind up the back as the mechanical controls weren't reactive enough. Our ground run silencers weren't particularly sheltered from tail or cross winds. We shut it down, did some physicals and restarted it and cleared the runs without further incident. Turbofans can be remarkably resilient.
On my very first engine ground runs on a 747-100 when I was an apprentice we had a surge and it certainly woke me up on the back shift. Flames and big bang. The JT9D engine was particularly sensitive to wind up the back as the mechanical controls weren't reactive enough. Our ground run silencers weren't particularly sheltered from tail or cross winds. We shut it down, did some physicals and restarted it and cleared the runs without further incident. Turbofans can be remarkably resilient.
Edited by Speed 3 on Tuesday 25th February 21:01
Airbus procedures permit continued operation after an engine stall. We follow a short checklist and if the engine ceases to stall you 'may' continue.
There can be many causes but they are rare. They're also pretty alarming, particularly at low level where the sound isn't masked by airflow.
There can be many causes but they are rare. They're also pretty alarming, particularly at low level where the sound isn't masked by airflow.
I've read quite a bit about rotating stall and surge as it applies to our gas circulators at work as well as turbo chargers.
A very complex subject, I bet it woke you up !
Landing last week (from northern Italy, but thats a different story
), in bad weather and in heavy storm clouds. Family next to us were concerned about the flashing outside there window, steward explained, its the navigation strobe lights, not lightning, dont worry. Bang ! and the whole cabin lit up. The steward calmly then said "now that's lighting" and wandered off.
A very complex subject, I bet it woke you up !
Landing last week (from northern Italy, but thats a different story
), in bad weather and in heavy storm clouds. Family next to us were concerned about the flashing outside there window, steward explained, its the navigation strobe lights, not lightning, dont worry. Bang ! and the whole cabin lit up. The steward calmly then said "now that's lighting" and wandered off. It’s certainly a rare event ( I’ve been flying over a decade on both main types that the low costs use and never had an engine problem yet).
It certainly sounds like an engine stall which can be dramatic but once thrust reduced on that engine the normal direction of air flow in the engine is resumed. The crew would certainly have trained for this in the sim. Easyjet take their sim training and continued pilot development very seriously so you are in safer hands than any out there including BA.
As long as the engines have had 3mins to warm up the engine should be perfectly fine running at at idle for hours ( unless in heavy icing conditions at which point ice could form on blades but there are ice shedding procedures).
White flashing light seen through the window is usually most noticeable in thick cloud and is the strobe light.
It certainly sounds like an engine stall which can be dramatic but once thrust reduced on that engine the normal direction of air flow in the engine is resumed. The crew would certainly have trained for this in the sim. Easyjet take their sim training and continued pilot development very seriously so you are in safer hands than any out there including BA.
As long as the engines have had 3mins to warm up the engine should be perfectly fine running at at idle for hours ( unless in heavy icing conditions at which point ice could form on blades but there are ice shedding procedures).
White flashing light seen through the window is usually most noticeable in thick cloud and is the strobe light.
Edited by Hifly130 on Wednesday 26th February 20:19
Definitely sounds like compressor stall, had it once coming off an oil rig when we had to fly close to the exhausts from the gas turbines that power the installation. There was a loud thump directly above my head (where the engine intakes are) and the torque, nr (rotor speed) and Np (power turbine) dials all went crazy for a few seconds. I thought we’d hit a bird or had an engine failure but as soon as we got into the clear air again everything was fine.
stevep944 said:
Any thoughts from the experts?
I wouldn't consider myself an "expert" outside my direct field, but my thought process in such an event would roughly be:1) "Christ, I hope that wasn't one of ours"
2) "The crew are out their seats and acting normally, I think I'll have another whisky".
When I cam back from NYC a few years ago on a 747 we had the pilot come over the comm system syaing that they were monitoring a vibration from an engine and we may need to turn back and land in Canada (this was about an hour into the flight). It turned out that all was good and we continued home, there was a lady that got very, very anxious though and needed to be calmed down.
In short, why do they insist on telling passengers this stuff? Just tell me stuff when there's actually something to tell and a decision has been made to turn back, before that we don't need to know.
In short, why do they insist on telling passengers this stuff? Just tell me stuff when there's actually something to tell and a decision has been made to turn back, before that we don't need to know.
InitialDave said:
2) "The crew are out their seats and acting normally, I think I'll have another whisky".
I always watch the crew if anything seems odd. If it's normal for them, it's nothing to worry about. If they are rapidly strapping s
t down and mouthing WTF at each other...reaffirm where the exit is.Munter said:
InitialDave said:
2) "The crew are out their seats and acting normally, I think I'll have another whisky".
I always watch the crew if anything seems odd. If it's normal for them, it's nothing to worry about. If they are rapidly strapping st down and mouthing WTF at each other...reaffirm where the exit is.only ever seen the cabin crew frightened once, landing in a hurricane in HongKong.
pushthebutton said:
Hifly130 said:
Easyjet take their sim training and continued pilot development very seriously so you are in safer hands than any out there including BA.
Contentious, muchThis chap has some good info referencing all things aeronautical
Mentour Pilot
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwpHKudUkP5tNgmMd...
K.
Mentour Pilot
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwpHKudUkP5tNgmMd...
K.
Munter said:
InitialDave said:
2) "The crew are out their seats and acting normally, I think I'll have another whisky".
I always watch the crew if anything seems odd. If it's normal for them, it's nothing to worry about. If they are rapidly strapping st down and mouthing WTF at each other...reaffirm where the exit is.Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff