Will China be brought to account?

[BlackLabel]

China punishes critic of Xi Jinping with 18 years in jail for calling the dictator a clown in handling the pandemic embezzlement, bribery and abuse of power.



“ China's court system has a conviction rate of around 99%, according to legal observers, and corruption charges are often used to go after Communist Party insiders who fall afoul of the leadership.
Ren's conviction and heavy sentence appears designed to send a message to other members of the Chinese elite that any public criticism or defiance of Xi will not be tolerated, as Beijing continues to deal with the fallout of the pandemic and faces intense international pressure from Washington and others.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/22/asia/china-ren-...

[rodericb]

here's an Australian Journalists brush with all that: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-21/matthew-car...


Edit: and while we're there: https://amp.news.com.au/technology/innovation/mili...

Edited by rodericb on Tuesday 22 September 15:29

[3454.5]

It's almost as if the politicians in the rest of the world are frightened of challenging China, or perhaps are personally financially invested there in some way.
Whichever, we are being very badly let down and should not have to face the enormous ongoing cost.
Oh,btw, I'm another who will never vote again, Conservative for the last 19 years.

[jamoor]

3454.5 said:

It's almost as if the politicians in the rest of the world are frightened of challenging China, or perhaps are personally financially invested there in some way.
Whichever, we are being very badly let down and should not have to face the enormous ongoing cost.
Oh,btw, I'm another who will never vote again, Conservative for the last 19 years.

The thing is I am not sure what the end game of challenging them is. I can't see a day where their domestic policy will be influenced from the outside, just look at what happened in Hong Kong.

[Digga]

jamoor said:

3454.5 said:

It's almost as if the politicians in the rest of the world are frightened of challenging China, or perhaps are personally financially invested there in some way.
Whichever, we are being very badly let down and should not have to face the enormous ongoing cost.
Oh,btw, I'm another who will never vote again, Conservative for the last 19 years.

The thing is I am not sure what the end game of challenging them is. I can't see a day where their domestic policy will be influenced from the outside, just look at what happened in Hong Kong.

I agree. Any other nation would understand that whilst there are times where taking a lone stance, hard-line approach is necessary, being collaborative and willing to compromise is, in the long term, the way forward for mutually beneficial trade and relations.

I've said it before, China just does not know how to play nice with others. it's the Eric Cartman of global politics.

We won't alter that from without, the change will have to come gradually (and sometimes painfully, as those who speak out often find to their own, great cost) from within. On a very long timeline, they can't hoodwink all of the population forever. Most of them know they are neither free nor well served by their political masters.

[Carrot]

Digga said:

I've said it before, China just does not know how to play nice with others. it's the Eric Cartman of global politics.

.

Perfectly put!

[Tuna]

3454.5 said:

It's almost as if the politicians in the rest of the world are frightened of challenging China, or perhaps are personally financially invested there in some way.
Whichever, we are being very badly let down and should not have to face the enormous ongoing cost.
Oh,btw, I'm another who will never vote again, Conservative for the last 19 years.

China has a financial war chest that means it could crash the entire Western banking system overnight if it wanted to. It's invested in, and producing for most of our economies. We cannot tell it what to do.

However, it does look like the wakeup call has been heard. After Globalisation was seen as the universal panacea for economies, we're moving back towards greater independence. It's going to take years, but many of the Western leaders are moving policies towards (re)building local industries, skills and production rather than relying on cheap offers from China or dumping our unwanted problems on third world countries.

[Digga]

Tuna said:

However, it does look like the wakeup call has been heard. After Globalisation was seen as the universal panacea for economies, we're moving back towards greater independence. It's going to take years, but many of the Western leaders are moving policies towards (re)building local industries, skills and production rather than relying on cheap offers from China or dumping our unwanted problems on third world countries.

My take, as far as manufacturing goes, is that the advent of far Eastern offshoring, particularly to China, delayed the rollout of the 'next' industrial revolution, which is automation and digitisation.

the desire to take control and reduce supply chain variables will now push this. it's not just that China is so intractable and, in many ways untrustworthy, but also simply that it's so far away. The length and variability of the logistics chain have proved a greater risk than many purchasing managers on cost-down bonus wanted to acknowledge. It's not just China either, furlough has produced a shortage of UK HGV drivers capable of pulling containers out of ports. Sure, many go onto rail first, but they still need trucking at some point.

[GroundZero]

Tuna said:

China has a financial war chest that means it could crash the entire Western banking system overnight if it wanted to.
.

Heard this mentioned before, how would this work exactly?

[Getragdogleg]

Digga said:

furlough has produced a shortage of UK HGV drivers capable of pulling containers out of ports. Sure, many go onto rail first, but they still need trucking at some point.

A point I would like to pick you up on there. The EU's insistence on drivers having to complete a certain number of hours of training for a CPC has been the biggest factor in the shortages. There are many drivers (myself included) who simply cannot be bothered with having to do it so once the last module has run out don't bother to do more and just let the CPC lapse.

I have held a HGV licence for 20+ years but my CPC ran out over lockdown and I'm simply not driving any more.

The EU CPC scheme, much like anything else the EU does with the haulage industry has damaged it beyond repair. the youngsters don't want to do it because its a st job away from home with long hours and the people like me don't see the benefit from doing 8 hours in a classroom learning about how to lift stuff up or mulling over drivers hours again or any of the other courses that you can repeat as often as you like just for the cpc time credits.

SO the driver shortage started long before this current problem

[BigMon]

rodericb said:

here's an Australian Journalists brush with all that: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-21/matthew-car...


Edit: and while we're there: https://amp.news.com.au/technology/innovation/mili...

Edited by rodericb on Tuesday 22 September 15:29

Just read those. Blimey, talk about eye opening.

[rodericb]

GroundZero said:

Tuna said:

China has a financial war chest that means it could crash the entire Western banking system overnight if it wanted to.
.

Heard this mentioned before, how would this work exactly?

I've heard this too but then I also hear that the USA actually has a greater level power in that relationship than people think as China holds massive amounts of American debt and dollars.

[Digga]

Getragdogleg said:

Digga said:

furlough has produced a shortage of UK HGV drivers capable of pulling containers out of ports. Sure, many go onto rail first, but they still need trucking at some point.

A point I would like to pick you up on there. The EU's insistence on drivers having to complete a certain number of hours of training for a CPC has been the biggest factor in the shortages. There are many drivers (myself included) who simply cannot be bothered with having to do it so once the last module has run out don't bother to do more and just let the CPC lapse.

I have held a HGV licence for 20+ years but my CPC ran out over lockdown and I'm simply not driving any more.

The EU CPC scheme, much like anything else the EU does with the haulage industry has damaged it beyond repair. the youngsters don't want to do it because its a st job away from home with long hours and the people like me don't see the benefit from doing 8 hours in a classroom learning about how to lift stuff up or mulling over drivers hours again or any of the other courses that you can repeat as often as you like just for the cpc time credits.

SO the driver shortage started long before this current problem

101% agree with you; the CPC scheme is an ass.

We have a 7.5t works HGV. It's the same truck we have owned, from new, properly maintained and never once been pulled for an issue with, since 1999. So [i[very[/i] low annual mileage.

Because we occasionally collect steel, take parts for heat treatment and occasionally drop customers roders (most go on freight or pallet carriers) everyone has to have a DCPC.

We were recently picked for a DVSA survey and the log of trips was mostly to and from works to warehouse, with is barely on public roads. The overhead and drain of DCPC is ridiculous but necessary to comply.

We we see 'civilians' driving horseboxes badly, or kids driving heavily laden trailers behind tractors even worse, knowing they have none of this red tape, it really is annoying.

[jamoor]

Digga said:

I agree. Any other nation would understand that whilst there are times where taking a lone stance, hard-line approach is necessary, being collaborative and willing to compromise is, in the long term, the way forward for mutually beneficial trade and relations.

I've said it before, China just does not know how to play nice with others. it's the Eric Cartman of global politics.

We won't alter that from without, the change will have to come gradually (and sometimes painfully, as those who speak out often find to their own, great cost) from within. On a very long timeline, they can't hoodwink all of the population forever. Most of them know they are neither free nor well served by their political masters.

I’d say they know exactly what the score is.
Anyone over 25 will also know exactly how the country has experienced development at breakneck speed and has gone from a developing country and avoided the middle income trap, and is well on the way to being an industrialised innovation led country . This is probably why the population doesn’t care because their master have delivered practical measurable results.

China doesn’t know how to play nice with others as it doesn’t need to it’s their way or the highway, same with the EU and USA. Too big to give a crap.

The only difference is that China only has one ally.

[Puggit]

China blamed for Barbados ditching Queen - CIA has evidence:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/china-blam...

[BlackLabel]

China’s greatest strength is that it thinks and plans decades into the future whereas our politicians can’t think any further than the next newspaper headline/opinion poll/election.

[Puggit]

BlackLabel said:

China’s greatest strength is that it thinks and plans decades into the future whereas our politicians can’t think any further than the next newspaper headline/opinion poll/election.

One party v two party politics!

[Getragdogleg]

BlackLabel said:

China’s greatest strength is that it thinks and plans decades into the future whereas our politicians can’t think any further than the next newspaper headline/opinion poll/election.

Our lot think in 5 year cycles, the Chinese top brass are there for life if they deliver and behave.

[vaud]

Getragdogleg said:

Our lot think in 5 year cycles, the Chinese top brass are there for life if they deliver and behave.

And the Chinese not quite top brass do what they are told and suppress so that they can live.

[anonymous-user]

BlackLabel said:

China’s greatest strength is that it thinks and plans decades into the future whereas our politicians can’t think any further than the next newspaper headline/opinion poll/election.

I agree. Just imagine how a politician who did have a bold vision and a sensible long term plan, god forbid with some cross party cooperation, well articulated to the public, who's party got behind them to start delivering without infighting and publicly tearing each other apart... just imagine how they would fair at the polls and be remembered. Never going to happen I know. Christ it almost doesn't matter what it is at this point, just something, anything that isn't a complete fvcking stshow from the outset.