Will China be brought to account?
Discussion
RizzoTheRat said:
Lots of people focussing on the bat thing, is eating wild bats really that different from eating wild deer, rabbit, cod, goose, pheasant, etc?
There is an issue with some wild deer and a few other animals of that elk (sorry) at the moment... google Chronic Wasting Disease.RizzoTheRat said:
Lots of people focussing on the bat thing, is eating wild bats really that different from eating wild deer, rabbit, cod, goose, pheasant, etc?
Several thousand dead people says - yes. The prime form of them being brought to account is all countries will thinking hard about supply chains and national resilience in future. That'll have a sizeable effect on the Chinese economy.
ATG said:
El stovey said:
WTF?
My local Chinese take away is run by people who maybe look Chinese but they’re British.
They don’t sell cats or pangolin or have a Wuhan wet market behind the kitchen.
Your post is actually really ignorant and racist.
I assumed it was a joke.My local Chinese take away is run by people who maybe look Chinese but they’re British.
They don’t sell cats or pangolin or have a Wuhan wet market behind the kitchen.
Your post is actually really ignorant and racist.
The idea that some irate little britonner was going to unleash his pea-brained and ineffectual revenge on the Red Dragon by boycotting the "Red Dragon Takeaway" in Cleethorpes had me pissing myself.
Looks like a few on here need to scoff a few wet Chinese parrots to counteract their humour bypass.
Edited by chris.mod on Wednesday 18th March 15:27
bloomen said:
RizzoTheRat said:
Lots of people focussing on the bat thing, is eating wild bats really that different from eating wild deer, rabbit, cod, goose, pheasant, etc?
Several thousand dead people says - yes. The prime form of them being brought to account is all countries will thinking hard about supply chains and national resilience in future. That'll have a sizeable effect on the Chinese economy.
We still have a beef industry despite CJD.
av185 said:
Quite.
Looks like a few on here need to scoff a few wet Chinese parrots to counteract their humour bypass.
That’s the trouble with satire. It needs to be obviously satirical, or from someone you know wouldn’t normally speak like that, otherwise it just sounds like the kind of thing people on here normally write. Looks like a few on here need to scoff a few wet Chinese parrots to counteract their humour bypass.
Pesty said:
Countdown said:
What about the stuff we’re doing now to screw up other countries?
I’m not saying either is acceptable but it’s the height of hypocrisy to try and hold China “accountable” when you look at some of the stuff that the UK and US are involved in.
What stuff and has it caused a global economic meltdown?I’m not saying either is acceptable but it’s the height of hypocrisy to try and hold China “accountable” when you look at some of the stuff that the UK and US are involved in.
China knew about this since November still let people out infecting the world.
And you know the deaths
RizzoTheRat said:
Lots of people focussing on the bat thing, is eating wild bats really that different from eating wild deer, rabbit, cod, goose, pheasant, etc?
Nope non at all, other than culturally we find eating bat or dog distasteful. I am sure there are aspect of our culture that they find odd/ funny/ strange. Our cultural norms are no better or worse than theirs, just different.
Asian wet markets (they have similar in South America and Africa) are very strange places to visit as a westerner but it is how these people have lived for hundreds of years. They sell the products available locally, it is normal, the fact that we see these animals as pets/ zoo critters is our problem, not theirs.
Our food hygiene standards are better, but we don't have millions of people living in virtual medieval conditions, with smart phones. I think changing their way of life to be like ours, everything pre-packaged and the same from continent to continent would be a crying shame.
Blue One said:
So this Coronavirus is the third sh*tstorm China has unleashed on the world this century, and the most deadly and impactful (the other two being SARS and bird flu). There are two sets of charges against them:
1. Economic/Human; cost, damage, death, health, disruption etc
2. Nature: barbaric treatment of animals, no effective action to manage transference of illness from animals to humans despite two previous instances
Beyond that, and not directly related, is the fact that almost any animal extinction story, or ecological disaster seems to have China's fingerprints on it (ivory trade/poaching, tiger hunting, shark fins, rainforest destruction etc).
The Chinese really have a lot of answer for! Despite that, I have a feeling they will emerge from this latest crisis stronger than ever as the world is now almost totally dependant on Chinese goods, money and support.
Ideally, some international court should slap real restrictions on China and make sure they make real changes to stop this kind of thing being repeated and to roll-back their impact on animals and nature.
Thoughts?
Lol. You’re an enabler.1. Economic/Human; cost, damage, death, health, disruption etc
2. Nature: barbaric treatment of animals, no effective action to manage transference of illness from animals to humans despite two previous instances
Beyond that, and not directly related, is the fact that almost any animal extinction story, or ecological disaster seems to have China's fingerprints on it (ivory trade/poaching, tiger hunting, shark fins, rainforest destruction etc).
The Chinese really have a lot of answer for! Despite that, I have a feeling they will emerge from this latest crisis stronger than ever as the world is now almost totally dependant on Chinese goods, money and support.
Ideally, some international court should slap real restrictions on China and make sure they make real changes to stop this kind of thing being repeated and to roll-back their impact on animals and nature.
Thoughts?
Stop giving them your money if you care.
nikaiyo2 said:
Our food hygiene standards are better, but we don't have millions of people living in virtual medieval conditions, with smart phones. I think changing their way of life to be like ours, everything pre-packaged and the same from continent to continent would be a crying shame.
That's very much a western centric viewpoint though. The only thing that matters is what Chinese people themselves want. What you regard as "everything pre-packaged and the same from continent to continent" would be a standard of living that many aspire to.Slightly off topic, but I got annoyed with Chris Packham recntly complaining about the amazon rain forest being cut down to grow Eucalyptus for loo rolls. What about the millions of Brazilians now using flush toilets for the first time?
J4CKO said:
Nope it didn't, but it was an example of doing stuff badly, in an unnatural way that caused a disease.
That rather depends on what you think caused BSE in the first place. The render/animal feed business took the blame, but for some of us who were DEEPLY involved in the industry at the time there was clear and considerable evidence that the outbreak was a result of UK Government advice to farmers regarding the treatment of warble fly in cattle. In the case of a number of incidents of BSE outside of the UK there was NO link to UK animal feed or UK livestock, but there was evidence of gross organophosphate pollution... But that's for another thread..
El stovey said:
StevieBee said:
Many Asian countries have what we in the west would see as a very odd approach to food. You only have to catch one of those 'Border Force' type programmes to see the variety of all manner of odd food stuffs that they try to sneak into to the west. Whilst we consider the consumption of dogs and cats as barbaric, many Asian people see the slaughter and consumption of Cows and Lambs in the same light. Food and culture are intertwined and there's little anyone can do and arguably should do on this.
Yeah but their cultural practices are causing global pandemics. If say binge drinking and bingo and fish and chips or chicken tikka masala was causing the same kinds of problems as eating cats and Wuhan markets have caused then I might agree with you.
Go back and read all of my post. I'm not suggesting that customs and culture causes problems but the regulations that surround them (or lack of).
Hopefully we are in the last century of meat, milk and other animal product consumption worldwide, maybe the last half century. Every year the alternatives get better and cheaper. (and I say this as a meat eater).
I would still support some limited use of animals for medical purposes, but otherwise I think we may see an otherwise Vegan world in the lifetimes of any babies born today.
I would still support some limited use of animals for medical purposes, but otherwise I think we may see an otherwise Vegan world in the lifetimes of any babies born today.
andymadmak said:
J4CKO said:
Nope it didn't, but it was an example of doing stuff badly, in an unnatural way that caused a disease.
That rather depends on what you think caused BSE in the first place. The render/animal feed business took the blame, but for some of us who were DEEPLY involved in the industry at the time there was clear and considerable evidence that the outbreak was a result of UK Government advice to farmers regarding the treatment of warble fly in cattle. In the case of a number of incidents of BSE outside of the UK there was NO link to UK animal feed or UK livestock, but there was evidence of gross organophosphate pollution... But that's for another thread..
NRS said:
Pesty said:
Countdown said:
What about the stuff we’re doing now to screw up other countries?
I’m not saying either is acceptable but it’s the height of hypocrisy to try and hold China “accountable” when you look at some of the stuff that the UK and US are involved in.
What stuff and has it caused a global economic meltdown?I’m not saying either is acceptable but it’s the height of hypocrisy to try and hold China “accountable” when you look at some of the stuff that the UK and US are involved in.
China knew about this since November still let people out infecting the world.
And you know the deaths
I've seen the graph which details the similar number viruses originating in the west (although largely historic and eliminated) but can we be a bit more critical of other cultures now in general?
Animal welfare seems to surpass being a political football unlike environmental and human rights abuses. So rather that just arguing over who emits more CO2, or whether we should do business with China, can we all agree it's wrong to eat things alive, and bats in any state?
It all seems quite mild compared to Brits abroad getting pissed up and mooning yet those people simply observing the white working class way of life are considered worse than someone hacking an animal to death in a market.
Animal welfare seems to surpass being a political football unlike environmental and human rights abuses. So rather that just arguing over who emits more CO2, or whether we should do business with China, can we all agree it's wrong to eat things alive, and bats in any state?
It all seems quite mild compared to Brits abroad getting pissed up and mooning yet those people simply observing the white working class way of life are considered worse than someone hacking an animal to death in a market.
Comstock said:
Hopefully we are in the last century of meat, milk and other animal product consumption worldwide, maybe the last half century. Every year the alternatives get better and cheaper. (and I say this as a meat eater).
I would still support some limited use of animals for medical purposes, but otherwise I think we may see an otherwise Vegan world in the lifetimes of any babies born today.
We'll see meat grown from cells soon enough. I would still support some limited use of animals for medical purposes, but otherwise I think we may see an otherwise Vegan world in the lifetimes of any babies born today.
In generations to come the idea of raising a being for several years to have its body eaten in a few minutes, and quite often thrown away without being eaten, will be regarded as as mad and abhorrent as slavery.
geeks said:
Eating of bats isn't the problem though, it's the conditions they store animals in that bought this about, if the disease was started by chickens, would you advocate they stop eating poultry?
Funny (not really) thing is there has been yet another outbreak of bird flu in the last few weeks. Remember when we were all going to die from that? Anyway, it’s (H5N6) in China, Vietnam, the Philippines and, er, Scotland. Not many people have died from that but it has killed a few over the years, China also had an H5N1 outbreak a few weeks ago. That’s the one with 60% mortality in humans. All these outbreaks have been identified as coming from industrial-scale farms, not the BatOnABap places.Edited by bigandclever on Wednesday 18th March 13:58
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