Will China be brought to account?
Discussion
Getragdogleg said:
Craigyp79 said:
Given that Western Countries have never been held to account to the evils that they wrought on the rest of the world in the past I'm not sure why anyone would think that China somehow owes anything to anyone...
Some people did bad stuff years ago so no point telling anyone off for doing bad stuff now. Is that what you are saying?
bigandclever said:
geeks said:
Eating of bats isn't the problem though, it's the conditions they store animals in that bought this about, if the disease was started by chickens, would you advocate they stop eating poultry?
Funny (not really) thing is there has been yet another outbreak of bird flu in the last few weeks. Remember when we were all going to die from that? Anyway, it’s (H5N6) in China, Vietnam, the Philippines and, er, Scotland. Not many people have died from that but it has killed a few over the years, China also had an H5N1 outbreak a few weeks ago. That’s the one with 60% mortality in humans. All these outbreaks have been identified as coming from industrial-scale farms, not the BatOnABap places.Edited by bigandclever on Wednesday 18th March 13:58
Plants. Animals. Humans.
Sustainable distributed communities should be seen as a long-term goal.
It won’t be long until one of these nasties does do some real biological damage to humans.
Cripes, even the economic impact of a novel mild flu cold could be (is) bad enough to cause our unsustainable communities to result in indirect human losses.
jamoor said:
NRS said:
Did you boycott the western world (US?) due to the 2008 crash? That was a global economic crisis, and caused in recent times. Absolutely horrific people these westerns. Should all be shot.
You forgot the slave trade, and the big one - The holocaust.
t.Comstock said:
Hopefully we are in the last century of meat, milk and other animal product consumption worldwide, maybe the last half century. Every year the alternatives get better and cheaper. (and I say this as a meat eater).
I would still support some limited use of animals for medical purposes, but otherwise I think we may see an otherwise Vegan world in the lifetimes of any babies born today.
I hope not, I think we probably do need to cut down on meat a bit, but it would be a shame to see so many species go extinct, and so much land that's not suitable for arable crops go unused.I would still support some limited use of animals for medical purposes, but otherwise I think we may see an otherwise Vegan world in the lifetimes of any babies born today.
R Mutt said:
Getragdogleg said:
Craigyp79 said:
Given that Western Countries have never been held to account to the evils that they wrought on the rest of the world in the past I'm not sure why anyone would think that China somehow owes anything to anyone...
Some people did bad stuff years ago so no point telling anyone off for doing bad stuff now. Is that what you are saying?
Rome invaded Britain, killed thousands and enslaved others, whilst sending vast amounts of materiel back to Rome, during the 4 or so centuries, they occupied these islands. Should Rome now compensate the UK for what they did?
The Vikings raided Britain again killing thousands and taking slaves, goods from the country.as well as taking over land, Should the UK now be asking for compensation for these actions? Next we had the good old Normans who did the same, Should the UK be asking France for compensation for those actions as well.
The UK took over many countries during its carving out of the the British Empire, Some of which have received direct compensation for the UK`s action in the past, But if compensations are to be handed out by various countries for their past actions it must be world wide.
Some appear to think that no matter what the past misdemeanor, the buck it seems is always supposed to stop at the UK`s door.
I wonder why they think that, when just about every other country on the planet, has been guilty of carrying out invasions, killings, and slavery, in its quest for more land riches and slaves. etc, at some time in its past.
Trying to organize in this day and age, who owes what, to who, on a global equal and fair basis, would seem to be almost impossible.
Sambucket said:
Has there been much commentary coming out of China on this? I don’t see much in the uk press about their perspective.
My guess today and the coming weeks focus is on survival but 12 months from now....I could see trade with China falling off. Imagine what a made in China label is going to look like to an Italian, or a US citizen when trump is at the helm.China failed to close the Wet markets and this was bound to happen people have said for years, Swine flu, Bird Flu, now what Bat Flu etc.
av185 said:
Trump is correct it is the China Virus. They have a lot to answer for......
......So as a start simply boycott your local UK Chinese takeaway if they dont go under like the majority of all our businesses will.
Economically amongst other things this will become an absolute bloodbath and run for years.
If possible can you please avoid all paracetamol products and 60% medications in the UK. That have materials or are made in china. I don't share your racist view as a Brit.......So as a start simply boycott your local UK Chinese takeaway if they dont go under like the majority of all our businesses will.
Economically amongst other things this will become an absolute bloodbath and run for years.
Edited by av185 on Wednesday 18th March 10:54
Many thanks.
I shut down our business in China a few years ago, if you ever visit don't just go to the tourist spots, it will change you forever as it did me. I still get nightmares now having visited a "zoo" inside a new industrial estate that was being constructed for western companies to test their products.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11131960/china-dog-m...
“They’ll usually start with the legs because it doesn’t kill the dog, so it means that the adrenaline is pumping around the dog’s system. They believe that the longer they can keep the dog alive while they’re preparing the meat...”
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11131960/china-dog-m...
“They’ll usually start with the legs because it doesn’t kill the dog, so it means that the adrenaline is pumping around the dog’s system. They believe that the longer they can keep the dog alive while they’re preparing the meat...”
This is clearly a very emotive topic but I have some sympathy with the premise behind the original question
China is by no means the only sinner on the planet , but it is probably one of the worst & we would all be better off and much safer economically, in terms of pollution and many other ways if it behaved better
China has very little to recommend it. It is a Global bully that is getting ever stronger.
It is neither a good global citizen nor is it a good neighbour.
In no particular order, all going on right now on a massive scale:
Pollution / use of coal / greenhouse gas emissions/ plastics into the oceans
Human rights abuses / Uigher moslems / Tibetan Buddhists / Taiwan
Animal rights abuses / Animal cruelty / Wet markets / atrocious hygene & food safety (and Viruses)
Military projection into the South China Sea in foreign waters
IPR theft / product design theft / software theft
Currency manipulation / product dumping
Thousands of our citizens will be killed or permanently damaged by this virus, millions will be damaged economically. If it did not come from China I have no doubt we would have heard that in spades from Comrade Xi and his pals - and we have not. The Chinese government is also largely responsible for turning a blind eye to the Wet markets. They closed a lot of them down after SARs but they have allowed them all to open again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPpoJGYlW54
You will never EVER see an apology from the Chinese for this because that would involve a huge loss of face (poor lambs) . But news for them, nobody else much cares for their "face", and what ever reputation and kudos they might have held has long gone.
Basically I think they are a nation run bys (and that extends out into much of their business community).
What can we do about it ? Not much except generally try to avoid buying anything that says "made in China" on it wherever possible.
Its probably all they will understand.
China is by no means the only sinner on the planet , but it is probably one of the worst & we would all be better off and much safer economically, in terms of pollution and many other ways if it behaved better
China has very little to recommend it. It is a Global bully that is getting ever stronger.
It is neither a good global citizen nor is it a good neighbour.
In no particular order, all going on right now on a massive scale:
Pollution / use of coal / greenhouse gas emissions/ plastics into the oceans
Human rights abuses / Uigher moslems / Tibetan Buddhists / Taiwan
Animal rights abuses / Animal cruelty / Wet markets / atrocious hygene & food safety (and Viruses)
Military projection into the South China Sea in foreign waters
IPR theft / product design theft / software theft
Currency manipulation / product dumping
Thousands of our citizens will be killed or permanently damaged by this virus, millions will be damaged economically. If it did not come from China I have no doubt we would have heard that in spades from Comrade Xi and his pals - and we have not. The Chinese government is also largely responsible for turning a blind eye to the Wet markets. They closed a lot of them down after SARs but they have allowed them all to open again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPpoJGYlW54
You will never EVER see an apology from the Chinese for this because that would involve a huge loss of face (poor lambs) . But news for them, nobody else much cares for their "face", and what ever reputation and kudos they might have held has long gone.
Basically I think they are a nation run by
s (and that extends out into much of their business community).What can we do about it ? Not much except generally try to avoid buying anything that says "made in China" on it wherever possible.
Its probably all they will understand.
Edited by Wombat3 on Wednesday 18th March 22:20
otherman said:
Although it's a tough regime, they do want to trade with us, so I don't think they'll let this happen again. Because it's a touch regime, they can enforce what they choose. Not that I'd want to live there.
Somehow I don't think the fact that they "want to trade with us" is even a factor in them not letting it happen again...Wombat3 said:
This is clearly a very emotive topic but I have some sympathy with the premise behind the original question
China is by no means the only sinner on the planet , but it is probably one of the worst & we would all be better off and much safer economically, in terms of pollution and many other ways if it behaved better
China has very little to recommend it. It is a Global bully that is getting ever stronger.
It is neither a good global citizen nor is it a good neighbour.
In no particular order, all going on right now on a massive scale:
Pollution / use of coal / greenhouse gas emissions/ plastics into the oceans
Human rights abuses / Uigher moslems / Tibetan Buddhists / Taiwan
Animal rights abuses / Animal cruelty / Wet markets / atrocious hygene & food safety (and Viruses)
Military projection into the South China Sea in foreign waters
IPR theft / product design theft / software theft
Currency manipulation / product dumping
Thousands of our citizens will be killed or permanently damaged by this virus, millions will be damaged economically. If it did not come from China I have no doubt we would have heard that in spades from Comrade Xi and his pals - and we have not. The Chinese government is also largely responsible for turning a blind eye to the Wet markets. They closed a lot of them down after SARs but they have allowed them all to open again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPpoJGYlW54
You will never EVER see an apology from the Chinese for this because that would involve a huge loss of face (poor lambs) . But news for them, nobody else much cares for their "face", and what ever reputation and kudos they might have held has long gone.
Basically I think they are a nation run bys (and that extends out into much of their business community).
What can we do about it ? Not much except generally try to avoid buying anything that says "made in China" on it wherever possible.
Its probably all they will understand.
Based on your criteria are you also going to boycott goods and services from the US?China is by no means the only sinner on the planet , but it is probably one of the worst & we would all be better off and much safer economically, in terms of pollution and many other ways if it behaved better
China has very little to recommend it. It is a Global bully that is getting ever stronger.
It is neither a good global citizen nor is it a good neighbour.
In no particular order, all going on right now on a massive scale:
Pollution / use of coal / greenhouse gas emissions/ plastics into the oceans
Human rights abuses / Uigher moslems / Tibetan Buddhists / Taiwan
Animal rights abuses / Animal cruelty / Wet markets / atrocious hygene & food safety (and Viruses)
Military projection into the South China Sea in foreign waters
IPR theft / product design theft / software theft
Currency manipulation / product dumping
Thousands of our citizens will be killed or permanently damaged by this virus, millions will be damaged economically. If it did not come from China I have no doubt we would have heard that in spades from Comrade Xi and his pals - and we have not. The Chinese government is also largely responsible for turning a blind eye to the Wet markets. They closed a lot of them down after SARs but they have allowed them all to open again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPpoJGYlW54
You will never EVER see an apology from the Chinese for this because that would involve a huge loss of face (poor lambs) . But news for them, nobody else much cares for their "face", and what ever reputation and kudos they might have held has long gone.
Basically I think they are a nation run by
s (and that extends out into much of their business community).What can we do about it ? Not much except generally try to avoid buying anything that says "made in China" on it wherever possible.
Its probably all they will understand.
Edited by Wombat3 on Wednesday 18th March 22:20
Esceptico said:
Wombat3 said:
This is clearly a very emotive topic but I have some sympathy with the premise behind the original question
China is by no means the only sinner on the planet , but it is probably one of the worst & we would all be better off and much safer economically, in terms of pollution and many other ways if it behaved better
China has very little to recommend it. It is a Global bully that is getting ever stronger.
It is neither a good global citizen nor is it a good neighbour.
In no particular order, all going on right now on a massive scale:
Pollution / use of coal / greenhouse gas emissions/ plastics into the oceans
Human rights abuses / Uigher moslems / Tibetan Buddhists / Taiwan
Animal rights abuses / Animal cruelty / Wet markets / atrocious hygene & food safety (and Viruses)
Military projection into the South China Sea in foreign waters
IPR theft / product design theft / software theft
Currency manipulation / product dumping
Thousands of our citizens will be killed or permanently damaged by this virus, millions will be damaged economically. If it did not come from China I have no doubt we would have heard that in spades from Comrade Xi and his pals - and we have not. The Chinese government is also largely responsible for turning a blind eye to the Wet markets. They closed a lot of them down after SARs but they have allowed them all to open again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPpoJGYlW54
You will never EVER see an apology from the Chinese for this because that would involve a huge loss of face (poor lambs) . But news for them, nobody else much cares for their "face", and what ever reputation and kudos they might have held has long gone.
Basically I think they are a nation run bys (and that extends out into much of their business community).
What can we do about it ? Not much except generally try to avoid buying anything that says "made in China" on it wherever possible.
Its probably all they will understand.
Based on your criteria are you also going to boycott goods and services from the US?China is by no means the only sinner on the planet , but it is probably one of the worst & we would all be better off and much safer economically, in terms of pollution and many other ways if it behaved better
China has very little to recommend it. It is a Global bully that is getting ever stronger.
It is neither a good global citizen nor is it a good neighbour.
In no particular order, all going on right now on a massive scale:
Pollution / use of coal / greenhouse gas emissions/ plastics into the oceans
Human rights abuses / Uigher moslems / Tibetan Buddhists / Taiwan
Animal rights abuses / Animal cruelty / Wet markets / atrocious hygene & food safety (and Viruses)
Military projection into the South China Sea in foreign waters
IPR theft / product design theft / software theft
Currency manipulation / product dumping
Thousands of our citizens will be killed or permanently damaged by this virus, millions will be damaged economically. If it did not come from China I have no doubt we would have heard that in spades from Comrade Xi and his pals - and we have not. The Chinese government is also largely responsible for turning a blind eye to the Wet markets. They closed a lot of them down after SARs but they have allowed them all to open again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPpoJGYlW54
You will never EVER see an apology from the Chinese for this because that would involve a huge loss of face (poor lambs) . But news for them, nobody else much cares for their "face", and what ever reputation and kudos they might have held has long gone.
Basically I think they are a nation run by
s (and that extends out into much of their business community).What can we do about it ? Not much except generally try to avoid buying anything that says "made in China" on it wherever possible.
Its probably all they will understand.
Edited by Wombat3 on Wednesday 18th March 22:20
I would recommend Sam Harris' brilliant podcast.
On that today, the view is that anyone operating in a wet market with a bat in one hand and a panoglin in another, is basically committing an act of biological terrorism.
I don't think that is hyperbole - multiple viruses have originated from these setups; if you want to create weird mutations, then lots of random dead animals dripping fluids over each other in the sun would do that.
They liken it to an act of war - serious scientific types here.
But - it's not an aggressive act. it's an ignorant one. Many people in biology knew of the risk and of the potential for "the big one" (a geneticist i know also doesn't think this is that - imagine if this had similar contagion factor and a 30% mortality rate, and also impacting kids? How would we all be behaving then?); he reckons this is a 1/100 years example, but the "big one" is a 1/1000, but those odds change dramatically if these sort of places are banned forever.
But the Chinese for all their flaws are pretty smart, and plan for the long term. Nothing is worse for business than massive global recession and loss of life. They are never going to display any outward humility of course, but i would be amazed if they didn't quietly sort these places out for good, or aren't doing just that already.
And i'm sure other countries have similar places - i'd be less confident they will do the same without UN elevating the significance. This will prove wet markets are as dangerous to the world as mining uranium..
On that today, the view is that anyone operating in a wet market with a bat in one hand and a panoglin in another, is basically committing an act of biological terrorism.
I don't think that is hyperbole - multiple viruses have originated from these setups; if you want to create weird mutations, then lots of random dead animals dripping fluids over each other in the sun would do that.
They liken it to an act of war - serious scientific types here.
But - it's not an aggressive act. it's an ignorant one. Many people in biology knew of the risk and of the potential for "the big one" (a geneticist i know also doesn't think this is that - imagine if this had similar contagion factor and a 30% mortality rate, and also impacting kids? How would we all be behaving then?); he reckons this is a 1/100 years example, but the "big one" is a 1/1000, but those odds change dramatically if these sort of places are banned forever.
But the Chinese for all their flaws are pretty smart, and plan for the long term. Nothing is worse for business than massive global recession and loss of life. They are never going to display any outward humility of course, but i would be amazed if they didn't quietly sort these places out for good, or aren't doing just that already.
And i'm sure other countries have similar places - i'd be less confident they will do the same without UN elevating the significance. This will prove wet markets are as dangerous to the world as mining uranium..
Edited by cidered77 on Thursday 19th March 00:50
cidered77 said:
But the Chinese for all their flaws are pretty smart, and plan for the long term. Nothing is worse for business than massive global recession and loss of life. They are never going to display any outward humility of course, but i would be amazed if they didn't quietly sort these places out for good, or aren't doing just that already.
The politicos are no different from the ones in the EU. Do they apologise for the economic destruction wrecked upon Southern Europe. It's the money men below them that will wield the power and they are probably seething at what has happened. Their equivalent of Bezos has donated masks and other materials to the US. There's a good chance the vaccine will probably me made/developed there as well.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff