Coronavirus - the killer flu that will wipe us out? (Vol. 5)
Discussion
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/27/doubts...
Guesses for how many orders of magnitude China's figures are under-reported by? At least one surely.
Guesses for how many orders of magnitude China's figures are under-reported by? At least one surely.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Exactly this - we have to be so careful that the consequences of our decisions dont kill more people than the virus. I am not saying we have it wrong at the moment but its a good point that often gets lost in the panic for every greater compensatory measures.isaldiri said:
Earthdweller said:
AJL308 said:
I
So, in what percentage of these deaths is the virus which they are infected with actually an operating cause of the death and how "substantial" is it? Without knowing that then any figures as to deaths are completely and utterly meaningless, surely?
You raise a very pertinent point So, in what percentage of these deaths is the virus which they are infected with actually an operating cause of the death and how "substantial" is it? Without knowing that then any figures as to deaths are completely and utterly meaningless, surely?
Edited by AJL308 on Saturday 28th March 11:49
I was discussing this with my wife ( a nurse ) this morning and it’s rather fascinating
If CV19 is just accelerating deaths amongst people who were going to die imminently anyway it’s one thing
If CV19 is killing lots of otherwise healthy people with no other conditions it’s very different
My discussion this morning got us nowhere really because really as you are saying it’s totally meaningless “deaths with CV19” is way too blunt.
I’m finding it a little funny how many posts are following the same template...
“I went to [insert location here] and there were lots of people. [insert criticism of other people here]”
It’s amazing how quick people are to criticise others without considering their own actions first.
We are turning into a country of curtain twitching grasses. Not a good look imo. I think we all need to realise this isn’t an easy situation to transition to and maybe cut each other a little bit of slack. Sure, by all means tell people when they’re being irresponsible, but starting fights over it and grassing bob up to the police because he left his house 3 times in 24 hrs .... all a little over the top imo.
“I went to [insert location here] and there were lots of people. [insert criticism of other people here]”
It’s amazing how quick people are to criticise others without considering their own actions first.
We are turning into a country of curtain twitching grasses. Not a good look imo. I think we all need to realise this isn’t an easy situation to transition to and maybe cut each other a little bit of slack. Sure, by all means tell people when they’re being irresponsible, but starting fights over it and grassing bob up to the police because he left his house 3 times in 24 hrs .... all a little over the top imo.
Looking to give a bit of better news albeit only local to me. Our bottom field which was under several feet of water a few weeks back is benefiting from the lockdown.
Although it's not actively worked or can be built on because it's a flood plain, although privately owned it's effectively used as a public space with a couple of public rights of way bordering it and there are some permissive paths which cross it.
Since the lockdown the amount of litter deposited has reduced markedly, amazingly so. No pissheads coming back from the pub dropping cans, bottles and takeaway wrappers. No school kids dropping drinks bottles and sweet wrappers. No anglers leaving their discarded tackle, lunch wrappers, empty luncheon meat tins etc. Now if we can only persuade the unwelcome % of dog walkers who don't clear up as the rest of us do we'll have a nice tidy field back.
Although it's not actively worked or can be built on because it's a flood plain, although privately owned it's effectively used as a public space with a couple of public rights of way bordering it and there are some permissive paths which cross it.
Since the lockdown the amount of litter deposited has reduced markedly, amazingly so. No pissheads coming back from the pub dropping cans, bottles and takeaway wrappers. No school kids dropping drinks bottles and sweet wrappers. No anglers leaving their discarded tackle, lunch wrappers, empty luncheon meat tins etc. Now if we can only persuade the unwelcome % of dog walkers who don't clear up as the rest of us do we'll have a nice tidy field back.
frisbee said:
Its not just the people it kills that overload health care systems, it's the ones that recover, they are probably worse because they can occupy a bed for weeks.
Indeed If CV19 is accelerating the deaths of people who were in hospitals anyway, it’s sort of freeing up capacity ( in a perverse way )
If huge numbers of people get sick, need hospitalisation, and a significant % need HDU/ICU to recover with that intervention .. but need treatment for much longer
That is what will break the system ., not people dying
Drove from SW London to the City and back, as needed to pop in for some work stuff, a couple of ambulances on the way which is normal for London.
Tons of cyclists, in pairs and overtaking one another. Less pedestrians but still sizable, including parents with babies in prams.
More vans, scooters and taxis than consumer vehicles but still a busy stream in main roads..
Thought Waitrose Barbican may be quiet, but nope, lines of Zombies waiting outside so didn't bother. Smaller shops appear better, with not more than 6 or so in the queues. Drove past a Tesco Extra and huge queues around car park.
The trouble also is that 2m isn't understood by many, those who leave ,2m in front still have someone behind at 1m.
Loads of scarves covering faces.
Went to the butcher's but a mini queue so will go tomorrow when more are working, they were fully stocked so no meat shortages!
Currently in my local chippy, as some things are worth the risk
No one else here so sitting in waiting for takeaway.
Got a larger order, going to split into portions for the freezer incase chippy gets closes/owner dies
Chippy only takes cash, so had to use a grubby atm and get change.
Mums/parents with babies/kids are biggest surprise, with neighbors all willing to help, why not just stay in.
Tons of cyclists, in pairs and overtaking one another. Less pedestrians but still sizable, including parents with babies in prams.
More vans, scooters and taxis than consumer vehicles but still a busy stream in main roads..
Thought Waitrose Barbican may be quiet, but nope, lines of Zombies waiting outside so didn't bother. Smaller shops appear better, with not more than 6 or so in the queues. Drove past a Tesco Extra and huge queues around car park.
The trouble also is that 2m isn't understood by many, those who leave ,2m in front still have someone behind at 1m.
Loads of scarves covering faces.
Went to the butcher's but a mini queue so will go tomorrow when more are working, they were fully stocked so no meat shortages!
Currently in my local chippy, as some things are worth the risk
No one else here so sitting in waiting for takeaway.Got a larger order, going to split into portions for the freezer incase chippy gets closes/owner dies
Chippy only takes cash, so had to use a grubby atm and get change.
Mums/parents with babies/kids are biggest surprise, with neighbors all willing to help, why not just stay in.
Edited by hyphen on Saturday 28th March 13:11
Jimboka said:
Carl_Manchester said:
supermarket update is that local sainsbury's is now almost fully restocked with some exceptions. toilet roll in abundance. I had to queue for an hour to get in mind, from 8am. the new holy grail is now tinned tomatoes, after a while of not seeing one, i felt like indiana jones lifting up one of the last cans.
the priority deliveries to over 70s have been working fine for my parents using click and deliver.
It’s not any over 70 though, only if in the vulnerable list.. My 79 year old mum can’t get a look in. She’s especially mad as they took her £20 a quarter delivery fee yesterday too! She’s binning them asap. The home delivery services have badly let us all downthe priority deliveries to over 70s have been working fine for my parents using click and deliver.
Earthdweller said:
But, in a serious post why was it ok for you to be in that car park and not the people who had parked cars in it ?
My first thought too, probably because a certain proportion of the nation want to be little hitlers and tell others what they can and cannot do.He states dog owners in his post, (so against these) yet he's there on a bike.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The Big Pharma company I work for is developing a recombinant antibody therapy to bypass the need for convalescent sera. Essentially generating neutralising monoclonal antibodies (or antibody fragments) outside of the immune system as a therapeutic. I used to work in this area before I ended up behind a laptop. Its got potential, but a number of potential pitfalls.We're also developing a vaccine and I heard there was some talk of looking at using the soluble regions of the ACE2 receptor to out-compete the real ACE2 receptors in the lungs.
Or Company has also donated 9 million masks to UK healthcare professionals.
Promised Land said:
Earthdweller said:
But, in a serious post why was it ok for you to be in that car park and not the people who had parked cars in it ?
My first thought too, probably because a certain proportion of the nation want to be little hitlers and tell others what they can and cannot do.He states dog owners in his post, (so against these) yet he's there on a bike.
I'm struggling with the irony of going 5-10 miles on a bike and feeling like you're in a position to tell someone their journey isn't essential even when it clearly isn't.
Do we really want to get to the point where there are designated maximum distances for exercise though?
No but that's where it'll likely end up so long as everyone persuades themselves they're OK because "the rules say I can do it".
Saweep said:
I live slap bang in the middle of Birmingham City centre and from my windows I can see a good part of the city.
It's a total ghost town. There is nobody about.
My building is mostly empty too as I presume people have run to parents etc in other parts of the country.
I've been going for a walk for an hour through the city the last few days and haven't seen either a single policeman or anyone breaking the "rules".
There's no mass disobedience going on here. "locking the city down" with roadblocks etc would just be a waste of police resources as it's not needed.
It's Groundhog Day round here.It's a total ghost town. There is nobody about.
My building is mostly empty too as I presume people have run to parents etc in other parts of the country.
I've been going for a walk for an hour through the city the last few days and haven't seen either a single policeman or anyone breaking the "rules".
There's no mass disobedience going on here. "locking the city down" with roadblocks etc would just be a waste of police resources as it's not needed.
RTB said:
The Big Pharma company I work for is developing a recombinant antibody therapy to bypass the need for convalescent sera. Essentially generating neutralising monoclonal antibodies (or antibody fragments) outside of the immune system as a therapeutic. I used to work in this area before I ended up behind a laptop. Its got potential, but a number of potential pitfalls.
Cyanide apparently has similar issuesGassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff