Coronavirus - the killer flu that will wipe us out? (Vol. 5)

[steveatesh]

Penelope Stopit said:

NHS staff state that they are short of PPE

Goverment states there is enough PPE for NHS staff

I believe the NHS staff

What do posters here think about this?

Interesting. I’m curious as to how you know when to believe people and how you know not to believe people, especially when you are talking about anecdotal evidence at best?

As an aside, and another piece of anecdotal evidence a close family member works in an nhs facility and staff were complaining about lack of PPE. The management insisted they were compliant with PHE guidelines. Last Friday the guidelines apparently changed and management opens a store packed to the rafters with PPE.

So government were correct in that instance, but so were the nhs staff. The problem were management and apparently PHE guidelines.

My own view is that you would be extremely unlikely to have a situation where all NhS staff had the PPE they needed (or felt they needed) in every situation up and down the land at all times.

The ones who don’t will be vocal and get on the news. The others will be ignored by the press as it doesn’t for their narrative.

[Matty3]

Exige77 said:

There are 100,000s PPE used every day. Sure you can find a few that are complaining but the vast majority have got their PPE.

It’s not something that can be magicked out now of thin air. There are 1,000s of point of use around the country and all have different demands each day depending on their patients.

This daily quest by the media to get “someone” in authority to apologise for their failings is quite ridiculous.

They are doing their very best.

It’s never going to be perfect.

Exige77 you have posted some of the most informative stuff on here from your first hand information from day 1 - I, for one, am really appreciative of this - you must be extremely proud to have a daughter fighting this outrage

[sim72]

Matty3 said:

sim72 said:

Matty3 said:

sim72 said:

Herd immunity, I hear you say?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/10/less...

Don't you love the guardian - the last bastion of hope, reason and sensible reporting - read and believe?

Well, you could read it in the New York Times or the original Reuters feed where it originally came from if that makes you feel better?
https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/04/10/world/e...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavi...

It's the press - tell you what, try scratching the surface and then if you are brave scratch a little deeper and read the whole article and make up YOUR own mind instead of just posting a link to an article you claerly havn't read.

I did actually read the whole article, although I don't know why I bothered since it appears to provide a different angle to the usual PH narrative, and will therefore be generally ignored.

[FiF]

TeamD said:

FiF said:

I think it's partly a case of selective reporting. Someone saying we're ok on PPE, not news, ignored. Someone saying we don't have enough or the right PPE, screamed from the rooftops.

Having said that I believe that there will be some who do not have, or consider they do not have the correct or sufficient PPE. The word some in that sentence covers anyone throughout the medical and social care community incl private sector not just front line NHS hospital ICUs.

My Mrs has been a tad dischuffed about the PPE that was destined for her staff (care home for folk with severe learning disabilities) being "diverted" to the NHS, ended up with next to f all in the way of masks etc. It's not just the NHS that needs this stuff.

As I said, there will be people caring for others, in the widest possible sense, who don't have the necessary, possibly even any, PPE. It's crucial that these are identified, incl the reason why, and the issue resolved urgently.

For example, at the most basic level, suppose a member of a family catches it, ill but basically coping with it. What PPE do the rest of that family have, or ability to access for use while that family member follows advice and isolates in a separate bedroom and own bathroom for the fortunate ones not in a small dwelling with just enough bedrooms for normal life and one bathroom. PPE? Sufficient cleaning kit?

[Robertj21a]

zarjaz_ said:

i4got said:

I think the Government are sending a message to the 'established' press about the quality of their performance by including Buzzfeed and Lad Bible questions in the last couple of press conferences. I suspect that the Daily Mash may be next on the list and the worrying thing is you won't be able to differentiate their question from the BBC or Sky.

Buzzfeed were on about a week ago as well, and in fact their question was not too bad compared to the others.

The mainstream media have been utterly appalling throughout this. Every last one of them. Shameful.

Journalists I used to have some respect for have had that blown out of the water. I hope there is a reckoning afterwards and we get some decent journalistic standards, but I'm not holding my breath.

+1 A totally hopeless shower.

[Cold]

Robertj21a said:

zarjaz_ said:

i4got said:

I think the Government are sending a message to the 'established' press about the quality of their performance by including Buzzfeed and Lad Bible questions in the last couple of press conferences. I suspect that the Daily Mash may be next on the list and the worrying thing is you won't be able to differentiate their question from the BBC or Sky.

Buzzfeed were on about a week ago as well, and in fact their question was not too bad compared to the others.

The mainstream media have been utterly appalling throughout this. Every last one of them. Shameful.

Journalists I used to have some respect for have had that blown out of the water. I hope there is a reckoning afterwards and we get some decent journalistic standards, but I'm not holding my breath.

+1 A totally hopeless shower.

Also, LadBible has a huge reach across social media. More than the mainstream news outlets combined and more specifically in the demographic that is still having parties/BBQs/going surfing etc.

[Matty3]

sim72 said:

Matty3 said:

sim72 said:

Matty3 said:

sim72 said:

Herd immunity, I hear you say?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/10/less...

Don't you love the guardian - the last bastion of hope, reason and sensible reporting - read and believe?

Well, you could read it in the New York Times or the original Reuters feed where it originally came from if that makes you feel better?
https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/04/10/world/e...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavi...

It's the press - tell you what, try scratching the surface and then if you are brave scratch a little deeper and read the whole article and make up YOUR own mind instead of just posting a link to an article you claerly havn't read.

I did actually read the whole article, although I don't know why I bothered since it appears to provide a different angle to the usual PH narrative, and will therefore be generally ignored.

Yep because it contains nothing of any investigative,material substance, it's a column inches puff - so doesn't stand up - next!

[shed driver]

Last night I was working, as I have for the previous 3 nights on a Covid positive ward. PPE is a problem at times. There are different types of masks that fit different people, facial shape differs. We ran out of the mask I can wear, so I had to change to the one I knew I had failed a fit test on until I could get resupplied. There's plenty of medium and small gloves, not so many large ones, so mine are ripping doing patient care or procedures.

My main concern is the mental health issues. I made a video call to a relative last night so she could say goodbye to her mother.

At 5am I made another call informing her that her mother was dead. All she could say was "thank you"

I sat and cried. This is not how I envisaged ending my nursing career.

Oh, I've got three colleagues who have developed symptoms off my ward. PPE guidance was changed about 2 weeks before they went off. One is not expected to survive.

SD

[Penelope Stopit]

Matty3 said:

Penelope Stopit said:

NHS staff state that they are short of PPE

Goverment states there is enough PPE for NHS staff

I believe the NHS staff

What do posters here think about this?

Please elaborate on your assertion Pen - more information please would be useful

Last night BBC World News stated that a hospital in Newcastle was short of PPE and tonight there was a comment from someone that wished to remain anonymous that staff were only given masks for protection, I didn't hear which hospital Mr anonymous was working at

Please bear in mind that my posts are never politically biased in any way as I have little faith in politicians no matter what party they represent

I guess my above statement will piss anyone off that spends several hours a day here pissing others off by defending a government that they voted in rather than looking from outside the box

Back on topic

A few replies to my question have enlightened me

There may be a few hospitals that have had a problem and the idiots that work for the media have jumped on the story and blown it all out of proportion

Wondering if there is a website that records the hospitals that are having problems with shortages of PPE

There should be no stone left un-turned

Saddened by so many deaths worldwide

Keep well all

[zarjaz_]

Cold said:

Also, LadBible has a huge reach across social media. More than the mainstream news outlets combined and more specifically in the demographic that is still having parties/BBQs/going surfing etc.

Agreed although let's be fair, the number still having parties etc is very, very small indeed, despite the shameful media efforts to encourage stricter restrictions by claiming it's widespread.

[FiF]

Moving on I have a question. We're trying to follow Govt advice and rules as far as possible. Slight aside, the main difficulty we have is a working gundog, used to 3 walks a day, covering 4/5 miles a day minimum, that's us, not him covering more. So he's down to out max one hour a day, the walk split between two of us and using areas where can be sure no one else about or SD definitely achievable at 20m or more.

Apart from that we just are not going out. Been to a shop once in the last month and a bit. Cut right down on meals to make stuff last. Suppose will have to go to pharmacy in a couple of weeks but that's it. Yet on PH the Aldi/ Lidl thread is just carrying on as normal. Only today, ooh there's a nice lemon and raspberry cake, so nice went back and got two more.

Maybe it's just me but I don't get it. Then people complain about the repeated message from Govt briefings about stay at home. It's not just don't go to Scarborough for the day, but anything else carry on. Then maybe just being a Wailing Willie doom merchant, plenty of those about and on this thread.

[Penelope Stopit]

shed driver said:

Last night I was working, as I have for the previous 3 nights on a Covid positive ward. PPE is a problem at times. There are different types of masks that fit different people, facial shape differs. We ran out of the mask I can wear, so I had to change to the one I knew I had failed a fit test on until I could get resupplied. There's plenty of medium and small gloves, not so many large ones, so mine are ripping doing patient care or procedures.

My main concern is the mental health issues. I made a video call to a relative last night so she could say goodbye to her mother.

At 5am I made another call informing her that her mother was dead. All she could say was "thank you"

I sat and cried. This is not how I envisaged ending my nursing career.

Oh, I've got three colleagues who have developed symptoms off my ward. PPE guidance was changed about 2 weeks before they went off. One is not expected to survive.

SD

Feeling for you very much although that is of no help to you

Keep well

[sim72]

Matty3 said:

sim72 said:

Matty3 said:

sim72 said:

Matty3 said:

sim72 said:

Herd immunity, I hear you say?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/10/less...

Don't you love the guardian - the last bastion of hope, reason and sensible reporting - read and believe?

Well, you could read it in the New York Times or the original Reuters feed where it originally came from if that makes you feel better?
https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/04/10/world/e...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavi...

It's the press - tell you what, try scratching the surface and then if you are brave scratch a little deeper and read the whole article and make up YOUR own mind instead of just posting a link to an article you claerly havn't read.

I did actually read the whole article, although I don't know why I bothered since it appears to provide a different angle to the usual PH narrative, and will therefore be generally ignored.

Yep because it contains nothing of any investigative,material substance, it's a column inches puff - so doesn't stand up - next!

A government-funded study in association with the Red Cross and the University of Vienna is "puff". My point proved, I believe. Thank you.

[K77 CTR]

We are having similar issues with some of the ffp3 masks being out of stock but otherwise our trust has been pretty good at getting the ppe. At the start of all this ALOT of it was stolen by staff and also misused on the ward secondary to hysteria sweeping through the wards.

Our trust has to make sure they have 48 hours of ppe at all times and I wonder if other trusts have just misjudged the amount the were needing to order from the central stock at the start.

Personally I have not had an issue with our trust and PPE.

[Penelope Stopit]

steveatesh said:

Penelope Stopit said:

NHS staff state that they are short of PPE

Goverment states there is enough PPE for NHS staff

I believe the NHS staff

What do posters here think about this?

Interesting. I’m curious as to how you know when to believe people and how you know not to believe people, especially when you are talking about anecdotal evidence at best?

As an aside, and another piece of anecdotal evidence a close family member works in an nhs facility and staff were complaining about lack of PPE. The management insisted they were compliant with PHE guidelines. Last Friday the guidelines apparently changed and management opens a store packed to the rafters with PPE.

So government were correct in that instance, but so were the nhs staff. The problem were management and apparently PHE guidelines.

My own view is that you would be extremely unlikely to have a situation where all NhS staff had the PPE they needed (or felt they needed) in every situation up and down the land at all times.

The ones who don’t will be vocal and get on the news. The others will be ignored by the press as it doesn’t for their narrative.

The BBC told me

[EddieSteadyGo]

sim72 said:

I did actually read the whole article, although I don't know why I bothered since it appears to provide a different angle to the usual PH narrative, and will therefore be generally ignored.

What point do you think the article makes which we are missing? Is it that herd immunity isn't viable because less than 1% are currently infected in Austria? Why is that a logical conclusion?

To keep the numbers simple if 1% tested positive in the 1st week of April, then considering the spread prior to the lockdown it might be the case that perhaps 5% overall have been infected in Austria.

The question that suggests to me is did they introduce their lockdown too early?

[Matty3]

Penelope Stopit said:

Matty3 said:

Penelope Stopit said:

NHS staff state that they are short of PPE

Goverment states there is enough PPE for NHS staff

I believe the NHS staff

What do posters here think about this?

Please elaborate on your assertion Pen - more information please would be useful

Last night BBC World News stated that a hospital in Newcastle was short of PPE and tonight there was a comment from someone that wished to remain anonymous that staff were only given masks for protection, I didn't hear which hospital Mr anonymous was working at

Please bear in mind that my posts are never politically biased in any way as I have little faith in politicians no matter what party they represent

I guess my above statement will piss anyone off that spends several hours a day here pissing others off by defending a government that they voted in rather than looking from outside the box

Back on topic

A few replies to my question have enlightened me

There may be a few hospitals that have had a problem and the idiots that work for the media have jumped on the story and blown it all out of proportion

Wondering if there is a website that records the hospitals that are having problems with shortages of PPE

There should be no stone left un-turned

Saddened by so many deaths worldwide

Keep well all

Agree with you - no faith in politicians whatsoever, but far, far less faith in the press - who on earth can you believe? - ALWAYS look outside the box

Stay safe - we will be sadder as the worldwide toll is only going one way

[andy_s]

shed driver said:

Last night I was working, as I have for the previous 3 nights on a Covid positive ward. PPE is a problem at times. There are different types of masks that fit different people, facial shape differs. We ran out of the mask I can wear, so I had to change to the one I knew I had failed a fit test on until I could get resupplied. There's plenty of medium and small gloves, not so many large ones, so mine are ripping doing patient care or procedures.

My main concern is the mental health issues. I made a video call to a relative last night so she could say goodbye to her mother.

At 5am I made another call informing her that her mother was dead. All she could say was "thank you"

I sat and cried. This is not how I envisaged ending my nursing career.

Oh, I've got three colleagues who have developed symptoms off my ward. PPE guidance was changed about 2 weeks before they went off. One is not expected to survive.

SD

Sobering stuff SD. Stay well.

[Penelope Stopit]

Matty3 said:

Penelope Stopit said:

Matty3 said:

Penelope Stopit said:

NHS staff state that they are short of PPE

Goverment states there is enough PPE for NHS staff

I believe the NHS staff

What do posters here think about this?

Please elaborate on your assertion Pen - more information please would be useful

Last night BBC World News stated that a hospital in Newcastle was short of PPE and tonight there was a comment from someone that wished to remain anonymous that staff were only given masks for protection, I didn't hear which hospital Mr anonymous was working at

Please bear in mind that my posts are never politically biased in any way as I have little faith in politicians no matter what party they represent

I guess my above statement will piss anyone off that spends several hours a day here pissing others off by defending a government that they voted in rather than looking from outside the box

Back on topic

A few replies to my question have enlightened me

There may be a few hospitals that have had a problem and the idiots that work for the media have jumped on the story and blown it all out of proportion

Wondering if there is a website that records the hospitals that are having problems with shortages of PPE

There should be no stone left un-turned

Saddened by so many deaths worldwide

Keep well all

Agree with you - no faith in politicians whatsoever, but far, far less faith in the press - who on earth can you believe? - ALWAYS look outside the box

Stay safe - we will be sadder as the worldwide toll is only going one way

You too stay safe Matty3

[Matty3]

[quote=sim72]

A government-funded study in association with the Red Cross and the University of Vienna is "puff". My point proved, I believe. Thank you.[/quote

And in the aisles a madman smiles