Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party?
Discussion
jakesmith said:
Jeremy already tried to smear them, possibly to the sigh of relief of some of his grottier supporters who found a way of mentally allowing their nastiness off the hook.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/01/j...
I was reading this a couple of days ago and hadn't twigged the timing was probably because the report was due to land this week.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/01/j...
I was Corbyn's chief of staff. We acted decisively to remove Labour antisemites
One sentence that stood out was "under Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership, antisemites were removed from the Labour party more quickly, transparently and effectively than ever before".
Now admittedly I pay a lot more attention to politics these days than I used to but was antisemitism even an issue in Labour before Corbyn?
I don't recall hearing of it under Miliband or Blair or Brown which is about as far back as I can remember.
markyb_lcy said:
Now if he/they could just grow some balls and vote against the govt on something. Anything.
The 10pm curfew was a perfect opportunity. Tory rebels were there to ensure a defeat, measure is not evidenced, and has (anecdotally) very little public support.
Fantastic opportunity to inflict a bloody nose, simply not taken.
Poor show.
Aside from that, I think he’s playing the long game to electability well.
I think your last sentence is the reason he's not going all stroppy now. There's too long to go to the next election for any advantage he might gain to last. He's got time on his side. He can work away, sorting his mps, for ages before he has to do anything noteworthy. Johnson, on the other hand, has to get everything right, not something that appears to be his strong suit. If I was Starmer, I'd wait awhile and I think Johnson will make a big mistake sooner or later. Starmer will want it to be later I assume.The 10pm curfew was a perfect opportunity. Tory rebels were there to ensure a defeat, measure is not evidenced, and has (anecdotally) very little public support.
Fantastic opportunity to inflict a bloody nose, simply not taken.
Poor show.
Aside from that, I think he’s playing the long game to electability well.
He does seem to be a planner. If so, then I would assume his plan is for the top job. That's probably how we should judge him; is he on target for PM sort of thing.
Starmer's got problems with his party. He needs to sort them into manageable bits and delete them one at a time. He's got to make himself electable rather than just better than Johnson as if the latter does drop a big one then the party will divest themselves of him before the next GE and his replacement is hardly likely to be worse and will come without baggage (let's face it, it's unlikely to be anyone who was a decision-maker in the Covid response).
Johson's win was down to the historical labour strongholds changing sides because of brexit. Starmer hasn't, to my knowledge, berated them for that. If brexit goes bent then one might assume Starmer will not blame the decision but the management of leave. I think the next election could be fascinating. A real cliff-hanger, with lots of lots of subplots. I'm looking forward to it.
Derek Smith said:
I think your last sentence is the reason he's not going all stroppy now. There's too long to go to the next election for any advantage he might gain to last. He's got time on his side. He can work away, sorting his mps, for ages before he has to do anything noteworthy. Johnson, on the other hand, has to get everything right, not something that appears to be his strong suit. If I was Starmer, I'd wait awhile and I think Johnson will make a big mistake sooner or later. Starmer will want it to be later I assume.
He does seem to be a planner. If so, then I would assume his plan is for the top job. That's probably how we should judge him; is he on target for PM sort of thing.
Starmer's got problems with his party. He needs to sort them into manageable bits and delete them one at a time. He's got to make himself electable rather than just better than Johnson as if the latter does drop a big one then the party will divest themselves of him before the next GE and his replacement is hardly likely to be worse and will come without baggage (let's face it, it's unlikely to be anyone who was a decision-maker in the Covid response).
Johson's win was down to the historical labour strongholds changing sides because of brexit. Starmer hasn't, to my knowledge, berated them for that. If brexit goes bent then one might assume Starmer will not blame the decision but the management of leave. I think the next election could be fascinating. A real cliff-hanger, with lots of lots of subplots. I'm looking forward to it.
Good post. I can't help but wonder if Starmer will even be up against Johnson in the next election; that might explain the quite nasty attacks already starting on Sunak to poison the well. Now that would be interesting; a youthful very intelligent self made asian millionaire in the blue corner vs. an older very intelligent self made millionaire in the red... they've correctly realised they need to get the attack ads in now if that's how it's going to shape up.He does seem to be a planner. If so, then I would assume his plan is for the top job. That's probably how we should judge him; is he on target for PM sort of thing.
Starmer's got problems with his party. He needs to sort them into manageable bits and delete them one at a time. He's got to make himself electable rather than just better than Johnson as if the latter does drop a big one then the party will divest themselves of him before the next GE and his replacement is hardly likely to be worse and will come without baggage (let's face it, it's unlikely to be anyone who was a decision-maker in the Covid response).
Johson's win was down to the historical labour strongholds changing sides because of brexit. Starmer hasn't, to my knowledge, berated them for that. If brexit goes bent then one might assume Starmer will not blame the decision but the management of leave. I think the next election could be fascinating. A real cliff-hanger, with lots of lots of subplots. I'm looking forward to it.
fblm said:
a youthful very intelligent self made asian millionaire in the blue corner vs. an older very intelligent self made millionaire in the red...
It's actually looking up a bit for British politics in my opinion - not exactly green shoots of recovery but at least some slightly more normal people in view.gizlaroc said:
jakesmith said:
For those of us lucky enough to be going out on the pingers to the afore mentioned list of salubrious night spots, and to our Northern Bretherin of the Sankeys, Hacienda, Shelley’s Lazerdrome, Nation, Republic Bugged Out, Bonds, up ye Ronsen, Back 2 Basics, Progress, Moneypennys, Cream, Gatecrasher, Renaissance fraternity... I truly believe up till Covid we experienced the peak of western civilisation and hedonism. Pre social media, post MDMA... truly the sweet spot.
Absolutely. The parties before that. Meeting up at a car park, waiting for the phone call, then the mad dash to the warehouse or barn where everyone rushed to get in before the police blocked it off.
Partying till the next day where the only thing in common you had with the person next to you, who you had only met that night, being the music and the love of what was going on.
Absolutely no barriers, be it colour, gender, football team even, it was all just everyone there for the buzz. No aggression or any nasty vibe in the air, just a genuinely laid back time that was felt by all. Truly magical times.
fblm said:
Good post. I can't help but wonder if Starmer will even be up against Johnson in the next election; that might explain the quite nasty attacks already starting on Sunak to poison the well. Now that would be interesting; a youthful very intelligent self made asian millionaire in the blue corner vs. an older very intelligent self made millionaire in the red... they've correctly realised they need to get the attack ads in now if that's how it's going to shape up.
I'm quite impressed by Sunak. I'd bet on him against Starmer, but not by much. That's if the voters are ready for an Asian PM. I think so. They said Thatcher didn't stand much of a chance being a woman, and look how that turned out. Is the tory party ready for an Asian leader? More problematical. I assume you are being deiberately understated when you suggest a head-to-head between them would merely be interesting.
I doubt if Boris will last much beyond Brexit. That was our opinion this time last year- hell get the job done, then move aside/be removed. Obviously Covid has thrown all sorts of spanners in the works...
The power play will be interesting. Will Gove pass up another chance at leadership? Not without a long, bloody fight. Perhaps as convoluted or viscious as the libden/ labour leadership. But bloody.
This will be Starmers chance, if he can distance himself from tommorows news (if there is anything to distance them from- I expect there will be). He has time, and needs to waif unfil Bodis is gone. I agree Rishi v Kier would be great for the UK. Gove v Starmer less so.
The power play will be interesting. Will Gove pass up another chance at leadership? Not without a long, bloody fight. Perhaps as convoluted or viscious as the libden/ labour leadership. But bloody.
This will be Starmers chance, if he can distance himself from tommorows news (if there is anything to distance them from- I expect there will be). He has time, and needs to waif unfil Bodis is gone. I agree Rishi v Kier would be great for the UK. Gove v Starmer less so.
Derek Smith said:
I'm quite impressed by Sunak. I'd bet on him against Starmer, but not by much. That's if the voters are ready for an Asian PM. I think so. They said Thatcher didn't stand much of a chance being a woman, and look how that turned out. Is the tory party ready for an Asian leader? More problematical.
I assume you are being deiberately understated when you suggest a head-to-head between them would merely be interesting.
Torys would love a Muslim PM ... not the old duffers but the normal ones... whilst Labour, the party of diversity, gets castigated for racism whilst being led by another old white man, the only demographic that they have ever chosen as their leader. I assume you are being deiberately understated when you suggest a head-to-head between them would merely be interesting.
jakesmith said:
Derek Smith said:
I'm quite impressed by Sunak. I'd bet on him against Starmer, but not by much. That's if the voters are ready for an Asian PM. I think so. They said Thatcher didn't stand much of a chance being a woman, and look how that turned out. Is the tory party ready for an Asian leader? More problematical.
I assume you are being deiberately understated when you suggest a head-to-head between them would merely be interesting.
Torys would love a Muslim PM ... not the old duffers but the normal ones... whilst Labour, the party of diversity, gets castigated for racism whilst being led by another old white man, the only demographic that they have ever chosen as their leader. I assume you are being deiberately understated when you suggest a head-to-head between them would merely be interesting.
jakesmith said:
markyb_lcy said:
Tony Blair was 41 when he became leader of the Labour Party. Just sayin’
Yes you’re absolutely right, that was unprecedented though and the years as PM weren’t exactly kind on him!
jakesmith said:
markyb_lcy said:
I don’t think the job is kind on any of them! It’s a tough job and will take a lot out of even the best and brightest.
Yeah yeah 100%Old white man by the end though right?
well all white men turn into old white men unless they pop it early.Tories have had two female PMs / leaders. Ok, it’s two more than Labour, but it’s not exactly a groundbreaking difference. One of them was thrown under a bus in pretty spectacular fashion. Actually they both kind of were.
I’d like to see more women (and people of colour) make PM / Leader of parties, but I don’t believe in positive discrimination to achieve it.
jakesmith said:
You didn’t rate Angela Eagle? She even had a pink thing going on
Her leadership launch event was possibly the most pathetic, soulless Labour event I’ve ever seen, and we are spoilt for choice.I voted for Yvette Cooper in the that first election that Corbyn won.
Btw while we are on it, Harriet Harman has technically held the position Leader of the Opposition (acting Labour leader) for two periods of 4 months
classic pub quiz question.biggbn said:
jakesmith said:
Selling one's soul to the Devil will age a man...
I'd still have him back over the current offerings, drones or no drones!
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