Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party?

Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party?

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Discussion

Sway

23,183 posts

171 months

Saturday 14th May
quotequote all
anonymoususer said:
bhstewie said:
Competency in getting your message across matters too though.

Blair sweeping into office is a little before my time in terms of paying too much attention but I expect he was all over the media building up Labours profile and getting their message across?

I just don't see that with Starmer and I don't know what the message is.
I thought you were nearer our age ?
Anyway that was pretty much how it went. The Tories were in disarray and Labour looked new and exciting. The charm offensive was well thought out. He appeared as you put it all over and to some political commentators it was surprising

Education, education, education was one of the messages
He also took Kinnock's suppression of the loony elements, and ramped it up to eleven - and recognised that the biggest barrier to putting an X against a Labour candidate was their economic record, so pledged to copy the Tories' homework for the first years.

El stovey

42,084 posts

240 months

Saturday 14th May
quotequote all
Hey don’t waste your evening arguing about Starmer. . . Eurovision is on.

Usually one of the best threads of the year!

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...




turbobloke

96,118 posts

237 months

Saturday 14th May
quotequote all
El stovey said:
Hey don’t waste your evening arguing about Starmer. . . Eurovision is on.

Usually one of the best threads of the year!

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
The Europoliticalversion Song Contest?

News report reckoned ours is the best but Ukraine won it already, we'll see.

If only Starmer could sing.

Cold

12,800 posts

67 months

Saturday 14th May
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
If only Starmer could sing.
There would be nothing original, only cover songs.

leef44

2,763 posts

130 months

Saturday 14th May
quotequote all
biggbn said:
Agreed, watching them just now is like watching a penalty shoot out where one team is so arrogant it doesn't bother putting a keeper between the sticks, yet the other one keeps blasting it over the bar.
I love this analysis - it sums up politics right now

biggbn

13,194 posts

197 months

Sunday 15th May
quotequote all
Sad to see Milliband being used as a cheerleading talking head on Sophie just now. Labour are doing jist what the Tores did and wheeling out people to defend the gaffer regardless.

Vasco

12,663 posts

82 months

Sunday 15th May
quotequote all
A bit of a poor show when you look back at the various leaders over, say, the past 50 years.

Of those who really impressed, and got things done, we seem to have just Blair (initially) and Thatcher.

A poor overall show of leaders.

saaby93

30,930 posts

155 months

Sunday 15th May
quotequote all
Vasco said:
A bit of a poor show when you look back at the various leaders over, say, the past 50 years.

Of those who really impressed, and got things done, we seem to have just Blair (initially) and Thatcher.

A poor overall show of leaders.
There's no doubt that Thatcher and Blair were leaders but dont forget Major.
He was in a very tricky position with a divided party with little majority but put in place the measures to open up the way for Northern Ireland.

biggbn

13,194 posts

197 months

Sunday 15th May
quotequote all
Vasco said:
A bit of a poor show when you look back at the various leaders over, say, the past 50 years.

Of those who really impressed, and got things done, we seem to have just Blair (initially) and Thatcher.

A poor overall show of leaders.
Cameron would be, I think, remembered with some degree of respect were it not for Brexit.

BrabusMog

18,614 posts

163 months

Sunday 15th May
quotequote all
biggbn said:
Sad to see Milliband being used as a cheerleading talking head on Sophie just now. Labour are doing jist what the Tores did and wheeling out people to defend the gaffer regardless.
He’s such an odious specimen.

Cobnapint

7,923 posts

128 months

Sunday 15th May
quotequote all
Just shows how low the bar has become if Ed-stone is being wheeled out as a paragon of Labour leadership qualities.

biggbn

13,194 posts

197 months

Sunday 15th May
quotequote all
BrabusMog said:
biggbn said:
Sad to see Milliband being used as a cheerleading talking head on Sophie just now. Labour are doing jist what the Tores did and wheeling out people to defend the gaffer regardless.
He’s such an odious specimen.
I didn't mind him, never a leader, but I always had him pegged as a rather open minded thinker. To see him wheeled out to toe a party line and defend the invisible man saddens me. They should be watching the derision the Tories recieved for their conveyor belt of lap dogs defending Johnson rather and avoiding that tactic rather than jumping on an unsavoury bandwagon

saaby93

30,930 posts

155 months

Sunday 15th May
quotequote all
biggbn said:
Vasco said:
A bit of a poor show when you look back at the various leaders over, say, the past 50 years.

Of those who really impressed, and got things done, we seem to have just Blair (initially) and Thatcher.

A poor overall show of leaders.
Cameron would be, I think, remembered with some degree of respect were it not for Brexit.
Someone had to sort out Brexit (or UKexit) it had been festering for years
May too seemed to evolve a useful implementation but the party wouldnt go for it
In the end Johnson having followed through on Camerons Brexit could end up implementing Mays agreement.
For everything said about Johnson he seems to bumble from one side to the other trying to bring each side closer together

Murph7355

32,827 posts

233 months

Sunday 15th May
quotequote all
biggbn said:
Sad to see Milliband being used as a cheerleading talking head on Sophie just now. Labour are doing jist what the Tores did and wheeling out people to defend the gaffer regardless.
There should be no surprise to this whatsoever.

With very few exceptions, they. are. all. the. same. Some just wear a preferable suit, better hair cut or have a turn of phrase/demeanour that is more appealing to some than others. People just get sucked in by the veneeer. (Let's face it, there is absolutely no way anyone could be preferring Starmer for his policies right now!).

El Stovey's poll assessment was interesting - that SKS had his biggest lead in the polls when he'd been away from the media and nobody heard from him. That might make an interesting quality of a prime minister.

CoolHands

15,026 posts

172 months

Sunday 15th May
quotequote all
DM running a story saying they’re going to drop Angela in it as no proof she did any work after beergate. Whereas everyone else has emails or whatsapp messages to supposedly ’prove’ (yeah right) they did go back to work. So are there internal machinations at play to protect kier and stiff Angela?

Vasco

12,663 posts

82 months

Sunday 15th May
quotequote all
CoolHands said:
DM running a story saying they’re going to drop Angela in it as no proof she did any work after beergate. Whereas everyone else has emails or whatsapp messages to supposedly ’prove’ (yeah right) they did go back to work. So are there internal machinations at play to protect kier and stiff Angela?
Too busy crossing her legs ?

andy43

7,801 posts

231 months

Sunday 15th May
quotequote all
biggbn said:
BrabusMog said:
biggbn said:
Sad to see Milliband being used as a cheerleading talking head on Sophie just now. Labour are doing jist what the Tores did and wheeling out people to defend the gaffer regardless.
He’s such an odious specimen.
I didn't mind him, never a leader, but I always had him pegged as a rather open minded thinker. To see him wheeled out to toe a party line and defend the invisible man saddens me. They should be watching the derision the Tories recieved for their conveyor belt of lap dogs defending Johnson rather and avoiding that tactic rather than jumping on an unsavoury bandwagon
Seen him this morning. What got me was I realised I was watching him and thinking he’s doing quite a good job. Just shows how low the bar is set now. The wrong Miliband is wheeled out, the man responsible for all those green utilities taxes and allowing Corbyn to be voted in as leader, and I’m giving him a solid 8/10 for interview technique.
As already mentioned when the official opposition leader does better in polls when he’s in hiding (walk in freezer optional) than when he’s allowed out in public something is very broken somewhere.

biggbn

13,194 posts

197 months

Sunday 15th May
quotequote all
andy43 said:
biggbn said:
BrabusMog said:
biggbn said:
Sad to see Milliband being used as a cheerleading talking head on Sophie just now. Labour are doing jist what the Tores did and wheeling out people to defend the gaffer regardless.
He’s such an odious specimen.
I didn't mind him, never a leader, but I always had him pegged as a rather open minded thinker. To see him wheeled out to toe a party line and defend the invisible man saddens me. They should be watching the derision the Tories recieved for their conveyor belt of lap dogs defending Johnson rather and avoiding that tactic rather than jumping on an unsavoury bandwagon
Seen him this morning. What got me was I realised I was watching him and thinking he’s doing quite a good job. Just shows how low the bar is set now. The wrong Miliband is wheeled out, the man responsible for all those green utilities taxes and allowing Corbyn to be voted in as leader, and I’m giving him a solid 8/10 for interview technique.
As already mentioned when the official opposition leader does better in polls when he’s in hiding (walk in freezer optional) than when he’s allowed out in public something is very broken somewhere.
He did interview well, but the content of what he was saying, defending Starmer blindly kinda saddened me, unless, of course, he genuinely feels that way and is not another party stooge.

turbobloke

96,118 posts

237 months

Sunday 15th May
quotequote all
At this point, it would appear, the answer to the OP is still 'no'.

basherX

1,470 posts

138 months

Sunday 15th May
quotequote all
I’d dearly love it if there were an effective opposition led by a credible leader. But there isn’t. Douglas Murray (yes, I know) put it well most recently in The Spectator:

“What is the Labour party’s challenge to this? It seems to be that we should head towards the same damaging, impossible-to-achieve goals that the Conservatives have already outlined – except faster. Look at the Labour party’s criticisms of the government and they are never based on advocating some other policy. They are for getting to the same destination more swiftly. I wouldn’t say that’s a debate. It’s just a discussion over the speed limit.”

I think that summarises the problem very well. The purposes of the leader of the opposition is not to blindly oppose nor to chuck bricks at a perceived or real lack of speed in the government’s own plan. It is to demonstrate a detailed understanding of the problems of the day and provide an alternative method of dealing with them. Whether you like them or not, Blair did that, as indeed did Thatcher before him. “This is what we want Britain to look like, this is our analysis of what’s wrong and this is how we’re going to do it”.


As far as I can see, Starmer’s major point of difference is a windfall tax. But he hasn’t outlined exactly what they’d tax, how much they’d raise and what they’d then do with it.

So one, poorly articulated policy. And we’re supposed to vote for that?