Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party?

[biggbn]

Brave Fart said:

biggbn said:

McGee_22 said:

biggbn said:

I have been saying the same for a good while now, she needs to be in charge and get the Labour party noticed again. Starmer is dragging them down to his own level of visibility which is best described as being as visible as an invisible thing who has jist won first place in an invisibility contest...

And plenty of people have let you know that they see her brand of foul-mouthed hypocrisy as reason enough not to ever consider ticking a Labour ballot ticket

Yup, a divisive character for sure, no arguments here.

But people said Boris was divisive. And Trump. But they both won.
For the avoidance of doubt, I strongly disagree with Angela Rayner's politics. I am starting to have a grudging respect for her, though.

It's strange; both parties have the wrong person as their leaders. But neither appears able to change that.

I think her weaknesses are her strengths if you see what I mean. She makes the mistakes most people make, heart on sleeve stuff. I think there is a large portion of society who might vote Labour because of this, who would never do so just now. I have been spectacularly wrong before though

[Johnnytheboy]

leef44 said:

Cobracc said:

As a floating voter i have absolutely no idea what values SKS and Labour stand for.

What are their policies? What is his vision for the country..? Just standing there constantly stating the obvious of 'Tories bad' isn't good enough.

I am the same as you. I am quite desperate to vote for someone other than Boris but I would like to know what the alternatives are standing for.

Radio 4 never do, but Times Radio often push Labour MPs to say what they'd do instead when they are on there to do the usual "grrrr Tories" thing, and their lack of a coherent answer (or any answer) can be hilarious.

[General Price]

anonymoususer said:

biggbn said:

It's intersting, when have we last had a Labour leader with broad appeal who is faithful to traditional Labour values.. (that last point rules out Blair!)

1976 to 1979 Jim Callaghan

John Smith.

[turbobloke]

General Price said:

anonymoususer said:

biggbn said:

It's intersting, when have we last had a Labour leader with broad appeal who is faithful to traditional Labour values.. (that last point rules out Blair!)

1976 to 1979 Jim Callaghan

John Smith.

Yes John Smith.

[biggbn]

turbobloke said:

General Price said:

anonymoususer said:

biggbn said:

It's intersting, when have we last had a Labour leader with broad appeal who is faithful to traditional Labour values.. (that last point rules out Blair!)

1976 to 1979 Jim Callaghan

John Smith.

Yes John Smith.

Agreed.

[anonymous-user]

biggbn said:

I think her weaknesses are her strengths if you see what I mean. She makes the mistakes most people make, heart on sleeve stuff. I think there is a large portion of society who might vote Labour because of this, who would never do so just now. I have been spectacularly wrong before though

I think most "heart on sleeve" people have a little humility - they recognise when they make mistakes, etc. Rayner does not too that - look how much pressure she needed to have applied before she'd apologise for the "Tory Scum" comments that have (maybe, depending on which propaganda you listen to) led to death threats and possibly worse.

They need someone like Burnham back, IMO, to be in any way electable. None of the current shadow bench are tolerable.

And that they are ALL less desirable/electable than BoJo the Clown, speaks absolute volumes.

[chemistry]

biggbn said:

I think her weaknesses are her strengths if you see what I mean. She makes the mistakes most people make, heart on sleeve stuff. I think there is a large portion of society who might vote Labour because of this, who would never do so just now. I have been spectacularly wrong before though

Irrespective of her politics, I think I would be a sad day for the country if the leader is someone whose highest educational achievement is an NVQ Level 2 in Social Care (equivalent to 4 to 5 GCSEs).

I’m not of the opinion that A levels, degrees and other higher qualifications are the be all and end all - the embarrassment that is Boris is a well educated idiot after all - but I would be gravely concerned about her ability to handle the intellectual demands of being an effective PM.

[Vasco]

chemistry said:

Irrespective of her politics, I think I would be a sad day for the country if the leader is someone whose highest educational achievement is an NVQ Level 2 in Social Care (equivalent to 4 to 5 GCSEs).

I’m not of the opinion that A levels, degrees and other higher qualifications are the be all and end all - the embarrassment that is Boris is a well educated idiot after all - but I would be gravely concerned about her ability to handle the intellectual demands of being an effective PM.

I'm wondering if there's any real likelihood of Labour ever needing a PM. It looks very Tory out there and nothing in the Labour camp looks likely to change anything.
The Tories just need a better leader and then they'll probably stay in power for many GEs

[chemistry]

Jockman said:

Tories are said to be gaming a snap election if SKS is charged by Durham Police and so forced to resign.

The 3 month Labour leadership election would it seem lead to a lurch to the left.

Obviously denied by Tory HQ in the Times today.

My guess is SKS will be found to have broken the law, but Durham Police won’t issue a retrospective fine, so he (and Rayner) will have just enough wriggle room to allow them not to resign. He’s already said as much:

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/beergate-sir-keir-s...

We’ll then limp on as a country with him and Rayner ‘leading’ Labour, but with their authority further blunted as the Conservatives will always be able to paint them as folks who wriggle out of promises, got off on a technicality, etc.

[anonymoususer]

Labours Shadow Minister (Housing, Communities and Local Government) - Mike Amesbury has resigned from the front bench.
When a household name like him resigns from a front bench it goes to show how damaged the Labour Party is.
I expect everyone will be talking about this major political figure leaving the front bench for weeks to come.

I am given to understand that ITV are going to resurrect "World In Action" to do a special on this MP's resignation.
Tonight though a hastily convened one off episode of "this Week" will be shown.
Both Andrew Neil and Michael Portillo with a yet to be confirmed female woman will be discussing this event.
Andrew Neil has just tweeted "When I left the BBC I didnt think I would be back but this seismic political event has brought me back"

[AstonZagato]

andymadmak said:

Jockman said:

Trouble is you end up with a hybrid manifesto that zero % of the electorate voted for.

Representative democracy is a much better system.

This.
To use a very extreme example... say in a 3 party election 2 parties each get 49% of the vote and one party scores 2% . The party that will be the government is the one willing to accept whatever thing that the 2% demands as the price of their support - and that thing may well be something that the 98% did not vote for...

The UK (well, perhaps more England) has long had an aversion to coalition governments (except in times of war). The most recent brief flirtation probably hasn't served to endear the idea to most voters.
As stated, coalitions tend to take their manifestos from what can be negotiated in smoke-filled rooms rather than what the electorate actually wanted. They often don't last their whole parliamentary term as "events, dear boy, events" mean that differences over policy become difficult to resolve.
Each form of voting has its pros and cons. FPTP, PR, STV, AV.
PR tends to have politicians sitting at the top of their Party lists who have zero accountability to constituents.
Personally, I'd have an upper chamber that was elected with a different methodology and retain FPTP for the HoC. Keep calling the the HoL and those elected would be able to style themselves "Lord Soandso". Retain some non-elected crossbenchers though. More bloody politicians are not what we need.

[AstonZagato]

chemistry said:

biggbn said:

I think her weaknesses are her strengths if you see what I mean. She makes the mistakes most people make, heart on sleeve stuff. I think there is a large portion of society who might vote Labour because of this, who would never do so just now. I have been spectacularly wrong before though

Irrespective of her politics, I think I would be a sad day for the country if the leader is someone whose highest educational achievement is an NVQ Level 2 in Social Care (equivalent to 4 to 5 GCSEs).

I’m not of the opinion that A levels, degrees and other higher qualifications are the be all and end all - the embarrassment that is Boris is a well educated idiot after all - but I would be gravely concerned about her ability to handle the intellectual demands of being an effective PM.

I dislike Rayner, and think she's not up to the job. However, it is only fair to point out that John Major left school at 16 with only 3 O levels.

[bitchstewie]

That'll probably be different.

[General Price]

bhstewie said:

That'll probably be different.

Major wasn't a pig ignorant.

That's one difference,there are probably a few more.

[bitchstewie]

General Price said:

Major wasn't a pig ignorant.

That's one difference,there are probably a few more.

^^

Told you

[Vanden Saab]

Remember Honest and trustworthy? There are now five investigations between the Leader of the Opposition, the Deputy Leader, the Shadow Foreign Secretary and the Mayor of London. With the boss now involved in two investigations...

[andy43]

anonymoususer said:

Labours Shadow Minister (Housing, Communities and Local Government) - Mike Amesbury has resigned from the front bench.
When a household name like him resigns from a front bench it goes to show how damaged the Labour Party is.
I expect everyone will be talking about this major political figure leaving the front bench for weeks to come.

I am given to understand that ITV are going to resurrect "World In Action" to do a special on this MP's resignation.
Tonight though a hastily convened one off episode of "this Week" will be shown.
Both Andrew Neil and Michael Portillo with a yet to be confirmed female woman will be discussing this event.
Andrew Neil has just tweeted "When I left the BBC I didnt think I would be back but this seismic political event has brought me back"

This needs to be in the Mike Amesbury Vol 6 thread.

[Johnnytheboy]

anonymoususer said:

Labours Shadow Minister (Housing, Communities and Local Government) - Mike Amesbury has resigned from the front bench.
When a household name like him resigns from a front bench it goes to show how damaged the Labour Party is.
I expect everyone will be talking about this major political figure leaving the front bench for weeks to come.

I am given to understand that ITV are going to resurrect "World In Action" to do a special on this MP's resignation.
Tonight though a hastily convened one off episode of "this Week" will be shown.
Both Andrew Neil and Michael Portillo with a yet to be confirmed female woman will be discussing this event.
Andrew Neil has just tweeted "When I left the BBC I didnt think I would be back but this seismic political event has brought me back"

You are a genius.

[Jockman]

andy43 said:

anonymoususer said:

Labours Shadow Minister (Housing, Communities and Local Government) - Mike Amesbury has resigned from the front bench.
When a household name like him resigns from a front bench it goes to show how damaged the Labour Party is.
I expect everyone will be talking about this major political figure leaving the front bench for weeks to come.

I am given to understand that ITV are going to resurrect "World In Action" to do a special on this MP's resignation.
Tonight though a hastily convened one off episode of "this Week" will be shown.
Both Andrew Neil and Michael Portillo with a yet to be confirmed female woman will be discussing this event.
Andrew Neil has just tweeted "When I left the BBC I didnt think I would be back but this seismic political event has brought me back"

This needs to be in the Mike Amesbury Vol 6 thread.

Quality posting, it has to be said.

[Randy Winkman]

bhstewie said:

General Price said:

Major wasn't a pig ignorant.

That's one difference,there are probably a few more.

^^

Told you

Exactly. She's Labour so pig ignorant. But he's a grey haired Tory bloke so he's OK.