Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party?
Discussion
anonymoususer said:
Wombat3 said:
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: "Corbyn shouldn't be anywhere near power".
"No not like that".
You wouldn't be happy whatever Starmer did.
Straight over your head then Stewie."No not like that".
You wouldn't be happy whatever Starmer did.
This isn't about Corbyn, it's about how Starmer runs his party and by extension if he's fit to run the country.
Simple enough for you?
This is the Keir Starmer thread.
And as Sir Rog's mum said if you can't say something nice about the person in question then don't say anything.
Sir Keir is the leader and everyone should get behind him
Wombat3 said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: "Corbyn shouldn't be anywhere near power".
"No not like that".
You wouldn't be happy whatever Starmer did.
Straight over your head then Stewie."No not like that".
You wouldn't be happy whatever Starmer did.
This isn't about Corbyn, it's about how Starmer runs his party and by extension if he's fit to run the country.
Simple enough for you?
Checks notes on the political swings and round-a-bouts of allegiances and support within the top ranks of the Tory party over the last 5 years.
It's illustrating how desperate the tory-boy fan club is to smear SKS with anything in the lead up to the election, whilst simultaneously ignoring similar activities by their own preferred candidates - four leaders in five years - all of whom stood firmly behind their previous glorious leader and accepted ministerial positions?
The current mock outrage is as humourous as it is pathetic...
It's illustrating how desperate the tory-boy fan club is to smear SKS with anything in the lead up to the election, whilst simultaneously ignoring similar activities by their own preferred candidates - four leaders in five years - all of whom stood firmly behind their previous glorious leader and accepted ministerial positions?
The current mock outrage is as humourous as it is pathetic...
Starmer's not the problem: it's the electorate.
People want to be lied to. The truth is unbearable.
The reality is that people need to work harder, longer, improve themselves, keep themselves healthy and if they want better services, pay for them in the shape of higher taxes or out of their own pocket. Aging demographics meeting a period of low productivity growth was always going to be painful.
In return, the state needs to reform the housing market, crucify endless rentierism, build loads of sustainable homes, pack in pointless university degrees and subsidise apprenticeships and the like. We need an energy strategy as well that is self-sustaining - whether in concert with other like minded countries or otherwise.
Try selling any of that to an electorate.
People want to be lied to. The truth is unbearable.
The reality is that people need to work harder, longer, improve themselves, keep themselves healthy and if they want better services, pay for them in the shape of higher taxes or out of their own pocket. Aging demographics meeting a period of low productivity growth was always going to be painful.
In return, the state needs to reform the housing market, crucify endless rentierism, build loads of sustainable homes, pack in pointless university degrees and subsidise apprenticeships and the like. We need an energy strategy as well that is self-sustaining - whether in concert with other like minded countries or otherwise.
Try selling any of that to an electorate.
tangerine_sedge said:
Checks notes on the political swings and round-a-bouts of allegiances and support within the top ranks of the Tory party over the last 5 years.
It's illustrating how desperate the tory-boy fan club is to smear SKS with anything in the lead up to the election, whilst simultaneously ignoring similar activities by their own preferred candidates - four leaders in five years - all of whom stood firmly behind their previous glorious leader and accepted ministerial positions?
The current mock outrage is as humourous as it is pathetic...
Tell us how many previous Tory leaders have been kicked out of the party by the latest incumbent.It's illustrating how desperate the tory-boy fan club is to smear SKS with anything in the lead up to the election, whilst simultaneously ignoring similar activities by their own preferred candidates - four leaders in five years - all of whom stood firmly behind their previous glorious leader and accepted ministerial positions?
The current mock outrage is as humourous as it is pathetic...
This is about Starmer supporting Corbyn and accepting posts/opportunities from him.
If he was such a principled man he would have refused to work under him and said at the time,old jezza is a bloody lunatic and under no circumstance should he be leader of the Labour Party.He didn't,he took the money and voted for Corbyns proposals just to further his own career.
Good enough for labour voters,it seems.
General Price said:
tangerine_sedge said:
Checks notes on the political swings and round-a-bouts of allegiances and support within the top ranks of the Tory party over the last 5 years.
It's illustrating how desperate the tory-boy fan club is to smear SKS with anything in the lead up to the election, whilst simultaneously ignoring similar activities by their own preferred candidates - four leaders in five years - all of whom stood firmly behind their previous glorious leader and accepted ministerial positions?
The current mock outrage is as humourous as it is pathetic...
Tell us how many previous Tory leaders have been kicked out of the party by the latest incumbent.It's illustrating how desperate the tory-boy fan club is to smear SKS with anything in the lead up to the election, whilst simultaneously ignoring similar activities by their own preferred candidates - four leaders in five years - all of whom stood firmly behind their previous glorious leader and accepted ministerial positions?
The current mock outrage is as humourous as it is pathetic...
This is about Starmer supporting Corbyn and accepting posts/opportunities from him.
If he was such a principled man he would have refused to work under him and said at the time,old jezza is a bloody lunatic and under no circumstance should he be leader of the Labour Party.He didn't,he took the money and voted for Corbyns proposals just to further his own career.
Good enough for labour voters,it seems.
The fact that no previous Tory leaders have been kicked out of the party by the latest incumbent isn't something to be proud of! It just shows how weak they are and desperate not to offend any part of the party.
ant1973 said:
Starmer's not the problem: it's the electorate.
People want to be lied to. The truth is unbearable.
The reality is that people need to work harder, longer, improve themselves, keep themselves healthy and if they want better services, pay for them in the shape of higher taxes or out of their own pocket. Aging demographics meeting a period of low productivity growth was always going to be painful.
In return, the state needs to reform the housing market, crucify endless rentierism, build loads of sustainable homes, pack in pointless university degrees and subsidise apprenticeships and the like. We need an energy strategy as well that is self-sustaining - whether in concert with other like minded countries or otherwise.
Try selling any of that to an electorate.
Worth quoting the previous president of the EU. People want to be lied to. The truth is unbearable.
The reality is that people need to work harder, longer, improve themselves, keep themselves healthy and if they want better services, pay for them in the shape of higher taxes or out of their own pocket. Aging demographics meeting a period of low productivity growth was always going to be painful.
In return, the state needs to reform the housing market, crucify endless rentierism, build loads of sustainable homes, pack in pointless university degrees and subsidise apprenticeships and the like. We need an energy strategy as well that is self-sustaining - whether in concert with other like minded countries or otherwise.
Try selling any of that to an electorate.
"We all know what to do. We just do not know how to get reelected after doing it.
General Price said:
tangerine_sedge said:
Checks notes on the political swings and round-a-bouts of allegiances and support within the top ranks of the Tory party over the last 5 years.
It's illustrating how desperate the tory-boy fan club is to smear SKS with anything in the lead up to the election, whilst simultaneously ignoring similar activities by their own preferred candidates - four leaders in five years - all of whom stood firmly behind their previous glorious leader and accepted ministerial positions?
The current mock outrage is as humourous as it is pathetic...
Tell us how many previous Tory leaders have been kicked out of the party by the latest incumbent.It's illustrating how desperate the tory-boy fan club is to smear SKS with anything in the lead up to the election, whilst simultaneously ignoring similar activities by their own preferred candidates - four leaders in five years - all of whom stood firmly behind their previous glorious leader and accepted ministerial positions?
The current mock outrage is as humourous as it is pathetic...
This is about Starmer supporting Corbyn and accepting posts/opportunities from him.
If he was such a principled man he would have refused to work under him and said at the time,old jezza is a bloody lunatic and under no circumstance should he be leader of the Labour Party.He didn't,he took the money and voted for Corbyns proposals just to further his own career.
Good enough for labour voters,it seems.
In 2019 he was a massive Corbyn fan, because that's what suited Starmer's career.
In 2023 he is a massive Corbyn detractor, because that's what suits Starmer's career.
Thank you all for proving my point.
Starmer: Hey Rishi, hold my beer!
Move on Kier, move on. Ignore Corbyn, blank him, wipe him him from the conversation and he will fade back to the same level of obscurity as he had a decade ago. Hell, he already largely had! JC is simply not a “thing” he needs to spend an iota of time, political capital or energy on.
As I said, I don’t think he wants to win at times.
Starmer: Hey Rishi, hold my beer!
Move on Kier, move on. Ignore Corbyn, blank him, wipe him him from the conversation and he will fade back to the same level of obscurity as he had a decade ago. Hell, he already largely had! JC is simply not a “thing” he needs to spend an iota of time, political capital or energy on.
As I said, I don’t think he wants to win at times.
S600BSB said:
AstonZagato said:
williamp said:
Good. No-one wants a racist in a position of power. And anti-semitism is racism
Didn't SKS want him to be PM only a few short years ago?Chancers, the lot of them. Politicians wonder why they are held in such low esteem. Almost none of them have any principles beyond clinging to power or trying to climb the greasy pole.
I have mixed feelings about Starmer's treatment of Corbyn.
On the one hand, SKS is sending a message to centrist voters that lefty nutters aren't welcome in today's Labour Party. This seems to me to be a fairly astute bit of pre-election marketing.
On the other hand, SKS was supportive of Corbyn in 2019 (and before), so voters now see that SKS is insincere and cannot be trusted. Perhaps they will conclude that he is a man of few (if any) genuine principles; just another weather vane - curiously similar to Boris in that sense.
On the one hand, SKS is sending a message to centrist voters that lefty nutters aren't welcome in today's Labour Party. This seems to me to be a fairly astute bit of pre-election marketing.
On the other hand, SKS was supportive of Corbyn in 2019 (and before), so voters now see that SKS is insincere and cannot be trusted. Perhaps they will conclude that he is a man of few (if any) genuine principles; just another weather vane - curiously similar to Boris in that sense.
General Price said:
tangerine_sedge said:
Checks notes on the political swings and round-a-bouts of allegiances and support within the top ranks of the Tory party over the last 5 years.
It's illustrating how desperate the tory-boy fan club is to smear SKS with anything in the lead up to the election, whilst simultaneously ignoring similar activities by their own preferred candidates - four leaders in five years - all of whom stood firmly behind their previous glorious leader and accepted ministerial positions?
The current mock outrage is as humourous as it is pathetic...
Tell us how many previous Tory leaders have been kicked out of the party by the latest incumbent.It's illustrating how desperate the tory-boy fan club is to smear SKS with anything in the lead up to the election, whilst simultaneously ignoring similar activities by their own preferred candidates - four leaders in five years - all of whom stood firmly behind their previous glorious leader and accepted ministerial positions?
The current mock outrage is as humourous as it is pathetic...
This is about Starmer supporting Corbyn and accepting posts/opportunities from him.
If he was such a principled man he would have refused to work under him and said at the time,old jezza is a bloody lunatic and under no circumstance should he be leader of the Labour Party.He didn't,he took the money and voted for Corbyns proposals just to further his own career.
Good enough for labour voters,it seems.
The worst possible scenario for business, international investment, and international relations & therefore the country at large is to have someone at the helm with so little apparent conviction & who demonstrably blows with the bloody wind.
Combine that with a paucity of talent and experience on the Labour front bench plus the usual green-eyed monster Labour fiscal & taxation policies and you have a recipe for an absolute clusterf
k.Hants PHer said:
I have mixed feelings about Starmer's treatment of Corbyn.
On the one hand, SKS is sending a message to centrist voters that lefty nutters aren't welcome in today's Labour Party. This seems to me to be a fairly astute bit of pre-election marketing.
On the other hand, SKS was supportive of Corbyn in 2019 (and before), so voters now see that SKS is insincere and cannot be trusted. Perhaps they will conclude that he is a man of few (if any) genuine principles; just another weather vane - curiously similar to Boris in that sense.
Its worse than that. If Corbyn wasn't welcome in the labour party then he's done more than enough to be expelled. All that's happened is he's had the whip removed (big deal he'll vote with Labour anyway) and only now is being told he can't stand at the election. If it were possible to fOn the one hand, SKS is sending a message to centrist voters that lefty nutters aren't welcome in today's Labour Party. This seems to me to be a fairly astute bit of pre-election marketing.
On the other hand, SKS was supportive of Corbyn in 2019 (and before), so voters now see that SKS is insincere and cannot be trusted. Perhaps they will conclude that he is a man of few (if any) genuine principles; just another weather vane - curiously similar to Boris in that sense.
k the handling of this simple thing up and drag it out any more I'm not sure how you would do that.Mrr T said:
ant1973 said:
Starmer's not the problem: it's the electorate.
People want to be lied to. The truth is unbearable.
The reality is that people need to work harder, longer, improve themselves, keep themselves healthy and if they want better services, pay for them in the shape of higher taxes or out of their own pocket. Aging demographics meeting a period of low productivity growth was always going to be painful.
In return, the state needs to reform the housing market, crucify endless rentierism, build loads of sustainable homes, pack in pointless university degrees and subsidise apprenticeships and the like. We need an energy strategy as well that is self-sustaining - whether in concert with other like minded countries or otherwise.
Try selling any of that to an electorate.
Worth quoting the previous president of the EU. People want to be lied to. The truth is unbearable.
The reality is that people need to work harder, longer, improve themselves, keep themselves healthy and if they want better services, pay for them in the shape of higher taxes or out of their own pocket. Aging demographics meeting a period of low productivity growth was always going to be painful.
In return, the state needs to reform the housing market, crucify endless rentierism, build loads of sustainable homes, pack in pointless university degrees and subsidise apprenticeships and the like. We need an energy strategy as well that is self-sustaining - whether in concert with other like minded countries or otherwise.
Try selling any of that to an electorate.
"We all know what to do. We just do not know how to get reelected after doing it.
Every time I listen to an idiotic Question Time audience I want to scream as they bellow their demands....
Wombat3 said:
Its worse than that. If Corbyn wasn't welcome in the labour party then he's done more than enough to be expelled. All that's happened is he's had the whip removed (big deal he'll vote with Labour anyway) and only now is being told he can't stand at the election. If it were possible to fk the handling of this simple thing up and drag it out any more I'm not sure how you would do that.
I suspect that most people who might vote Labour come the next election aren’t anywhere near as worked up about this as you seem to be. k the handling of this simple thing up and drag it out any more I'm not sure how you would do that.Riff Raff said:
I suspect that most people who might vote Labour come the next election aren’t anywhere near as worked up about this as you seem to be.
Precisely. I doubt Labour HQ will be losing any sleep about Pistonheads N,P&E denizens not voting Labour when probably the vast majority never would in a gazillion years
It's all about the silent majority of middle England and whether they decide they've had enough of the Tories or not.
Still plenty of time for Sunak to pull it back but he's lost my vote and SKS won't be getting it either.
Riff Raff said:
Wombat3 said:
Its worse than that. If Corbyn wasn't welcome in the labour party then he's done more than enough to be expelled. All that's happened is he's had the whip removed (big deal he'll vote with Labour anyway) and only now is being told he can't stand at the election. If it were possible to fk the handling of this simple thing up and drag it out any more I'm not sure how you would do that.
I suspect that most people who might vote Labour come the next election aren’t anywhere near as worked up about this as you seem to be. k the handling of this simple thing up and drag it out any more I'm not sure how you would do that.That's a fairly pointless comment in an internet forum thread about whether SKS can revive the Labour party or not.
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