Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party?
Discussion
Riff Raff said:
Wombat3 said:
Its worse than that. If Corbyn wasn't welcome in the labour party then he's done more than enough to be expelled. All that's happened is he's had the whip removed (big deal he'll vote with Labour anyway) and only now is being told he can't stand at the election. If it were possible to f
k the handling of this simple thing up and drag it out any more I'm not sure how you would do that.
I suspect that most people who might vote Labour come the next election aren’t anywhere near as worked up about this as you seem to be. k the handling of this simple thing up and drag it out any more I'm not sure how you would do that.So, from the Labour right's perspective it's actually quite canny politicking. They've handed Corbyn a noose and it's entirely up to him whether he chooses to stick his head through it (it's up to the voters of Islington North whether he hangs himself from it, to continue the rather gruesome metaphor).
Let's face it, Corbyn isn't going to abandon Islington North. Whatever faults can be levelled at him, his performance as a constituency MP is not one of them. He is extremely popular personally and has only once taken less than 50 per cent of the vote - that was 1983 under Foot's manifesto, with the Conservatives on a post-Falklands high and Corbyn as an unknown newcomer.
So for that reason alone, let alone Labour factionalism, he's going to run as an independent. But that's entirely up to him and he can/will therefore trigger his own expulsion without Starmer having to lift another finger.
2xChevrons said:
Just as a matter of process - yes, Corbyn hasn't been expelled from the Party. But since he has been blocked from standing as an official Labour candidate, if he stands as an independent while remaining a Labour member then that is clear, unequivocal grounds for expulsion.
So, from the Labour right's perspective it's actually quite canny politicking. They've handed Corbyn a noose and it's entirely up to him whether he chooses to stick his head through it (it's up to the voters of Islington North whether he hangs himself from it, to continue the rather gruesome metaphor).
Let's face it, Corbyn isn't going to abandon Islington North. Whatever faults can be levelled at him, his performance as a constituency MP is not one of them. He is extremely popular personally and has only once taken less than 50 per cent of the vote - that was 1983 under Foot's manifesto, with the Conservatives on a post-Falklands high and Corbyn as an unknown newcomer.
So for that reason alone, let alone Labour factionalism, he's going to run as an independent. But that's entirely up to him and he can/will therefore trigger his own expulsion without Starmer having to lift another finger.
Islington North has been a Labour stronghold since the 30s. The Tories will be hoping that Corbyn stands as an Indy. So, from the Labour right's perspective it's actually quite canny politicking. They've handed Corbyn a noose and it's entirely up to him whether he chooses to stick his head through it (it's up to the voters of Islington North whether he hangs himself from it, to continue the rather gruesome metaphor).
Let's face it, Corbyn isn't going to abandon Islington North. Whatever faults can be levelled at him, his performance as a constituency MP is not one of them. He is extremely popular personally and has only once taken less than 50 per cent of the vote - that was 1983 under Foot's manifesto, with the Conservatives on a post-Falklands high and Corbyn as an unknown newcomer.
So for that reason alone, let alone Labour factionalism, he's going to run as an independent. But that's entirely up to him and he can/will therefore trigger his own expulsion without Starmer having to lift another finger.
ukwill said:
2xChevrons said:
Just as a matter of process - yes, Corbyn hasn't been expelled from the Party. But since he has been blocked from standing as an official Labour candidate, if he stands as an independent while remaining a Labour member then that is clear, unequivocal grounds for expulsion.
So, from the Labour right's perspective it's actually quite canny politicking. They've handed Corbyn a noose and it's entirely up to him whether he chooses to stick his head through it (it's up to the voters of Islington North whether he hangs himself from it, to continue the rather gruesome metaphor).
Let's face it, Corbyn isn't going to abandon Islington North. Whatever faults can be levelled at him, his performance as a constituency MP is not one of them. He is extremely popular personally and has only once taken less than 50 per cent of the vote - that was 1983 under Foot's manifesto, with the Conservatives on a post-Falklands high and Corbyn as an unknown newcomer.
So for that reason alone, let alone Labour factionalism, he's going to run as an independent. But that's entirely up to him and he can/will therefore trigger his own expulsion without Starmer having to lift another finger.
Islington North has been a Labour stronghold since the 30s. The Tories will be hoping that Corbyn stands as an Indy. So, from the Labour right's perspective it's actually quite canny politicking. They've handed Corbyn a noose and it's entirely up to him whether he chooses to stick his head through it (it's up to the voters of Islington North whether he hangs himself from it, to continue the rather gruesome metaphor).
Let's face it, Corbyn isn't going to abandon Islington North. Whatever faults can be levelled at him, his performance as a constituency MP is not one of them. He is extremely popular personally and has only once taken less than 50 per cent of the vote - that was 1983 under Foot's manifesto, with the Conservatives on a post-Falklands high and Corbyn as an unknown newcomer.
So for that reason alone, let alone Labour factionalism, he's going to run as an independent. But that's entirely up to him and he can/will therefore trigger his own expulsion without Starmer having to lift another finger.
Labour: 30%
Corbyn: 30%
Tories: 40%
would be pretty hilarious, and maybe one that Corbyn would actually be happy with, given his current position.
S600BSB said:
SpeckledJim said:
a result of
Labour: 30%
Corbyn: 30%
Tories: 40%
would be pretty hilarious, and maybe one that Corbyn would actually be happy with, given his current position.
Better than Corbyn standing as a Labour candidate. Bigger picture. You are also overlooking the Lib Dems. Labour: 30%
Corbyn: 30%
Tories: 40%
would be pretty hilarious, and maybe one that Corbyn would actually be happy with, given his current position.
S600BSB said:
SpeckledJim said:
a result of
Labour: 30%
Corbyn: 30%
Tories: 40%
would be pretty hilarious, and maybe one that Corbyn would actually be happy with, given his current position.
Better than Corbyn standing as a Labour candidate. Bigger picture. You are also overlooking the Lib Dems. Labour: 30%
Corbyn: 30%
Tories: 40%
would be pretty hilarious, and maybe one that Corbyn would actually be happy with, given his current position.
lauda said:
S600BSB said:
SpeckledJim said:
a result of
Labour: 30%
Corbyn: 30%
Tories: 40%
would be pretty hilarious, and maybe one that Corbyn would actually be happy with, given his current position.
Better than Corbyn standing as a Labour candidate. Bigger picture. You are also overlooking the Lib Dems. Labour: 30%
Corbyn: 30%
Tories: 40%
would be pretty hilarious, and maybe one that Corbyn would actually be happy with, given his current position.
BigMon said:
Riff Raff said:
I suspect that most people who might vote Labour come the next election aren’t anywhere near as worked up about this as you seem to be.
Precisely. I doubt Labour HQ will be losing any sleep about Pistonheads N,P&E denizens not voting Labour when probably the vast majority never would in a gazillion years
It's all about the silent majority of middle England and whether they decide they've had enough of the Tories or not.
Still plenty of time for Sunak to pull it back but he's lost my vote and SKS won't be getting it either.
lauda said:
S600BSB said:
SpeckledJim said:
a result of
Labour: 30%
Corbyn: 30%
Tories: 40%
would be pretty hilarious, and maybe one that Corbyn would actually be happy with, given his current position.
Better than Corbyn standing as a Labour candidate. Bigger picture. You are also overlooking the Lib Dems. Labour: 30%
Corbyn: 30%
Tories: 40%
would be pretty hilarious, and maybe one that Corbyn would actually be happy with, given his current position.
As 2XC says above, it will finally solve the Corbyn problem and be the death nell for the remains of Momentum which will suit Starmer perfectly.
Corbyn and his acolytes are like a bad smell for the Labour Party at the moment just like Boris is for the Tories but here we see Corbyn put into a corner and will now be the master of his own demise. He either has to stand down or be expelled and he has to be the one to choose whilst the Labour hierarchy sits back after handing him a loaded revolver.
Canny politicking in action.
Wombat3 said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: "Corbyn shouldn't be anywhere near power".
"No not like that".
You wouldn't be happy whatever Starmer did.
Straight over your head then Stewie."No not like that".
You wouldn't be happy whatever Starmer did.
This isn't about Corbyn, it's about how Starmer runs his party and by extension if he's fit to run the country.
Simple enough for you?
I have plenty of reservations about Starmer but that seems like something that people should be pleased about.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Wombat3 said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: "Corbyn shouldn't be anywhere near power".
"No not like that".
You wouldn't be happy whatever Starmer did.
Straight over your head then Stewie."No not like that".
You wouldn't be happy whatever Starmer did.
This isn't about Corbyn, it's about how Starmer runs his party and by extension if he's fit to run the country.
Simple enough for you?
I have plenty of reservations about Starmer but that seems like something that people should be pleased about.
k (and fundamentally undemocratic) management of a fairly simple issue.Wombat3 said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Wombat3 said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: "Corbyn shouldn't be anywhere near power".
"No not like that".
You wouldn't be happy whatever Starmer did.
Straight over your head then Stewie."No not like that".
You wouldn't be happy whatever Starmer did.
This isn't about Corbyn, it's about how Starmer runs his party and by extension if he's fit to run the country.
Simple enough for you?
I have plenty of reservations about Starmer but that seems like something that people should be pleased about.
k (and fundamentally undemocratic) management of a fairly simple issue.He’s not the leader if he can’t take any decisions.
(And wasn’t this decision backed by a democratic vote of the board of endless wisdom of or something?)
Wombat3 said:
It's not about Corbyn , it's about Clusterfk (and fundamentally undemocratic) management of a fairly simple issue.
By way of balance do you also acknowledge the many clusterfk (and fundamentally undemocratic) management of a fairly simple issue.ks by the current incumbents in government?I don't think anyone here is claiming Starmer is some knight in white armour, but the last few years have been so calamitous I honestly don't know who is going to be worse. The current mob aren't exactly pulling up any trees are they.
Hopefully Sunak will pull it round, but the likes of Braverman and Rees-Mogg (to give but two examples) are the equal with regards to cretinousness of the most incompetent of the Labour front bench so that doesn't exactly fill me with hope.
BigMon said:
Hopefully Sunak will pull it round, but the likes of Braverman and Rees-Mogg (to give but two examples) are the equal with regards to cretinousness of the most incompetent of the Labour front bench so that doesn't exactly fill me with hope.
Those two are basically the Tory equivalent of McDonnell and Burgon. There’s also an equivalent competence vacuum between Truss and Abbott.
The main difference being that we were spared the most incompetent elements of Labour ever having the levers of power. Shame we can’t say the same about the Tories.
lauda said:
BigMon said:
Hopefully Sunak will pull it round, but the likes of Braverman and Rees-Mogg (to give but two examples) are the equal with regards to cretinousness of the most incompetent of the Labour front bench so that doesn't exactly fill me with hope.
Those two are basically the Tory equivalent of McDonnell and Burgon. There’s also an equivalent competence vacuum between Truss and Abbott.
The main difference being that we were spared the most incompetent elements of Labour ever having the levers of power. Shame we can’t say the same about the Tories.
Abbott at her finest....
Kathy Newman: Name one policy you would like Keir to embrace that he doesn't already.
Diane Abbott: Well, the idea that we should have...err..f...f...err...policy on fo...fo...folery (?)...fo...fo...on issues relating to....err...eh...eh.. ..ordinary issues in real... reality giving people...erm...free access to free quantity, free access to free... actual re...re...recovery. I think...I mean when..the..the..main thing is when Kier became Leader He seem to promise that he would....
Edited by 98elise on Thursday 30th March 12:14
Vanden Saab said:
I heard Keirs stand in getting a roasting at deputy PMQs today. After the usual first question rant left me thinking he was in trouble Raab just destroyed her with his one line reply...
She did seem to walk into that one head first. Trying to be smart, calling out Raab for the bullying allegations. Only for him to quip back that “he’s never called anyone scum”.
For Rayner, it will forever be associated with her, good or bad
Vanden Saab said:
I heard Keirs stand in getting a roasting at deputy PMQs today. After the usual first question rant left me thinking he was in trouble Raab just destroyed her with his one line reply...
Yep, she was her usual screamy, unpleasant ranting self. Raab handled that well.Anyway, Starmer. He did the right thing by kicking Corbyn to the kerb. Bit of a hypocrite because of all the misguided (self-serving?) support he gave to Corbyn in the past, but the right decision to ban him standing as a Labour candidate in the future.
I know all politicians are self-serving, and to an extent I am OK with that, but to hear Stamer described as a man of principle is laughable.
Anyway, be interesting to see what happens if Corbyn does stand as an independant... versus a Labour candidate. Do the population vote for the red rosette or do they really love the terrorist sympathiser?
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