Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party?

[General Price]

greygoose said:

General Price said:

Cobracc said:

If only the tories hadn't left the country £2.5TRILLION in debt...

At least the £32BN track and trace app and £100BN HS2 wasn't a complete waste of taxpayers money!

There wasn't a £32BN track and trace app but don't let facts spoil your rant.

Yeah it has all been financial probity from the conservatives, nothing to see…..

If you say so,I think there were plenty of things should have been done differently but unfortunately it's too late now.

[greygoose]

General Price said:

greygoose said:

General Price said:

Cobracc said:

If only the tories hadn't left the country £2.5TRILLION in debt...

At least the £32BN track and trace app and £100BN HS2 wasn't a complete waste of taxpayers money!

There wasn't a £32BN track and trace app but don't let facts spoil your rant.

Yeah it has all been financial probity from the conservatives, nothing to see…..

If you say so,I think there were plenty of things should have been done differently but unfortunately it's too late now.

So should we let fraudsters keep their ill-gotten millions or just say it is too late?

[General Price]

greygoose said:

General Price said:

greygoose said:

General Price said:

Cobracc said:

If only the tories hadn't left the country £2.5TRILLION in debt...

At least the £32BN track and trace app and £100BN HS2 wasn't a complete waste of taxpayers money!

There wasn't a £32BN track and trace app but don't let facts spoil your rant.

Yeah it has all been financial probity from the conservatives, nothing to see…..

If you say so,I think there were plenty of things should have been done differently but unfortunately it's too late now.

So should we let fraudsters keep their ill-gotten millions or just say it is too late?

Strange question,completely irrelevant to my point.I said there was no 32bn track and trace app and you turn that into giving fraudsters money.

Are we just looking for squirrels or trying to make a point that wasn't there?

[Murph7355]

Cobracc said:

If only the tories hadn't left the country £2.5TRILLION in debt...

At least the £32BN track and trace app and £100BN HS2 wasn't a complete waste of taxpayers money!

The National Debt was building well before 2010, and the deficit that was being run in the "good times" didn't help matters either (also before 2010).

The money you note was for TEST, track and trace, and the final outturn has yet to be...finalised. There are lots of other areas of expense during Covid that you could have cited more certainly as being spaffed (furlough being a big one; bounce back loans another; etc).

HS2 I also tend to agree on...the general idea might have been sound. The start point seemed silly. But such is life.

Every govt of every colour wastes cash on pet projects. They're all useless fkers.

[crankedup5]

Riff Raff said:

crankedup5 said:

Just how big is this proposed ‘energy windfall’ that Starmer continues to allocate to various spending plans he has . Latest is the windfall’ tax will be used to stop Council tax bills rising, Labour must have spent this windfall ten times over already.

They can't 'spend' anything. They aren't in power. The more sensible amongst the electorate will wait and see what makes it into the manifesto for the next election, and make a judgement then about whether or not the sums add up.

Let's hope for your sake there aren't any statistics in it

I said ‘spending plans’ I didn’t say he has spent money or was in a position to spend money. Try to get your criticisms based on reality and fact of what I have said.
Starmer will be disappointed that his messaging should be ignored until his manifesto is printed. The thing is with politics a Party eighteen months out from a GE will start to pontificate what they may be proposing, a sound board. That sound board regarding spending of some imaginary giant windfall tax has been spent so. any times already. aThe sensible electorate will already be taking notes regarding ‘sound bites’ and reality.

Edited by crankedup5 on Thursday 30th March 23:55

[crankedup5]

Vanden Saab said:

98elise said:

crankedup5 said:

Just how big is this proposed ‘energy windfall’ that Starmer continues to allocate to various spending plans he has . Latest is the windfall’ tax will be used to stop Council tax bills rising, Labour must have spent this windfall ten times over already.

Someone from Labour was on the news saying it will be 3% taking the total to 78%.

Well they have spent over £40 billion on pledges WRT how they are going to spend it while estimating it will raise £10 Billion... Guess somebody must have noticed that they spent £20 billion on the £3 billion they estimate they will raise from removing non-dom.

Yup, it’s the same old Labour ready to bankrupt the Country. It’s almost every spending commitment on resolving issues is coming from energy windfall and non dom’s.

[crankedup5]

Cobracc said:

86 said:

See Labour can’t agree amongst themselves if they are going to raise CGT. Reeves say no Rayner says yes

Not sure where all the money is coming from!!

If only the tories hadn't left the country £2.5TRILLION in debt...

At least the £32BN track and trace app and £100BN HS2 wasn't a complete waste of taxpayers money!

Starmer would have held the U.K. in covid lockdown longer than Tories managed. Our debt would have been even higher under his lot.

[Riff Raff]

crankedup5 said:

Starmer would have held the U.K. in covid lockdown longer than Tories managed. Our debt would have been even higher under his lot.

I’m having difficulty in deciding whether that is speculation, supposition or conjecture. I think I’ll just go with bks.

[Jinx]

Riff Raff said:

I’m having difficulty in deciding whether that is speculation, supposition or conjecture. I think I’ll just go with bks.

Then you obviously were not paying attention. Every time the government looked to reducing Covid measures the opposition voted and argued against the easing restrictions. Hansard will have all the information if you care to look.

[turbobloke]

Jinx said:

Riff Raff said:

I’m having difficulty in deciding whether that is speculation, supposition or conjecture. I think I’ll just go with bks.

Then you obviously were not paying attention. Every time the government looked to reducing Covid measures the opposition voted and argued against the easing restrictions. Hansard will have all the information if you care to look.

indeed. A couple of examples follow.

Wanting restrictions in place (2020) scroll down to berating the PM for not acting sooner
https://labour.org.uk/press/keir-starmers-statemen...

Wanting restrictions to stay put and berating the PM for being reckless in lifting them (2021)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/19/k...

'The Johnson variant'. Muppet.

[crankedup5]

Jinx said:

Riff Raff said:

I’m having difficulty in deciding whether that is speculation, supposition or conjecture. I think I’ll just go with bks.

Then you obviously were not paying attention. Every time the government looked to reducing Covid measures the opposition voted and argued against the easing restrictions. Hansard will have all the information if you care to look.

Exactly.

[Riff Raff]

turbobloke said:

Jinx said:

Riff Raff said:

I’m having difficulty in deciding whether that is speculation, supposition or conjecture. I think I’ll just go with bks.

Then you obviously were not paying attention. Every time the government looked to reducing Covid measures the opposition voted and argued against the easing restrictions. Hansard will have all the information if you care to look.

indeed. A couple of examples follow.

Wanting restrictions in place (2020) scroll down to berating the PM for not acting sooner
https://labour.org.uk/press/keir-starmers-statemen...

Wanting restrictions to stay put and berating the PM for being reckless in lifting them (2021)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/19/k...

'The Johnson variant'. Muppet.

The big fly in the ointment here is making the assumption that, had a different government been in place, we would have been in exactly the same place as we were when those votes took place. Had different decisions been made and different actions been taken, maybe we wouldn’t. The point is I don’t know, and neither do you two either.

The Labour Party responses and statements to what was happening during the pandemic are set out here:

https://labour.org.uk/category/latest/press-releas...

After you’ve worked your way through that lot, tell me what the outcome would have been had SKS been running the show. Without involving speculation, supposition or conjecture.

[Jinx]

Riff Raff said:

The big fly in the ointment here is making the assumption that, had a different government been in place, we would have been in exactly the same place as we were when those votes took place. Had different decisions been made and different actions been taken, maybe we wouldn’t. The point is I don’t know, and neither do you two either.

The Labour Party responses and statements to what was happening during the pandemic are set out here:

https://labour.org.uk/category/latest/press-releas...

After you’ve worked your way through that lot, tell me what the outcome would have been had SKS been running the show. Without involving speculation, supposition or conjecture.

https://labour.org.uk/press/jonathan-ashworth-stat... :rolf: Especially the line "Masks are effective because we know the virus is airborne."


And from https://labour.org.uk/press/keir-starmer-responds-...

Sir Keir Starmer said:

Last week around 60 of his own MPs called for the end of all restrictions by the end of April.

I’m sure there will be similar calls today.

He knows what I think of that – I think it’s reckless and irresponsible.

[Hants PHer]

Riff Raff is talking utter tosh, presumably in a vain attempt to defend the Red Team.

If you want more evidence of the desire to enact pointless Covid restrictions, and keep them for far too long, see how Welsh Labour (and not forgetting the SNP) handled things. Or see how left leaning trade unions demanded restrictions. Or if you want real loony left, have a look back at what Susan "The Communist" Michie advocated.

For clarity, it isn't a simple left versus right thing, but there's no doubt that, in England, the Labour Party would have kept restrictions in place for longer than the Conservatives did. Let's remember those images from the House of Commons where all the Labour MP's were sat with their masks on, while on the Tory benches there were hardly any masks to be seen.

[SpeckledJim]

Pure politics.

What can we hit the Tories with? Being evil! What's more evil than killing grannies? Nothing! Is this actually killing grannies? No, but it sounds good, doesn't it! Isn't it expensive? Yes, but it's them spending it, we're just saying we'd save grannies.

[86]

Another example of how Labour run the country if elected to power

https://apple.news/AaIEBj5SwQGe9B66-G4cJAQ

[rdjohn]

SpeckledJim said:

Pure politics.

What can we hit the Tories with? Being evil! What's more evil than killing grannies? Nothing! Is this actually killing grannies? No, but it sounds good, doesn't it! Isn't it expensive? Yes, but it's them spending it, we're just saying we'd save grannies.

I like the Andrew Neal Show on C4, they, including Ed Balls, seem pretty convinced that Labour need to start making stronger points. They are clearly currently banking on the Tories losing the election, rather than them going out to win it.

Last week Ed Balls cited John Major’s 1992 victory after Thatcher. Everyone thought that Labour would win easily, but they lost. Only when Blair came with a very clear agenda in 1997 did Labour achieve a solid and sustainable result.

They also agreed that Sunak seems like a wind of change from Boris / Truss and that, once the real fighting starts, he will make Starmer look rather boring. Not difficult.

But still looks like a very uphill battle.

[DeejRC]

As I keep saying - at some point Starmer has to start throwing some punches. You can’t just sit there with your guns but no ammo, you get found out when the other side DO start playing offence.
I don’t have much against Starmer, I could vote for his mob. Just need to know what we would be voting FOR though!
I know what I’m getting with Rishi, I know his tax plans etc and I’m not a fan of it. I would like to be a fan of someone else’s plans…

[Grumps.]

rdjohn said:

SpeckledJim said:

Pure politics.

What can we hit the Tories with? Being evil! What's more evil than killing grannies? Nothing! Is this actually killing grannies? No, but it sounds good, doesn't it! Isn't it expensive? Yes, but it's them spending it, we're just saying we'd save grannies.

I like the Andrew Neal Show on C4, they, including Ed Balls, seem pretty convinced that Labour need to start making stronger points. They are clearly currently banking on the Tories losing the election, rather than them going out to win it.

Last week Ed Balls cited John Major’s 1992 victory after Thatcher. Everyone thought that Labour would win easily, but they lost. Only when Blair came with a very clear agenda in 1997 did Labour achieve a solid and sustainable result.

They also agreed that Sunak seems like a wind of change from Boris / Truss and that, once the real fighting starts, he will make Starmer look rather boring. Not difficult.

But still looks like a very uphill battle.

Everyone has been saying from the start two(?) years ago that Keith is an empty vessel and has no plan, and it is still the same, so i can't see that improving any time soon.

Although i think he is relying more on Tory fk ups to win votes, rather than have any strategy.

[anonymoususer]

I'm not one to gossip but Sir Keir could be involved in a love triangle. Stuff like this seldom bodes well and people get hurt
He has been seen talking to Sue Gray
Sue Grey has visited Gordon Brown at home over past two years.

It will end in tears I tell ya