Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party?

[turbobloke]

Derek Smith said:

The centre is open, just asking to be dominated by a single party, the New, New Labour someone posted earlier.

Not subtle enough.

The current conservatives are just that (small c). Not far right at all, whereas the Labour Party is insistent - based on recent events - on remaining far left. The centre ground is already partly occupied, a policy of lowering the immigrant salary threshold is hardly BNP. Anyone holding out for a Blairite miracle maker dominating the landscape shouldn't hold their breath.

[Robertj21a]

At least we all know where we are for the next 9 years......

[leef44]

Robertj21a said:

At least we all know where we are for the next 9 years......

I was going to laugh, but this is sad and very serious.

[anonymous-user]

swisstoni said:

Raynor has decided she’s “gutted” about the report’s findings. As if she didn’t have a ringside seat for what was going on.

No but yeah but because what happened was right this thing happened what I don’t know nuffink about shut up I wasn’t meant to be anywhere even near there. Then Kezza lad came over and started stirring it all up started calling him all these fings about this fing I didn’t even know nuffink about.

[Derek Smith]

turbobloke said:

Not subtle enough.

The current conservatives are just that (small c). Not far right at all, whereas the Labour Party is insistent - based on recent events - on remaining far left. The centre ground is already partly occupied, a policy of lowering the immigrant salary threshold is hardly BNP. Anyone holding out for a Blairite miracle maker dominating the landscape shouldn't hold their breath.

That's a point of view. Don't close your eyes.

[BigMon]

Robertj21a said:

At least we all I know where we all I am for the next 9 years......

Fixed that for you. I refer you to my earlier quote about Maggie being reincarnated as Labour leader.

[anonymous-user]

fblm said:

swisstoni said:

Raynor has decided she’s “gutted” about the report’s findings. As if she didn’t have a ringside seat for what was going on.

No but yeah but because what happened was right this thing happened what I don’t know nuffink about shut up I wasn’t meant to be anywhere even near there. Then Kezza lad came over and started stirring it all up started calling him all these fings about this fing I didn’t even know nuffink about.

That's worth an LOL :-)

[Kent Border Kenny]

BigMon said:

Fixed that for you. I refer you to my earlier quote about Maggie being reincarnated as Labour leader.

But you didn’t fix it,my oh changed it.

Most people probably think that unless Labour pull themselves together then they have very little chance of winning in four years.

[Robertj21a]

Kent Border Kenny said:

BigMon said:

Fixed that for you. I refer you to my earlier quote about Maggie being reincarnated as Labour leader.

But you didn’t fix it,my oh changed it.

Most people probably think that unless Labour pull themselves together then they have very little chance of winning in four years.

They have no chance of winning in 4 years.

[jakesmith]

Robertj21a said:

They have no chance of winning in 4 years.

They not at the worst point in history to be not-in-government

[Derek Smith]

jakesmith said:

They not at the worst point in history to be not-in-government

That's a good point. Brexit, Covid, world recession: I'm sure the public won't blame Johnson or the tories.

But don't hold your breath.

[768]

MikeStroud said:

fblm said:

swisstoni said:

Raynor has decided she’s “gutted” about the report’s findings. As if she didn’t have a ringside seat for what was going on.

No but yeah but because what happened was right this thing happened what I don’t know nuffink about shut up I wasn’t meant to be anywhere even near there. Then Kezza lad came over and started stirring it all up started calling him all these fings about this fing I didn’t even know nuffink about.

That's worth an LOL :-)

[Johnnytheboy]

catweasle said:

Garvin said:

Not quite. Reincarnate John Smith back as Labour leader and you’d have me seriously interested.

I was old enough to remember him, but too young to remember what made him so special; can someone fill me in?

[uk66fastback]

Johnnytheboy said:

I was old enough to remember him, but too young to remember what made him so special; can someone fill me in?

He wasn’t Neil Kinnock ...

[zygalski]

Johnnytheboy said:

catweasle said:

Garvin said:

Not quite. Reincarnate John Smith back as Labour leader and you’d have me seriously interested.

I was old enough to remember him, but too young to remember what made him so special; can someone fill me in?

He regularly made senior Tories look like unprepared idiots in debates and at the despatch box. He seemed to have a photographic memory where statistics were concerned & often tied his opponents in knots.
He often did this with a smile on his face as if to say 'why are you even bothering?'

[Derek Smith]

zygalski said:

Johnnytheboy said:

catweasle said:

Garvin said:

Not quite. Reincarnate John Smith back as Labour leader and you’d have me seriously interested.

I was old enough to remember him, but too young to remember what made him so special; can someone fill me in?

He regularly made senior Tories look like unprepared idiots in debates and at the despatch box. He seemed to have a photographic memory where statistics were concerned & often tied his opponents in knots.
He often did this with a smile on his face as if to say 'why are you even bothering?'

He seemed to be a decent person. He appeared empathetic, sympathetic and willing to go 15 rounds with anyone who disagreed with him.

He was high tax, being very critical of Thatcher's(?) reduction of income tax. He made the tory government appear self-centred and only interested in big corporations and the rich.

As someone said, he was devastating at the despatch box, although, on the negative side, a lot of it was name-calling. But apt. He was like Starmer in his mastery of facts in discussions/arguments/PMQs. Unlike Starmer, he had a certain charm. That said, he was a bit of a bruiser and if you disagreed with him, at least on TV, he went for the throat.

He was for Scottish independence, but also for a stronger UK. He never explained this dichotomy to my recollection. He was a breath of fresh air for labour.

We’ll never know what he was really like as he was never really tested. He was to the left of the party – a bit of a radical – but against the far left. Some suggested he only attacked them for reasons of electability; not much of a criticism. He changed the way the party related to the unions.

I liked him. At a time when the tories were falling apart through infighting, he unified his party, as far as any party has been. He was authoritative but with a smile. He paved the way for Blair, who moved the party more to the centre. I have no idea whether he could have got the labour party elected with his radical policies, but I doubt it would have been Blair’s massive landslide.

There’s a lot of myths about Smith. We’ve no idea what he’d have done to the country, but he’d have done it with a pleasant expression on his face.

[turbobloke]

zygalski said:

Johnnytheboy said:

catweasle said:

Garvin said:

Not quite. Reincarnate John Smith back as Labour leader and you’d have me seriously interested.

I was old enough to remember him, but too young to remember what made him so special; can someone fill me in?

He regularly made senior Tories look like unprepared idiots in debates and at the despatch box. He seemed to have a photographic memory where statistics were concerned & often tied his opponents in knots.
He often did this with a smile on his face as if to say 'why are you even bothering?'

As a QC he could be forensic but those ^ aspects, which appeal to protest-argue-stabby-finger-pointing tribal socialists are far less significant than John Smith being a reasonable centrist politician, described at times as being on the centre-right of the Labour movement, who could attract interest and votes from a wide audience - unlike today's raving loony left caricatures pushing marxism with bribes to go, capturing mainly students and activists. Inheriting a failed and despondent Labour Party post-Kinnock gave him a helpful leg-up but that's not to take anything away from what he did beyond that point, not least using his leadership position to insist that the Trade Union block vote was abolished.

[NJH]

I hope Labour have the courage to understand just how much the working class respects strength from a leader. This is indeed a make or break moment for Keir. He needs to be utterly brutal in dispatching that cancer from his party, try to be all accommodating etc. and he will just end up looking weak and directionless. The only way to get this over and done with is to use the opportunity to root out the hard left from the party, they can all go and join Galloway in his latest ego trip nonsense. It will be painful but better pain now and recover in time for the next GE rather than 4 more years of sniping, undermining and drip, drip anti-semitism from that bunch (they can't help themselves and will 100% trip up again as the right wing media will be watching them day in, day it!).

[biggbn]

Derek Smith said:

zygalski said:

Johnnytheboy said:

catweasle said:

Garvin said:

Not quite. Reincarnate John Smith back as Labour leader and you’d have me seriously interested.

I was old enough to remember him, but too young to remember what made him so special; can someone fill me in?

He regularly made senior Tories look like unprepared idiots in debates and at the despatch box. He seemed to have a photographic memory where statistics were concerned & often tied his opponents in knots.
He often did this with a smile on his face as if to say 'why are you even bothering?'

He seemed to be a decent person. He appeared empathetic, sympathetic and willing to go 15 rounds with anyone who disagreed with him.

He was high tax, being very critical of Thatcher's(?) reduction of income tax. He made the tory government appear self-centred and only interested in big corporations and the rich.

As someone said, he was devastating at the despatch box, although, on the negative side, a lot of it was name-calling. But apt. He was like Starmer in his mastery of facts in discussions/arguments/PMQs. Unlike Starmer, he had a certain charm. That said, he was a bit of a bruiser and if you disagreed with him, at least on TV, he went for the throat.

He was for Scottish independence, but also for a stronger UK. He never explained this dichotomy to my recollection. He was a breath of fresh air for labour.

We’ll never know what he was really like as he was never really tested. He was to the left of the party – a bit of a radical – but against the far left. Some suggested he only attacked them for reasons of electability; not much of a criticism. He changed the way the party related to the unions.

I liked him. At a time when the tories were falling apart through infighting, he unified his party, as far as any party has been. He was authoritative but with a smile. He paved the way for Blair, who moved the party more to the centre. I have no idea whether he could have got the labour party elected with his radical policies, but I doubt it would have been Blair’s massive landslide.

There’s a lot of myths about Smith. We’ve no idea what he’d have done to the country, but he’d have done it with a pleasant expression on his face.

Robin Cook is also much missed!

[turbobloke]

NJH said:

I hope Labour have the courage to understand just how much the working class respects strength from a leader. This is indeed a make or break moment for Keir. He needs to be utterly brutal in dispatching that cancer from his party, try to be all accommodating etc. and he will just end up looking weak and ,directionless. The only way to get this over and done with is to use the opportunity to root out the hard left from the party, they can all go and join Galloway in his latest ego trip nonsense. It will be painful but better pain now and recover in time for the next GE rather than 4 more years of sniping, undermining and drip, drip anti-semitism from that bunch (they can't help themselves and will 100% trip up again as the right wing media will be watching them day in, day it!).

Yes indeed the current unelectable mob of "who?" third- and fourth-raters aka Labour represent a sorry contrast to what Labour could look like under a new Smith, attracting decent politicians rather than hounding them out. If a Conservative party of today adopted a socially and economically damaging policy on immigration for example (not now though, given that Boris is lowering the income threshold for immigrants) then as a 'what-if' I could see myself voting for a Labour Party led by another John Smith, given also that it had the same centrist outlook across a competent shadow cabinet and continued to put the Unions and sundry Marxists back in their box.